Timing belt change: OEM or AM?

[JCH13]

Gates says their AM belts are OE spec or better...

Any reason not to believe them?

http://www.gates.com/products/autom...t-truck/timing-system/automotive-timing-belts

This is why we <3 Gates. They even sell complete timing belt kits for many car makes/models.

 

[Zorba]

Gates says their AM belts are OE spec or better...

Any reason not to believe them?

http://www.gates.com/products/autom...t-truck/timing-system/automotive-timing-belts

Go to autozone and buy the cheapest radiator cap that "Meets or exceeds OEM specifications" take it home and compare it to the OEM cap. Or if you really want to be shocked, buy the cheapest radiator that "meets or exceeds" and compare those. Then tell me whether you should trust marketing department slogans that have no legal backing.

Again, unless it went through the OEM procurement process, including inspections, there is no guarantee they are the same.

Now it is completely possible that the OEM just drop ships the Gates belts direct to the dealer and never looks at them or reviews them and I a sure some OEMs do just that, but without their drawings/specs being public it is impossible for an individual to know for a fact there was no OEM review.

 

[Jimzz]

Gates says their AM belts are OE spec or better...

Any reason not to believe them?

http://www.gates.com/products/autom...t-truck/timing-system/automotive-timing-belts

They do; but people still like to buy a part in the magical "GM", "Toyota", etc.. box as they know its better.

The same thing happens with drugs. Tylenol makes a lot of money because people buy the name, not the drug acetaminophen which can be had for less than half for the same in a store box.

 

[tamm]

SOO Might Kinda discussion LOL.

1) What year is your Highlander, by the sounds u either drive a Hybrid (06-10) or a V6 01-07. If not then your probably running a chain which requires zero maintenance.

2) Their are three types of categories:
OE=Original Equipment (stuff you can buy from a dealership)
OEM=Original Equipment MFG (stuff you can buy from anywhere basically)
AM=Aftermarket (In this you have OE quality which is some random maker builds this and states its built to the same standards as the OE part or Performance AM, which is built to exceed OE quality)

My experience IMO recommends that for a timing belt go OE or OEM as its a very critical job and you don`t want to have to keep on replacing it. Now that being said I know people are throwing around Gates, and my opinion is that gates is amazing. My car has a sepertine belt for accessories, and the OE versions and AM versions I have used tend to wear out rapidly in cold weather climates leading to the infamous squeal. Someone recommended using a gatorback, and literally its offered me twice as much life and no squeal. So yes i do recommend gator products. I don`t have any experience with the timing belt from gates.

for any job, where you want it done right the first time stick with OEM and then OE. Due note their will be differences though that dont effect performance. For instance Toyota Spark plug wires come with a new holder set for cable mangement. In addition they are labeled for indiviual cylinders. They are made by denso. When selecting the same part number from a online dealer, the wires fit and work similarly, but are not labeled, and do not come with the same holder set for cable mangement. Plus the box isnt labeled toyota lol.

If you want a performance boost on something mundane as brakes or suspension or etc go for a AM performance upgrade.

If you want to have new parts all the time go AM built to OE equality from any local MNC. Their warranties are riddick (lifetime pads or rotors). Some parts are rock solid while others really use that warranty. But again i only recommend using these parts only if you have the time and love working on your car all the time lol.

 

[michal1980]

all this talk about saving 30 dollars on what? a 600-700 dollar job?

The correct question to ask is not if an AM belt is worse then OEM, but are there any better belts that could be used even if they cost a bit more.

 

[Jimzz]

all this talk about saving 30 dollars on what? a 600-700 dollar job?

The correct question to ask is not if an AM belt is worse then OEM, but are there any better belts that could be used even if they cost a bit more.

Not to my knowledge. Gates I know has a "performance" timing belt that's blue but they state it has to be replaced at the same time as the regular belt. So I think that is more for looks or those running a open cover timing belt.

EDIT
http://www.gates.com/products/automotive/racing-performance-muscle/racing-performance-timing-belts

But as said they still say it should be replaced at OE intervals or 60k.

 

[pauldun170]

Timing belts - serious business

 

[Zorba]

Gates says their AM belts are OE spec or better...

Any reason not to believe them?

http://www.gates.com/products/autom...t-truck/timing-system/automotive-timing-belts

I know I already responded to this, but in aerospace I have seen so many "better than OEM" parts cause so much damage that phrase really scares me.

One example is an impeller for an air cycle machine (ACM). The OEM part was cast aluminum and cost like 8x what the after market part cost (pretty typical in aviation). The AM part was machined, which everyone involved honestly thought was better, the material properties were higher, tighter tolerances, etc. Any ways we started putting these impellers in every overhauled ACM, a year later one failed causing about $750k in damage. It was written off as a one-off issue. Over the next month 7 more failed, all doing about the same amount of damage. We then had to do a rush remove and replace program on every ACM we had put this part into, costing millions in labor and parts. Not to mention the OEM couldn't supply the good part fast enough so we had aircraft sitting waiting for parts.

The difference was the different aluminum alloys, between the cast and machined, had slightly different vibratory responses and the machined parts died from high cycle fatigue, even though on paper they should've been significantly better.

If all went we we would've save about 75-100k/yr using the AM parts, instead it cost us (IIRC) over $35M to correct the mistake.

They do; but people still like to buy a part in the magical "GM", "Toyota", etc.. box as they know its better.

The same thing happens with drugs. Tylenol makes a lot of money because people buy the name, not the drug acetaminophen which can be had for less than half for the same in a store box.

The difference is drugs are regulated. Therefore generic acetaminophen is the same as the acetaminophen in Tylenol. No such regulation for car parts.

 

[LTC8K6]

Any part for a part 121 aircraft would have to have gone through a certification process, though. I don't think those are quite the same.

If you knew the AM timing belt had gone through a certification process, you would have no problem using it, I would guess.

We are just talking about timing belts made by known reputable manufacturers. Manufacturers we trust.

We aren't talking about the cheapest "Looks like OEM to me!" part we could find off a white van.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I went with aftermarket belts for my Ducati. The OEM belts cost twice as much and it is generally accepted that CA Cycleworks belts are just as good if not better than the Ducati belts.

 

[tortillasoup]

At least for mitsubishi, if you get an aftermarket timing belt, don't expect it to last much longer than the service interval which is 60K miles. But if you buy OEM, I've seen them last well over 100K miles despite the 60K service interval. Just buy discounted OEM parts online, price should be close enough to aftermarket in store prices.

I buy aftermarket accessory belts though as it usually doesn't matter if they fail, so long as they don't get wrapped up around something and break something in the process of them failing.

 

[LTC8K6]

I went with aftermarket belts for my Ducati. The OEM belts cost twice as much and it is generally accepted that CA Cycleworks belts are just as good if not better than the Ducati belts.

The internet says that the DUCATI branded belts are made by Gates, and CA Cycleworks belts are made in the PRC.

So, it must be true.

 

[LTC8K6]

At least for mitsubishi, if you get an aftermarket timing belt, don't expect it to last much longer than the service interval which is 60K miles. But if you buy OEM, I've seen them last well over 100K miles despite the 60K service interval. Just buy discounted OEM parts online, price should be close enough to aftermarket in store prices.

I buy aftermarket accessory belts though as it usually doesn't matter if they fail, so long as they don't get wrapped up around something and break something in the process of them failing.

Well, who is going to go 40K past the SI on a timing belt?

Not me.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The internet says that the DUCATI branded belts are made by Gates, and CA Cycleworks belts are made in the PRC.

So, it must be true.

Most of the guys on the forums who do their own service swear by the CA Cycleworks belts. I've never heard of a problem with anyone using their belts.

 

[tamm]

Here`s some more free advice LOL:

If you really want to size up the belts or any other parts, find out first who the OEM is for that part. This will establish a baseline on what parts are a step down or a step up.

 

[pcgeek11]

Just because a company made it for the OEM doesn't mean their AM parts are the same.

For the reasons rommelrommel said, I would go OEM for my own car.

They are exactly the same. It would be stupid to re-tool to make a lesser quality belt.

 

[tortillasoup]

Well, who is going to go 40K past the SI on a timing belt?

Not me.

Some poor people who don't have much time to spare and are driving a car that is a major oil burner might do so.

 

[evident]

I have a question now to you parts experts...

I just replaced an O2 sensor on my lexus with a Denso "OE Style" O2 sensor from rockauto. everything was completely identical on it except that the O2 sensor didnt have a stamp on it that said "TOYOTA". I mean literally identical length wire, with the clips on the wire exactly where they were on the one it replaced. it was $80 on rockauto, and toyota/lexus dealer wanted $250 for the same part.

Would I be safe to assume that the part I got is equivalent to the part I replaced? in my opinion i thought so, since the OEM's for toyota O2 sensors are either Denso or NGK (NTK). Could this assumption bite me in the future, as in if i bought a denso/ngk part on rockauto it could be inferior to the part I got from my toyota/lexus dealer?

I see other parts on rock auto that are marked "OE Equivalent", "OE Type", "OE Style"... they are all kind of confusing...

 

[tortillasoup]

Yes it would be safe to assume you got OEM. That's one way I like to buy OEM parts, find out who supplied the part for your make, model and year, then get that part directly from the manufacturer of that part. Some years they use denso, others years they use NGK and sometimes they actually use both for the same year! It doesn't literally need the Toyota stamp on it to basically be OEM for a lot of parts. Belts, you'd have to be pretty certain that who ever made the OEM part before you buy that "aftermarket OEM" part vs. a duralast belt or what ever store brand that exists.

Physical characteristics with a good eye for detail should show if they're the same part or not.

 

[pcgeek11]

Working in the Mfg Field for > 20 years. We make parts for the Major Auto Makers and we make parts for "After Market" Suppliers. All of the parts come off the very same assembly lines and are exactly the same materials and parts that go into the OEM Parts. The only exception is the laser etch markings are usually different or the data matrix coding.

 

[tortillasoup]

There isn't one singular company that makes car parts, that's ridiculous. It's true there is a lot of re-branding going on but you have to prove they're the same make/brand parts, otherwise it's just guessing. I can definitely tell the quality difference between a mitsubishi belt and a duralast belt with the mitsubishi being far higher quality. Issues with low quality cooling pumps is also frequent with aftermarket shit failing early. That isn't to say there isn't good aftermarket parts but it does tend to be a crapshoot.

 

[pcgeek11]

There isn't one singular company that makes car parts, that's ridiculous. It's true there is a lot of re-branding going on but you have to prove they're the same make/brand parts, otherwise it's just guessing. I can definitely tell the quality difference between a mitsubishi belt and a duralast belt with the mitsubishi being far higher quality. Issues with low quality cooling pumps is also frequent with aftermarket shit failing early. That isn't to say there isn't good aftermarket parts but it does tend to be a crapshoot.

I don't think anyone implied that.

Lots of companies supply OEM Manufacturer Parts and Aftermarket Parts. Such as we do. They are all made to the same specifications and are tested exactly the same for OEM and Aftermarket.