Time Windows 1a - anyone with experience?

[viivo]

Picked up a pair yesterday for $75. A few marks on the outside, but inside everything looks pristine and appears to be the original philips drivers and vifa tweeters.

My problem is that I think one or more of the tweeters may be blown. I've tried listening, but even with my ear to the tower I can't locate the sound. I just know something doesn't sound right. Is there anything I can do short of prying all four out of the super hard glue?

I ask because I wonder if its just how they sound. I don't think they were used much, if at all.

It also might be my receiver, onkyo rc-260. Set up has been an ongoing process. Is it just not powerful enough? Bass hasn't been a problem, these things have huge magnets on them, but wonder if there isn't enough for four drivers and four tweeters.

 

[MrGlobe]

Let me start by saying congratulations! You have purchased a set of one of my all-time favorite speakers. They have an amazing ability to create an incredibly wide and deep sound stage. They are also great speakers for classical, acoustic, etc music.

I'm quite familiar with these speakers. I've got hands-on time with both the DCM TimeWindow 1 and the 1a. The grill cloth sock on the outside of the speaker is removable. Depending on if it is still the original, you should be able to gently slide it to the top or the bottom. This will allow you to visually inspect the drivers for obvious physical damage. You are completely correct in saying the glue is super hard, and very much so a PITA to work with. When I listen with my head very close to the speaker, I can make out the sound that each individual driver is producing. You should be able to verify which drivers are working by slowly moving your head around in front of the driver locations on the baffles. After that, I would recommend removing the nut from the bottom of the speakers, as there is a long threaded rod that runs down the center of the TimeWindow 1a that holds the top and bottom plates on. With the nut and threaded rod removed you should be able to remove the end caps and inspect the crossover for damage. You should also be able to look at the wiring for the drivers from the rear with the end caps off.

I have seen a few threads about purchasing new replacement drivers, I know there are some close replacements to be had on the internet. There are also quite a few people out there with TimeWindows that are too rough or too destroyed to listen to, so you might get lucky and find someone parting out a set on ePrey.

Let me know if you have any questions about how to set them up. Depending on your room size and layout, as well as the type of music you listen to, the ideal room positioning varies.

Driven with good, clean power these speakers can produce amazing sound. Listening to Adele or Diana Krall on a set of TimeWindows is nothing short of breathtaking.

EDIT: To address your concerns about the Onk receiver, I have used quite a few different receivers and amps with the TimeWindows. They definitely respond best to clean power, but I think your Onkyo receiver should be putting out more than enough in 2 channel operation for the TimeWindows to sing. The TimeWindows 1a's (if my memory is correct) are 89db/w sensitive, which means that they aren't going to be nearly as efficient as a set of Klipsch speakers for instance. I find that 80w+ is enough to get them to perform great. I would recommend that you make sure your receiver is set for 2 channel operation, to give as much headroom to the front L/R amp sections as possible. Additionally, depending on if you are using a subwoofer or not, you should set the L/R to receive a full range signal (set the L/R to Large). If you are able to set the receiver to a 'Pure Direct' mode or something equivalent, that would help.

 

[viivo]

Thanks for the very detailed reply and offer of assistance.

The room is fairly small, the speakers are in corners about 8 feet apart with the protruding edge on the front pointed toward the listening position, and to be honest I haven't liked the sound too much yet which I'm sure is a position problem
Also, these things can go quite low. I watched a movie and felt the low end more than I heard it, which I suppose is good.

Edit: The receiver specs say for two channels "100 watts minimum, 20hz-20khz 8 ohms, 0.07 thd, two channels driven" so I would think that should be enough, but I know it's obviously not the most powerful seeing that it's just a receiver.

For music, I listen to orchestral, blues, jazz. A lot of brass/horns, like Louie Armstrong. I'm looking forward to making them sound even better.

I'm also on a phone so I feel your pain, and really appreciate the help.

 

[MrGlobe]

The majority of my experience with TimeWindows has been in a 12'x12' room. I find they sound best positioned in an almost equilateral triangle with the listening position. I would recommend bringing them out of the corners, they should be at least a foot out from the wall behind them, and hopefully 6" or more out from the side walls. I have had the best experience with them placed directly facing the listener, with a very slight toe-in. To be clear, the corner in the baffle (the edge running vertical between the two sets of drivers) should be facing almost directly out, so the speakers (if thought of as 'arrows') would be 'pointing' to a spot that is a few feet behind the listener. I will find a picture as an example online when I am not on a phone.

 

[MrGlobe]

http://i55.tinypic.com/1zzkncy.jpg

I'd give them a try positioned similar to this picture, with the distance between the speakers being roughly equal to the distance between your ears and either speaker. Then I'd recommend moving them wider/narrower and closer/further as well as playing with toe-in until you get a seamless soundstage in front of you. A good way to check is to listen to a CD with strong vocals at centerstage. You can adjust the speakers until it sounds like the singing is directly centered between the 2 towers. You'll be amazed at their ability to create a huge soundstage with precise imaging. I have read a few recommendations to raise them up on stands, anywhere from 6"-12" off the ground depending on how high your listening position is. I have used cinder blocks as stands with good results. It'd be awesome to hear your listening impressions, or what you find out about the driver situation.

Great choices in music too, I have really enjoyed a variety of Jazz on these speakers as well as classical and orchestral selections. Most acoustic CDs sound awesome as well, Jack Johnson/Bon Iver style music is very well presented by the TimeWindows. Other artist's that have sounded good through the TimeWindows would be Coldplay, The Postal Service, The Early Novemeber, etc. Honestly, I have been amazed on a number of occasions at the TimeWindow's ability to be extremely unoffensive. They are a smooth speaker that you can listen to for hours on end, they are not fatiguing what-so-ever. The largest downfall of the TimeWindows that I have found so far is their inaccuracy during extremely quick or dynamic tracks. Because they are so smooth, when you listen to music like System of a Down you lose alot of the clarity and resolution in the extended high's and low's that you would notice on a floorstander of a different design. These speakers image great and offer huge, room filling sound.

 

[viivo]

Thanks. I'll try some different positions and update with my impressions.

As for the drivers, they looked fine from what I could see after removing the end cap, but I recall reading that they are poly. They look like treated paper from what I saw. Surrounds appeared to be rubber.

Also, I assume the cloth in that picture isn't original? Mine are black and glued to the top and bottom. I noticed too that the end caps are warped a little and not sealing completely. How much would this affect the sound?

Edit: some preliminary impressions. I moved them closer together and angled them as in the picture and the difference is amazing. I see now that what I'd been missing before was the center image. I can now locate sound much better, and the middle is just beautiful, like the speakers aren't even there. Now of course I'll probably spend most of my free time tweaking position and will try the stands.

 

[MrGlobe]

I'd agree, I don't think the grill cover on those TimeWindows is original. The surrounds should be synthetic, so you shouldn't have to worry about re-foaming them. That's awesome that the sound is improved, there are definitely one of those speakers you can spend hours tweaking. I've found quite a few different positions that seem to sound great, don't be afraid to move them a few feet all directions to find out where they work the best.

Hopefully you get them setup and get to enjoy some serious music. I've used TimeWindows in surround sound setup as well, and they did a very good job as mains, surrounds, and with TimeWindows all around.

If you ever happen upon a second pair for a good price, I'd recommend snagging them. Some of the best sound I've heard so far has been stacked TimeWindow 1a's. You just have to mirror-stack the top pair, so they are upside down on top of the first pair. This keeps the tweeters closer together at ear level. Also, 2 pairs would allow you to do a 5.1 surround setup with the addition of a center and a sub.

 

[viivo]

Just one more question. Would it be worth the time to replace some components in the crossovers with more modern electronics? Would I just have to worry about the capacitors? I read they are the electrolyte type that can dry up and fail. But I know very little about that, just that I could replace them if needed.

I would love to find another pair. These sat in a used electronics store for years, and I never paid them any attention because I thought they were Bose. Will probably check out DCM's new stuff since prices aren't bad. Thanks again for all the help

 

[MrGlobe]

I think it would definitely be worth looking into updating the crossovers. They are right about that age where stuff will start to fail. I have very little experience soldering, but I have read more than a few stories of people re-capping vintage speaker's crossovers with great success in just about ever case. One good place to look for info would be AudioKarma.org. They have some good info on a huge range of vintage electronics.

I don't know much about DCM's modern offerings, but there are quite a few vintage models that are thought highly of. The TimeWindow series had quite a few models, with the TimeWindow 7 generally thought of as the pinnacle. There is also the great TimeFrame lineup. The TimeFrame speakers are more similar in shape to conventional speakers, they are vertical rectangles with the same black grill cloth. They are very thin, however, much like stats/planar speakers. Like the TimeWindow, the TimeFrames feature wooden endcaps. I believe the TimeFrame 1000 is on the upper end of the series, though it may not be the TOTL. There was also the TimeFrame 350, 400 and 600. I have also heard about the DCM CX series, I know there is a CX-17 and a CX-27. The DCM SurroundScape was an interesting powered-tower design, never heard them or any opinions on their sound though.

Good luck with the TimeWindows, let me know if you end up doing some updating as I would be interested in doing the same.

 

[viivo]

I'll definitely be upgrading the crossovers. Shouldn't be difficult once I find the appropriate replacement caps. Then I could do a write up or do yours some time if you'd like.

Right now I'm in the process of sanding the end caps, then stain and varnish. Also thinking about either removing the cloth and veneering the enclosure or leaving the burgundy wrap exposed (what is that anyway, some sort of dampening material?) Too bad the drivers are so unattractive, would make the choice to leave them exposed easier. And those flaps covering part of them, ugh. No idea how those are affecting the sound.

I know they are nowhere near the best speakers I could get, or worth the time for all this, but for my setup they are great and they just look nice. Thanks again, you've renewed my interest in audio and speaker design.

 

[wzort]

Viivo...great deal for $75.I spent a lot more on mine.I am going to go into them and replace the caps in the crossovers. I will try and post photos.Now here is an idea for y'all. I'm using mine as computer speakers....aka near field monitors,They sit upside down about 4.5 feet apart, angled in. I have a high quality Parasound DA converter and preamp, and an SAE amp. Good Lord to these things sound great. More later, when I get up the nerve to tear into them.

 

[EvilYoda]

Interesting necro...I was just going to say that I helped move a pair of DCM Time Frame TF500 yesterday.

 

[wasabimofo]

I realize this is a very old thread but figured I would add for posterity's sake. I recently moved a pair of DCM Time Window 1a speakers from the home I grew up in to my current home when we sold the old house. I purchased them new in the mid 80s. These are tremendous speakers, but placement is absolutely key. I first tried them in my living room (where I currently have a set of Energy RC50 floor standers) and they were very disappointing. I thought something might be wrong with them as they sounded flat and the Energy speakers blew them away. I put the Time Windows in a closet thinking maybe I would use them some day in another room. Light bulb went off a year later and I decided to set up a system in my garage (best idea ever). Hooked them up to a 120 wpc Denon and they sounded pretty good - had them positioned like I would normally maybe 8 feet apart. THEN I MOVED THEM AND EVERYTHING HAPPENED. These speakers need to be placed far apart and near a side wall - no question. I now have them positioned about 15 feet apart and three feet in from the side walls of my garage and they are the best sounding speakers I have ever heard. The clarity and sound stage are simply brilliant. People come to my house just to hear them (in my freaking garage!). Moral of the story - if you have the right spot these speakers will sing. If you don't I would look at a more traditional speaker design.