Time to replace my car - thoughts?

[IndyColtsFan]

The time has come to replace my legendary (to me, at least ) 2001 Grand Prix. To give some background, I bought the car new in 2001 and have driven it ever since. Yeah, it has had a few repairs over the years but has been rock solid otherwise and the engine still has punch at 198,000 miles.

However, a few issues have appeared and the expense to repair them (I'm not capable of doing the work) is to the point where that money would be a good chunk of a decent down payment. That, and while changing a tire a few weeks ago, I noticed that the wheel wells are starting to develop rust. So, as a result, I'd like to purchase a new car in the next one or two months, which I'm hoping means I'll catch some good deals on 2016 models.

Initially, I had intended to go with a utilitarian car as a replacement (Honda, Kia, Chevy), but I started thinking about buying a nicer car (BMW 4 series, Lexus RC, Cadillac ATS) to replace it. I'm not a flashy guy and a Honda or Chevy would be fine for me, but I'll be 46 this year and thought that maybe it would be nice to have a nicer car since, hopefully, this will be the next to last car I'll ever own and this is the time to splurge.

My main concern is reliability - my expectation is that my next car will last 10 years (minimum) with minimal repairs. Of the "nicer" car list, the only brand I have faith will last that long is the Lexus - please, correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, here are a few thoughts/parameters and I'd appreciate thoughts and recommendations:

1. My philosophy is to buy new and drive the car into the ground. I'm not averse to considering a certified pre-owned car, but the savings over a new have to be significant - saving only $2K or $3K isn't worth it IMO.
2. I am eligible for a GM discount, since my father was a GM employee. On the higher-end models, that discount is significant but I've heard mixed reports on the ATS' reliability.
3. I want this car to last 10 years, minimum. I understand the need for usual maintenance as the miles increase (belt replacements, brakes, tires, etc) and that other components sometimes fail (pumps, alternators), but I'd like to minimize those costs. That is one reason I steered away from BMW after initially considering them - I've heard that once the warranty and maintenance periods expire, they seem to start having issues which are very expensive to fix.
4. I'll drive 250-300 miles per week on average, and I live in Indiana, meaning we can have lots of snow and ice.
5. Budget - I could go to $60K if I had to, but I'm not opposed to being cheap and going with a $25K car either if it is the best fit.

So, with those considerations in mind, which car in each class (luxury and "utilitarian") would you recommend? Cars I've considered:

"Luxury"
1. BMW 4 series (specifically, 435i xDrive)
2. Lexus (specifically, the RC 350 F sport AWD, but open to others)
3. Cadillac ATS AWD

"Utilitarian"
1. Chevy Impala
2. Chevy Malibu
3. Honda Accord
4. Kia (various models)

Thoughts?

 

[SearchMaster]

How important are performance vs. features vs. luxury? I think Ford has a couple of cars that might fit your criteria also - Fusion Sport or SHO, and Chevy has the SS which is a (huge) step up from the Impala or Malibu.

From your lists, I personally *love* the RC in the luxury list and the Accord from your Utilitarian list. It'll never turn heads but the Honda will serve you well and do everything very competently for years to come. But you sound like you're ready to reward yourself a little bit, and since you're not in a hurry, why not drive them all and see which one just feels right?

Keep in mind that the cars in your luxury list are likely to come with sporty performance tires and you might have to get a second set of wheels and tires for winter. There's no use handicapping them with all-seasons IMO.

 

[vi edit]

Not that it helps, but I drove next to an RC 350 AWD all the way into work this morning. It's a really nice looking car. I would love to get some seat time in it and see how it really feels and if it's "just soft enough" to be comfortable as a daily driver.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

How important are performance vs. features vs. luxury? I think Ford has a couple of cars that might fit your criteria also - Fusion Sport or SHO, and Chevy has the SS which is a (huge) step up from the Impala or Malibu.

From your lists, I personally *love* the RC in the luxury list and the Accord from your Utilitarian list. It'll never turn heads but the Honda will serve you well and do everything very competently for years to come. But you sound like you're ready to reward yourself a little bit, and since you're not in a hurry, why not drive them all and see which one just feels right?

Keep in mind that the cars in your luxury list are likely to come with sporty performance tires and you might have to get a second set of wheels and tires for winter. There's no use handicapping them with all-seasons IMO.

Yeah, the SS is the successor to the Pontiac G8, which merged the Grand Prix and Bonneville platforms. I have looked at it, but decided it was probably not something I wanted.

In terms of performance vs luxury vs features, that's a very good question and one I'm struggling with. I want something that has some punch and decent acceleration but isn't super minimalistic in terms of amenities. Let me think the question over a little more and maybe post some additional thoughts a little later.

 

[Yuriman]

I terms of reliability, German cars tend to come in around the bottom, and Lexus is pretty consistently at the top, followed by Honda/Acura.

You drive enough miles that a Hybrid's battery would stay healthy, and not all hybrids are slow/awful to drive, so you might consider one of Honda's or Toyota's more sporty hybrids. The Accord hybrid, for instance, has always impressed me - it has a 166HP electric motor (224ft-lbs of torque) combined with a 141HP 4 cylinder, and is rated for 45 highway / 50 city. It can drive 13 miles on battery alone, plugged in and charged at home, and goes to 60 in around 7 seconds - which isn't screaming, but it isn't a Prius either, and is pretty great for a car as large as it is that gets 50mpg around town.

Review here: http://www.hybridcars.com/2015-honda-accord-hybrid-review-video/

Best answer is to sit in and drive a bunch of cars, and see what feels best, but if I could pick a sub-$35,000 car to be gifted right now, it would probably be the Accord hybrid.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What about opinions on the ATS, Impala, and Malibu? My discount is pretty significant on some models.

 

[deathBOB]

I say RC. Good review here: http://youtu.be/y39cugr0GtQ

ATS is small inside and I found it to be flashy instead of actually luxurious.

You only live once, don't get an economy car.

 

[PricklyPete]

What about opinions on the ATS, Impala, and Malibu? My discount is pretty significant on some models.

The ATS drives pretty well if you get the 6 cylinder auto. I haven't been in the AWD, but I assume it is nice. Personally if I were going to splurge, I would jump to a base AWD CTS. I was MUCH more impressed with it.

The Impala is actually quite nice for what you pay. Purely a cruiser with no sporting intentions...but a really good cruiser with good amenities. If you would even remotely consider a Toyota Avalon, the Impala is worth a look with your discount.

I would give an SS a try. To me it is a sleeper if you want something fun. Not showy at all, lots of fun to drive, plenty of room, reasonably appointed. An SS or a CTS would be my choice given your GM discount. Both are solidly engineered cars.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The ATS drives pretty well if you get the 6 cylinder auto. I haven't been in the AWD, but I assume it is nice. Personally if I were going to splurge, I would jump to a base AWD CTS. I was MUCH more impressed with it.

The Impala is actually quite nice for what you pay. Purely a cruiser with no sporting intentions...but a really good cruiser with good amenities. If you would even remotely consider a Toyota Avalon, the Impala is worth a look with your discount.

I would give an SS a try. To me it is a sleeper if you want something fun. Not showy at all, lots of fun to drive, plenty of room, reasonably appointed. An SS or a CTS would be my choice given your GM discount. Both are solidly engineered cars.

Cool, thanks. Maybe I will give the SS a test drive. To be honest, I think the Impala is a great looking car and it seems to get glowing reviews, so it is high on my list. I was originally targeting the ATS over the CTS because I was leaning towards a coupe (which obviously is a requirement the Impala wouldn't meet), but maybe I should look at the CTS too. I expect the discount on a CTS would be significant.

 

[PricklyPete]

Cool, thanks. Maybe I will give the SS a test drive. To be honest, I think the Impala is a great looking car and it seems to get glowing reviews, so it is high on my list. I was originally targeting the ATS over the CTS because I was leaning towards a coupe (which obviously is a requirement the Impala wouldn't meet), but maybe I should look at the CTS too. I expect the discount on a CTS would be significant.

For a great highway cruiser, a well appointed Impala is a great car. Not exciting to drive, but a really competent car.

I really feel like GM out did themselves with the CTS. It is a shame it is not selling better. Being that you don't mind splurging, I would really give it a test drive...I think you will really enjoy it.

Would love to hear your impressions after a test drive of the various cars.

 

[NutBucket]

How about a CTS? You could go for the 420hp V-Sport model

 

[Subyman]

Top Gear hated the RC, but for reasons you'd probably never experience haha.

From what I'm reading, it doesn't seem like you are a super big car guy. You drove a Grand Prix for 15 years and seem like you'd be happy with a 25-35k car. I really don't see a huge reason to splurge. Higher end cars aren't more reliable and they are more expensive to repair over time. Lower end cars typically share all the features of higher end cars these days, especially tech features.

The only reasons to go higher end is for vanity, performance, and comfort. You've got to ask yourself if doubling the price of the car is worth those things, or if the car is just a nice way to get to the things you really want to do.

Just think of all the other projects or vacations you could do with that 20-30k savings from buying a lower end car. Just something to think about.

As for lower end cars, the Accord is a great option. My family has a Cruze and I've been disappointed by the reliability of the car, so I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the Malibu.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Top Gear hated the RC, but for reasons you'd probably never experience haha.

From what I'm reading, it doesn't seem like you are a super big car guy. You drove a Grand Prix for 15 years and seem like you'd be happy with a 25-35k car. I really don't see a huge reason to splurge. Higher end cars aren't more reliable and they are more expensive to repair over time. Lower end cars typically share all the features of higher end cars these days, especially tech features.

The only reasons to go higher end is for vanity, performance, and comfort. You've got to ask yourself if doubling the price of the car is worth those things, or if the car is just a nice way to get to the things you really want to do.

Just think of all the other projects or vacations you could do with that 20-30k savings from buying a lower end car. Just something to think about.

As for lower end cars, the Accord is a great option. My family has a Cruze and I've been disappointed by the reliability of the car, so I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the Malibu.

Thanks, you bring up a lot of good points. We do love taking nice vacations and I would rather spend money on those (and house projects) than a car. To me, a loaded Impala looks really good and has many of the same features as the higher-end cars but $20K-$30K less. Yeah, the interior may not be as nice but as you said, I'm not a super big car guy and it is probably fine for me.

As a compromise between the low end and high end, I am considering the Buick Lacrosse but if I went that route, I'd want to wait for the 2017 refresh because it is far superior to the current Lacrosse and the interior looks super impressive. The problem is that I am not sure if my Grand Prix will make it another 4 months or so.

FWIW, my wife has a 2014 CR-V and we are really impressed with it, so if I did decide to stray from GM and not go high-end, it would probably be Honda.

 

[PricklyPete]

Thanks, you bring up a lot of good points. We do love taking nice vacations and I would rather spend money on those (and house projects) than a car. To me, a loaded Impala looks really good and has many of the same features as the higher-end cars but $20K-$30K less. Yeah, the interior may not be as nice but as you said, I'm not a super big car guy and it is probably fine for me.

As a compromise between the low end and high end, I am considering the Buick Lacrosse but if I went that route, I'd want to wait for the 2017 refresh because it is far superior to the current Lacrosse and the interior looks super impressive. The problem is that I am not sure if my Grand Prix will make it another 4 months or so.

FWIW, my wife has a 2014 CR-V and we are really impressed with it, so if I did decide to stray from GM and not go high-end, it would probably be Honda.

I think the Impala sounds like a perfect car for you. If you do go the Lacrosse route, definitely wait for the next iteration. In my opinion, the Impala is nicer than the current Lacrosse.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I think the Impala sounds like a perfect car for you. If you do go the Lacrosse route, definitely wait for the next iteration. In my opinion, the Impala is nicer than the current Lacrosse.

Yeah, I think the Impala is a beautiful car so I think that may be the solution. I just need to get my GM discount reactivated (probably still a few weeks away) and then I'll buy one. Heck, if the GM discount takes longer than expected to get set back up, the 2017 Lacrosse may be an option.

 

[nOOky]

My only suggestion would be to buy what you really want and what you enjoy looking at and getting into and driving. To that end, don't be afraid to drive as many vehicles as you can to find out what you really want.

I ended up buying a totally different vehicle this January than what I had. I had a Honda CR-V, which was totally reliable, solid, but ultimately very boring.

I went looking for a Lincoln MKX. I also drove a Ford Edge Sport, and ended up with that because it was well equipped, and that V6 just put it over the edge. I still think it's the best looking car in the lot when I head out to leave work for the day, and I think that's what was missing from the Honda. I would recommend you try to find the vehicle that makes you feel like that, regardless of the opinions of your friends, you're the one that will be driving it everyday.

 

[nk215]

If you enjoy your time in your car then you should gear toward luxurious/powerful BMW 435i.

If you see your car just as a way to get from A-B then save the money and get an Accord.

I would recommend split the different and settle for a Toyota Avalon. The V6 engine in the Avalon is very reliable. In size, it sits between Accord and Impala.

I can’t recommend Chevy Impala mostly because I didn’t have good experience with American made car in the past. They improved significantly since then (so I heard) but I am happy with where I am at so there are no reason to re-experiment.

You should take note that the Impala is not as fuel efficient as an Accord. It’s around the Avalon level.

You are spending almost 2 hrs/day in a car.

I don't think BMW is realistic, it'll be expensive to keept 10+ years at 250-300 miles/week. Basic stuffs such as tires/brake/oil/insurance are more expensive in a BMW.

Test drive the top 3.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you enjoy your time in your car then you should gear toward luxurious/powerful BMW 435i.

If you see your car just as a way to get from A-B then save the money and get an Accord.

I would recommend split the different and settle for a Toyota Avalon. The V6 engine in the Avalon is very reliable. In size, it sits between Accord and Impala.

I can’t recommend Chevy Impala mostly because I didn’t have good experience with American made car in the past. They improved significantly since then (so I heard) but I am happy with where I am at so there are no reason to re-experiment.

You should take note that the Impala is not as fuel efficient as an Accord. It’s around the Avalon level.

You are spending almost 2 hrs/day in a car.

I don't think BMW is realistic, it'll be expensive to keept 10+ years at 250-300 miles/week. Basic stuffs such as tires/brake/oil/insurance are more expensive in a BMW.

Test drive the top 3.

Yes, that's why I eliminated BMW - the long-term reliability isn't there. At this stage if I went luxury, it would be Lexus or Cadillac but I also have reliability concerns with Cadillac over the long term. There's no question that the 435i is my favorite car of the bunch, but again, reliability and maintenance costs are just out of bounds IMO.

Since 1996, I've owned 2 GM cars - both new (96 Cavalier, 2001 Grand Prix). There were a couple of issues with the Grand Prix that pissed me off, but all-in-all, I've been happy with GM and in truth, I think the issues I had with the Grand Prix were more due to an incompetent service department than anything else. Maybe that's luck, or maybe that's because I remember my dad having issues with GM cars in the 80s and seeing the vast improvement since then. Both cars (the 96 Cav and the 2001 GP) made it to near 200K miles IIRC.

I like Honda and my wife's CRV is nice, especially given what she paid. I definitely am not opposed to Honda, but it is hard throwing away a few thousand dollars that the GM discount gives me.

 

[NutBucket]

Is the GM discount a fixed discount from MSRP? Just wondering since one can usually get pretty good price (compared to MSRP) just through negotiating.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Is the GM discount a fixed discount from MSRP? Just wondering since one can usually get pretty good price (compared to MSRP) just through negotiating.

Fixed discount from MSRP. A few months ago I spec'ed out a loaded ATS on the employee site and it was a $6K discount.

 

[SearchMaster]

Since 1996, I've owned 2 GM cars - both new (96 Cavalier, 2001 Grand Prix). There were a couple of issues with the Grand Prix that pissed me off, but all-in-all, I've been happy with GM and in truth, I think the issues I had with the Grand Prix were more due to an incompetent service department than anything else. Maybe that's luck, or maybe that's because I remember my dad having issues with GM cars in the 80s and seeing the vast improvement since then. Both cars (the 96 Cav and the 2001 GP) made it to near 200K miles IIRC.

Yeah, all the US automakers have made HUGE strides in the last 20 years. I'm still not sold on the Chrysler/Fiat marriage but Chrysler was so bad 20 years ago they had nowhere to go but up. All cars are going to have components fail from time to time but 200K out of the major ones is more common than rare and that's 7-15 years for most people.

 

[nOOky]

Fixed discount from MSRP. A few months ago I spec'ed out a loaded ATS on the employee site and it was a $6K discount.

If you're a good negotiator and you shop around you may be able to get a vehicle at enough of a discount that you may end up paying close to what the GM discount is on an equivalent brand anyway. Unless it's a vehicle that's in high demand and people are paying close to sticker you should be able to get a deal, I think demand is soft right now? New 2016's may be different though.

 

[boomerang]

If you're considering something from the Cadillac family, I think you'd be better served by looking at the Buick lineup.

I had four Buick's in a row and decided to go with a CTS and I regret it very much. Not happy with the ride, not happy with the seats, overall not happy and there is 14 months left on the lease.

Guess what platform the ATS is built on? Or, a better way to word it would be guess what platform the CTS is built on? The same as the ATS. The Cadillac brand is promoted as having "Sport Suspension" which may be something you're looking for. But in a short test drive when I was all gaga about the technology in front of me I didn't pick up on the differences in the ride quality between it and the Buick I had previously. Michigan roads are in poor shape and I sometimes feel like I'm in a pickup truck back when they rode like, well, pickup trucks. On a 2K roundtrip to Virginia and back my wife had back pain for two days afterwards coming and going because she couldn't find a comfortable setting on the seats.

But, we're all different and it all may just very well be your cup of tea. See if you can finagle an extended test drive would be my advice. If you want to keep it that long, make sure you're going to be happy with it. And don't forget the maintenance. Routine maintenance over the long haul you plan on keeping it won't be cheap. You might have a stroke when you find out how much struts will run for an ATS/CTS.

You'll have all the luxury you need with a Buick and for less cost all the way around.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you're considering something from the Cadillac family, I think you'd be better served by looking at the Buick lineup.

I had four Buick's in a row and decided to go with a CTS and I regret it very much. Not happy with the ride, not happy with the seats, overall not happy and there is 14 months left on the lease.

Guess what platform the ATS is built on? Or, a better way to word it would be guess what platform the CTS is built on? The same as the ATS. The Cadillac brand is promoted as having "Sport Suspension" which may be something you're looking for. But in a short test drive when I was all gaga about the technology in front of me I didn't pick up on the differences in the ride quality between it and the Buick I had previously. Michigan roads are in poor shape and I sometimes feel like I'm in a pickup truck back when they rode like, well, pickup trucks. On a 2K roundtrip to Virginia and back my wife had back pain for two days afterwards coming and going because she couldn't find a comfortable setting on the seats.

But, we're all different and it all may just very well be your cup of tea. See if you can finagle an extended test drive would be my advice. If you want to keep it that long, make sure you're going to be happy with it. And don't forget the maintenance. Routine maintenance over the long haul you plan on keeping it won't be cheap. You might have a stroke when you find out how much struts will run for an ATS/CTS.

You'll have all the luxury you need with a Buick and for less cost all the way around.

Yeah, the 2017 Buick Lacrosse looks incredible and might be my preferred option, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to actually buy one. Buick is also top tier in reliability, which meets my other goals.

 

[boomerang]

Yeah, the 2017 Buick Lacrosse looks incredible and might be my preferred option, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to actually buy one. Buick is also top tier in reliability, which meets my other goals.

We lease so keep that in mind when I relate this. I had a Lucerne, then two Lacrosse's and right before the CTS I had a Regal. Liked them all pretty much equally from a ride and quietness standpoint. Every bit as quiet as the CTS.