Time to get an e-bike? 30% tax credit through BBB plan.

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BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
I've had one for about 3 years now, since a lot of stores are close and I live in FL it gets used a lot, many trips you only need a few things, last year I did 475 miles on mine, that's a lot of short trips my car didn't have to make and short trips are horrible for your car (unless it's electric).
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
I've had one for about 3 years now, since a lot of stores are close and I live in FL it gets used a lot, many trips you only need a few things, last year I did 475 miles on mine, that's a lot of short trips my car didn't have to make and short trips are horrible for your car (unless it's electric).

That's fantastic. You are a part of the solution. Imagine if a lot more people did that, the benefits to society would be phenomenal.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,209
12,529
136
When he's not doing your Mom....


There, Boomer, saved you the effort.

:p

If only YOUR mom would save me the effort...she's a randy old broad.
aag.thumb.gif
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,209
12,529
136
That's fantastic. You are a part of the solution. Imagine if a lot more people did that, the benefits to society would be phenomenal.

We have two businesses here that rent e-bikes to the tourists. $20/hr, IIRC. During the touristy months, those fckn things are everywhere...and the majority of them ignore the simple things...like stop signs, yield signs, crosswalks, speed limits, (80% of the town is posted 25 mph)
 

Denly

Golden Member
May 14, 2011
1,433
229
106
Idk.... in New Haven if there was anything far short of an armed guard standing over those expensive electric bikes with their valuable and easily accessible batteries constantly I'd say they would 100% get fvcked with.

This. That's why I am not interested in ebike, it is too expensive to park on a rack. What I am interested in is an escooter in my trunk and somehow diy a backpack strip to carry on the back if needed.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
Idk.... in New Haven if there was anything far short of an armed guard standing over those expensive electric bikes with their valuable and easily accessible batteries constantly I'd say they would 100% get fvcked with.
It will be secure enclosed parking
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
It will be secure enclosed parking


I think it would have to be at a minimum ... and I'm not sure that would be sufficient considering how often locked cars with alarms in "secure" areas get robbed.

To be clear this has nothing to do with E-bikes specifically its the "expensive & easy to steal" factor. I wouldn't leave an expensive road bicycle locked to a rack out of my sight either.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,459
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
Ideally workplaces should just allow people to bring their bikes in. I know that's what I would do and hopefully they would not say anything. Though if everyone started to do it I can see it being a bit of an issue I guess. In my city a bike left outside does not last more than an hour before it's stolen. If you use a lock that they can't cut through, they'll just dismantle the bike and leave the frame there.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,457
12,991
146
Why is it worthless if it is refundable?
Was already explained, but yeah...does no good for anyone not filing federal taxes to get the credit for it.
We have two businesses here that rent e-bikes to the tourists. $20/hr, IIRC. During the touristy months, those fckn things are everywhere...and the majority of them ignore the simple things...like stop signs, yield signs, crosswalks, speed limits, (80% of the town is posted 25 mph)
FWIW, regular bikers can be the same way- ignoring rules and laws of the road, throwing basic courtesies to the wind, and being general assholes. E-bikes just make it more dangerous to act that way, since it takes little effort to haul serious ass on some of them.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
I think it would have to be at a minimum ... and I'm not sure that would be sufficient considering how often locked cars with alarms in "secure" areas get robbed.

To be clear this has nothing to do with E-bikes specifically its the "expensive & easy to steal" factor. I wouldn't leave an expensive road bicycle locked to a rack out of my sight either.

It's secure. Yes and for all bikes.

I have my nice gravel/urban bike where I bought the frame and wheels and parts and had a shop assemble it. It's insured but it would cost me 3K to replace wihtout insurance. I never leave that locked up out of sight for more than a couple minutes. I take my much more generic looking front basket bike and that I'll leave locked outside for an hour or two or what not, anything but overnight.

Oonee bike parking is what NYC and NJ are getting, you can see the system at the link:

 
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BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
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126
That's fantastic. You are a part of the solution. Imagine if a lot more people did that, the benefits to society would be phenomenal.
It comes with some risk FL has a horrible record for bike accidents and anywhere nowadays people are texting/Facebook/Tictok while driving, you have to be really careful and always try and leave an escape route. That being said you see a lot more riding a bike, small shops you just whiz by in a car, last week I spotted a place selling meat pies, color me intrigued.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
It comes with some risk FL has a horrible record for bike accidents and anywhere nowadays people are texting/Facebook/Tictok while driving, you have to be really careful and always try and leave an escape route. That being said you see a lot more riding a bike, small shops you just whiz by in a car, last week I spotted a place selling meat pies, color me intrigued.
This is why good bike infrastructure needs to be built. A number of people more would ride if they could do it safely. Unfortunately in many parts of the country, bike infrastructure is pretty much communist to car culture folks, especially in red areas. Up here we got plenty of anti cyclists, but we still get lots of bike infrastructure anyway because at the end of the day it's good policy. I mean when they want to put in protected bike lanes in numerous parts of the city a lot of business owners go NIMBY. Usually they have no point, people just hate change and only see cars as viable transport.

The bike is indeed the best way to explore many areas. You can cover lots of ground, still be immersed in your surroundings, stop on a dime and check it out. Walking is slow, cars and mass transit you are cocooned. David Byrne wrote a book called the bicycle diaries. He took a bike with him when the talking heads were touring because it was the best way to explore the cities they were performing at.

I'd be on my bike now heading to NYC but it's raining, so I'm on a bus as we speak. I'd prefer not to be tied to the bus schedule though, weather permitting.
 
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mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,359
1,555
126
I sometimes toy with the idea of getting an electric "fat bike" for commuting instead of using the truck. They work year round due to bigger tires that can manage the snow.

I'd want to still be able to pedal, but the idea is I could use electric function to go to work so I'm not showing up all sweaty, then I can pedal back home to actually get a work out at same time.

Have you ever paused and looked at what a filthy mess cars are, that were driven on snowy streets? I'd hardly think being sweaty would be as bad as being coated in gray salt grime from head to toe, let alone the dangers from loss of traction. Fat bike tires with knobs can dig their way through snow but are terrible for ice. Smoother tires with lots of sipes are better for ice but forget about unplowed snow. 4 wheel vehicles can get away with this a lot more because loss of traction on one wheel doesn't result in loss of balance, and no type of tire is going to get your through big chunky piles of half-ice pushed into your path by a plow.

I suppose less of that matters if you have a dedicated bike lane set aside from the street lane, but suspect it's still going to be close enough to be splattered by the salty gray grime.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,359
1,555
126
I've had one for about 3 years now, since a lot of stores are close and I live in FL it gets used a lot, many trips you only need a few things, last year I did 475 miles on mine, that's a lot of short trips my car didn't have to make and short trips are horrible for your car (unless it's electric).

That's kind of an urban myth, short trips being so bad. Yes your vehicle won't last as many miles but you also won't be putting on nearly as many miles if everything is so nearby.

Short trips are bad is more of a comparison of 3 x 2 mile trips versus 1 x 6 mile trip, while the wear is LESS if you take 1 x 2 mile trip opposed to 1 x 10 mile trip, as long as you keep in mind that the oil change interval should be shorter to account for not cooking off water vapor (or in some modern engines, fuel dilution). The main thing is, you can't then run some lofty high mileage interval between oil changes and instead should stick to a 1-2 year change interval regardless of mileage unless there's practically no miles driven (show car or RV in storage).

My oldest vehicle isn't my daily commuter and I short trip all the time (sometimes just to keep its fluids flowing, sitting too long at a time isn't ideal for vehicles either) and have no ill effects from it, but I only put up to 2 thousand miles on it a year so ultimately it will die from rusting before anything else, because it's also the one I use in the worst of winter, because it's my oldest, lowest value vehicle that sacrifices itself for the good of the rest. Even then, shorter trips mean less exposure to salted roads than if destinations were further away, fewer encounters with other vehicles within that shorter distance to collide with and total it.

Living close to everything you need ROCKS, but isn't a reason to suffer riding a bicycle with the thought that it's bad on a car. If you want to ride a bike and it's safe enough, have at it, but I don't buy the conclusion in the linked article study that we can magically expect a 15% shift to ebike riding instead of cars in any other areas than the one cherry picked for the study.

More likely, we'd have to get 40% of drivers to buy an ebike (which won't happen but anyway if it did...), 35% of them would sit in their garages until they want to joyride so it displaces 5% cars at most and that 5% clogs up roadways (due to the class and wattage restrictions of 28MPH and 750W) by slowing down traffic so the ICE vehicles get worse fuel economy.

IMO it would make more sense for a program with subsidized tiny 4 wheel EV car fleets used as a taxi service, paid for by users just enough to fund the program rather than for-profit. This would make them all weather, capable of speeds slightly past the posted speed limits so no clogging roads, and only enough of them to serve the volume of rides needed rather than a far higher # of them than used simultaneously, like ebikes would be collecting dust in peoples' garages until they want to take a joyride or all ducks are in a row for it to be the right weather, the right roads to the right destination, etc to make sense to take the ebike instead of the car.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
Ideally workplaces should just allow people to bring their bikes in. I know that's what I would do and hopefully they would not say anything. Though if everyone started to do it I can see it being a bit of an issue I guess. In my city a bike left outside does not last more than an hour before it's stolen. If you use a lock that they can't cut through, they'll just dismantle the bike and leave the frame there.
Yeah, I see this as a huge issue to bike uptake. What I don't get, I've tried to sell used components and no body buys them, even when I'm basically giving them away o get zero interest. Where are the thieves sell it at?
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,459
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
Have you ever paused and looked at what a filthy mess cars are, that were driven on snowy streets? I'd hardly think being sweaty would be as bad as being coated in gray salt grime from head to toe, let alone the dangers from loss of traction. Fat bike tires with knobs can dig their way through snow but are terrible for ice. Smoother tires with lots of sipes are better for ice but forget about unplowed snow. 4 wheel vehicles can get away with this a lot more because loss of traction on one wheel doesn't result in loss of balance, and no type of tire is going to get your through big chunky piles of half-ice pushed into your path by a plow.

I suppose less of that matters if you have a dedicated bike lane set aside from the street lane, but suspect it's still going to be close enough to be splattered by the salty gray grime.

I'd probably stick to the sidewalk mostly, since yeah the main roads are pretty nasty. The side roads are not so bad since they put sand instead of salt. Then there's the issue of when the sidewalks are not plowed, and with the snow banks that puts me on the driven part of the road vs the side. So yeah... some places would maybe be a bit sketchy. Then there's also the fun of riding in the dark since it's dark before work and after work. But yeah maybe it would not work out that great now that you mention it.

Our actual snow season is short these days anyway, we don't really get much snow until mid December now days then it's gone by end of May. So could just put the bike away for that time span.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,359
1,555
126
Yeah, I see this as a huge issue to bike uptake. What I don't get, I've tried to sell used components and no body buys them, even when I'm basically giving them away o get zero interest. Where are the thieves sell it at?
Thieves can mix and match to make a whole bike then sell with the minimum paper trail possible, locally if anyone bites. If you're looking for a cheap bike you go to the black market not online competitive price arenas.

It's a show stopper for me, no way I'd pay $2K + for anything decent and leave it parked somewhere hoping a thief can't overcome a lock when I myself have more than enough tools to overcome anything on the market if I were a bike thief.
 
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BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
That's kind of an urban myth, short trips being so bad. Yes your vehicle won't last as many miles but you also won't be putting on nearly as many miles if everything is so nearby.

Short trips are bad is more of a comparison of 3 x 2 mile trips versus 1 x 6 mile trip, while the wear is LESS if you take 1 x 2 mile trip opposed to 1 x 10 mile trip, as long as you keep in mind that the oil change interval should be shorter to account for not cooking off water vapor (or in some modern engines, fuel dilution). The main thing is, you can't then run some lofty high mileage interval between oil changes and instead should stick to a 1-2 year change interval regardless of mileage unless there's practically no miles driven (show car or RV in storage).

My oldest vehicle isn't my daily commuter and I short trip all the time (sometimes just to keep its fluids flowing, sitting too long at a time isn't ideal for vehicles either) and have no ill effects from it, but I only put up to 2 thousand miles on it a year so ultimately it will die from rusting before anything else, because it's also the one I use in the worst of winter, because it's my oldest, lowest value vehicle that sacrifices itself for the good of the rest. Even then, shorter trips mean less exposure to salted roads than if destinations were further away, fewer encounters with other vehicles within that shorter distance to collide with and total it.

Living close to everything you need ROCKS, but isn't a reason to suffer riding a bicycle with the thought that it's bad on a car. If you want to ride a bike and it's safe enough, have at it, but I don't buy the conclusion in the linked article study that we can magically expect a 15% shift to ebike riding instead of cars in any other areas than the one cherry picked for the study.

More likely, we'd have to get 40% of drivers to buy an ebike (which won't happen but anyway if it did...), 35% of them would sit in their garages until they want to joyride so it displaces 5% cars at most and that 5% clogs up roadways (due to the class and wattage restrictions of 28MPH and 750W) by slowing down traffic so the ICE vehicles get worse fuel economy.

IMO it would make more sense for a program with subsidized tiny 4 wheel EV car fleets used as a taxi service, paid for by users just enough to fund the program rather than for-profit. This would make them all weather, capable of speeds slightly past the posted speed limits so no clogging roads, and only enough of them to serve the volume of rides needed rather than a far higher # of them than used simultaneously, like ebikes would be collecting dust in peoples' garages until they want to take a joyride or all ducks are in a row for it to be the right weather, the right roads to the right destination, etc to make sense to take the ebike instead of the car.
The oil life monitor in my car is calling for frequent oil changes as it should be doing, lots of miles in open-loop and, as you said, not enough oil temp to cook off moisture. Tiny EV vehicles are around here, they're called golf carts LOL and they are legal as long as you keep off the main roads, not that cheap as you would think though.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,359
1,555
126
No not golf carts, rather serious competition from Chinese manufacturers who build to a price point the dwindling middle class can afford.

Tesla is a bubble that is pretty much screwed as are the investors, since the market and supply is saturated and can only go downhill if politics don't get in the way of free market which has a capped upper limit for these uber vehicles.

The environmental approach that solves this is not a niche vehicle for the rich, nor some bicycle for the niche that can use it every day, but rather a basic, utilitarian vehicle for the masses. It is incredible that these extremes are targeted instead of what the masses would adopt. Profits above integrity.

I'm not opposed to anyone having the Tesla or ebike that they want, just that the needs of society going as green as (reasonably) possible, and in an affordable way, are not being best met with either alternative.
 
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Nov 17, 2019
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I'm sure there are studies on this, but I always wonder if rebates like this actually save the consumer money, or if the companies just increase the price. If it was real estate, they'd 100% just raise the price. But I think the rebates help scale up EVs and helped drive the cost lower.
Solar stuff went up 30% when the 30% tax credits kicked in. I don't know if it dropped back down since I stopped looking after I noticed that scam.

'Town' is 25 miles away. When I go once or twice a month, I usually make 6 or 8 stops, sometimes more covering 50-75 miles and come back with the car and sometimes a trailer loaded with hundreds of pounds. Is one of this whizzmatrons gonna help me?