Time to focus on a Bush strength

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Here is an excellent article posted in the Economist last month.

Article

Read it before you comment, and try to look at this without bias. The man may not be the greatest leader or president in history, but suck up your pride and give the man credit when he deserves it.

Hope you enjoy the article.

Discuss.
Now for the good news
Jul 21st 2005
From The Economist print edition



George Bush's education reforms may be working

Get article background

THERE is no shortage of bad news for the White House these days. The Washington press corps is on death watch outside the house of Karl Rove, George Bush's chief adviser, and the car bombs continue to explode across Iraq. Yet last Thursday also saw some rare good news. It is buried in a pretty obscure place, in a report published by the National Assessment of Educational Progress. But it has some big implications?not only for Mr Bush's much-maligned claim that he is a different sort of conservative, but also for the future health of American society.

The National Assessment of Educational Progress has been periodically testing a representative sample of 9-, 13- and 17-year-olds since the early 1970s. This year's report contained two striking results. The first is that America's nine-year-olds posted their best scores in reading and maths since the tests were introduced (in 1971 in reading and 1973 in maths). The second is that the gap between white students and minorities is narrowing. The nine-year-olds who made the biggest gains of all were blacks, traditionally the most educationally deprived group in American society.

The education establishment?particularly the two big teachers' unions?were quick to pooh-pooh the result. The critics argued that Mr Bush cannot take credit for the gains because his chief educational reform, the No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Act, had been in place for only a year when the tests were administered. They also pointed out that the gains are not universal. The results are mixed for 13-year-olds and 17-year-olds. The reading skills of black and Latino 17-year-olds were nearly identical to those of white 13-year-olds.

All this is true, but self-confounding. Mr Bush's act may be very new. But the ideas that lie behind it?focusing on basic subjects such as maths and reading and using regular testing to hold schools accountable?have been widely tried at the state level since at least the mid-1990s. Mr Bush deserves credit for recognising winning ideas thrown up by America's ?laboratories of democracy? and then applying them at the federal level. Thirteen- and 17-year-olds may not have shown as much improvement as nine-year-olds. But that is precisely because reformers have focused their energies on the earlier grades.

These results matter. In domestic policy Mr Bush has put more emphasis on education reform than on anything else except tax cuts. He first introduced himself to the American public as an educational reformer who had pioneered both testing and accountability in Texas. In his first year in office he teamed up with Ted Kennedy (he was then ?a uniter, not a divider?) to push his education reforms through Congress. On the morning of September 11th 2001 he was famously reading ?My Pet Goat? to a group of Florida schoolchildren. If Islamic terrorists hadn't changed the world that morning, Mr Bush might have been remembered mostly as an education president.

Mr Bush sold himself to the American people as a new kind of conservative. From the Goldwater revolution onwards, American conservatives defined themselves by their hostility to government. They were particularly keen on closing down the Department of Education. But Mr Bush argued that active government was quite compatible with conservative principles, provided that it was active government guided by sensible values and disciplined by internal and external competition. Mr Bush increased the Department of Education's funding by a staggering 40%, more in percentage terms than the increase given to the Pentagon. But he justified the extra spending on the ground that the department was introducing testing, transparency and accountability. The act not only requires states to measure the general progress of their children. It also requires them to disaggregate their data to reveal the performance of specific groups such as Latino children or poor children. The aim is to prevent states from boosting the overall performance of their children while leaving vulnerable groups behind.

A challenge for the Democrats

Mr Bush's embrace of the Department of Education has caused severe friction on the right. Free-market purists have criticised him for abandoning market solutions in favour of central planning. And state education authorities have criticised him for imposing a one-size-fits-all solution on the education system. But Mr Bush can now reasonably reply that his policies are beginning to have the desired effects.

They need to have. The poor quality of America's schools is arguably the biggest threat to America's global competitiveness, a threat that will only grow as the best brains from India and China compete in an ever-wider array of jobs. And the growing gap between the educational performance of the rich and the poor, and between the majority and minorities, is arguably the biggest threat to America's traditional conception of itself as a meritocracy. The test results are thus doubly good news. They suggest that America may be able to improve its traditionally dismal educational performance. And they suggest that sharpening up schools can especially help minority children.

These results pose a new challenge to Mr Bush. He needs to move quickly to extend his reforms to America's high schools, now clearly exposed as the weakest link in the education chain. But they pose even bigger challenges for the Democratic Party. Democrats were once champions of education reform: Bill Clinton first attracted national attention with his reforms of schools in Arkansas. But since the passage of NCLB they have increasingly sided with an education establishment that is bent on defending the status quo from inconvenient reforms. This is surely both a mistake and an abuse of power. For it is now clear that at least some of those reforms offer a much better start in life to America's children, particularly the poorest.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
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it hardly seems suprising that when schools are forced to teach to the tests to receive funding that they do exactly this at the expense of whatever else is necesary. the real question is if this "gain" is worth it.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Tommunist
it hardly seems suprising that when schools are forced to teach to the tests to receive funding that they do exactly this at the expense of whatever else is necesary. the real question is if this "gain" is worth it.

My memory from about 20 years of getting two kids through the system is that they have always taught to the test!

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Here is an excellent article posted in the Economist last month.

Article

Read it before you comment, and try to look at this without bias. The man may not be the greatest leader or president in history, but suck up your pride and give the man credit when he deserves it.

Hope you enjoy the article.

Discuss.
Topic Title: Time to focus on a Bush strength
Topic Summary: Dems, don't try to fight this battle next election!

Again BUllsh!t

The kids are as dumb as a tape recorder
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Here is an excellent article posted in the Economist last month.

Article

Read it before you comment, and try to look at this without bias. The man may not be the greatest leader or president in history, but suck up your pride and give the man credit when he deserves it.

Hope you enjoy the article.

Discuss.
Topic Title: Time to focus on a Bush strength
Topic Summary: Dems, don't try to fight this battle next election!

Again BUllsh!t

The kids are as dumb as a tape recorder

Dave, don't judge everyone by the image you see in the mirror!

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Tommunist
it hardly seems suprising that when schools are forced to teach to the tests to receive funding that they do exactly this at the expense of whatever else is necesary. the real question is if this "gain" is worth it.

That was pretty much my comment as well. Teaching to the tests IS pretty much how things have always been done to some extent, and the latest trend is to do more of this. Fair enough, but the real question is whether or not those tests reflect a better educated student population.

My experience in school tells me that's not the given some people seem to think it is. Making tests that comprehensivly test students' knowledge of a subject is difficult, but it becomes more of a problem when the test is the only thing being taught.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Tommunist
it hardly seems suprising that when schools are forced to teach to the tests to receive funding that they do exactly this at the expense of whatever else is necesary. the real question is if this "gain" is worth it.

My memory from about 20 years of getting two kids through the system is that they have always taught to the test!

I tend to agree. I always scored in the top 1% or 2% on all the standardized tests. I get to college, and find out that I really don't know all that much. I haven't decided where my kids are going to school, but public schools that teach to the test? Not appealing.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Tommunist
it hardly seems suprising that when schools are forced to teach to the tests to receive funding that they do exactly this at the expense of whatever else is necesary. the real question is if this "gain" is worth it.

My memory from about 20 years of getting two kids through the system is that they have always taught to the test!

I tend to agree. I always scored in the top 1% or 2% on all the standardized tests. I get to college, and find out that I really don't know all that much. I haven't decided where my kids are going to school, but public schools that teach to the test? Not appealing.

I had the same issue. While I did very well in college, I think high school did a crummy job of getting me ready for it. But I always did very well on tests and in school as a whole, I was in the top 1% for ACT and SAT...how much did that really mean?
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Tommunist
it hardly seems suprising that when schools are forced to teach to the tests to receive funding that they do exactly this at the expense of whatever else is necesary. the real question is if this "gain" is worth it.

My memory from about 20 years of getting two kids through the system is that they have always taught to the test!

I tend to agree. I always scored in the top 1% or 2% on all the standardized tests. I get to college, and find out that I really don't know all that much. I haven't decided where my kids are going to school, but public schools that teach to the test? Not appealing.

I had the same issue. While I did very well in college, I think high school did a crummy job of getting me ready for it. But I always did very well on tests and in school as a whole, I was in the top 1% for ACT and SAT...how much did that really mean?

I didn't do quite as well as I would have liked in college. Most of it was study skills - I had none. I didn't have to do anything to do well in high school or score well on their standardized tests.

I've always thought the last two years of high school should be more like Junior College. Its a lot harder than high school, but not as difficult as going away to a 4 year school.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Hey, this thread isn't a dating service!!...:laugh:
Comment on the article, there was a reason I pulled it out of the NCLB thread :p
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Here is an excellent article posted in the Economist last month.

Article

Read it before you comment, and try to look at this without bias. The man may not be the greatest leader or president in history, but suck up your pride and give the man credit when he deserves it.

Hope you enjoy the article.

Discuss.
Topic Title: Time to focus on a Bush strength
Topic Summary: Dems, don't try to fight this battle next election!

Again BUllsh!t

The kids are as dumb as a tape recorder

Dave, don't judge everyone by the image you see in the mirror!


Or the buzzard avatared person on the LCD screen either.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
NCLB is a great bipartisan bill to strengthen our public schools with quantifyable results.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: mribnik1
Whoops, thought this thread was going to be about cocaine.
I've heard of people 'speaking to God' when high :laugh:
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Here is an excellent article posted in the Economist last month.

Article

Read it before you comment, and try to look at this without bias. The man may not be the greatest leader or president in history, but suck up your pride and give the man credit when he deserves it.

Hope you enjoy the article.

Discuss.
Topic Title: Time to focus on a Bush strength
Topic Summary: Dems, don't try to fight this battle next election!

Again BUllsh!t

The kids are as dumb as a tape recorder

Dave, don't judge everyone by the image you see in the mirror!


Or the buzzard avatared person on the LCD screen either.

Hi xxxxx (oops, turncoat was the other one). Compare life experiences? Have you any?

 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Here is an excellent article posted in the Economist last month.

Article

Read it before you comment, and try to look at this without bias. The man may not be the greatest leader or president in history, but suck up your pride and give the man credit when he deserves it.

Hope you enjoy the article.

Discuss.
Topic Title: Time to focus on a Bush strength
Topic Summary: Dems, don't try to fight this battle next election!

Again BUllsh!t

The kids are as dumb as a tape recorder

Dave, many think that tape recorder has some edge on you.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Just another underfunded program in Bush's arsenal of reforms.

Talk to a teacher, you know, the people actually affected by NCLB. See what they tell you.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: zendari
NCLB is a great bipartisan bill to strengthen our public schools with quantifyable results.

I almost NEVER do this BUT

your school needs something to check their results for sure -- or at least your spelling :D
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
The NCLB Act is not working, it's crap. It forces kids that aren't on the same level as there peers do take these test that aren't designed for them. Not to mention the states are forced to pay for the test; which is why several states are suing the federal goverment.

Who wrote this article?

Why the NCLB sucks the big one....
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
It's real simple, if you as a teacher, administrator, or school board don't want to have to deal with the requirements of NCLB, then don't take the federal money. Personally I don't think you should get a dime, and in fact the public education establishment in this country has been doing such a sh!tty job over the last few decades, they should be publicly shamed into giving some of the money back that us taxpayers wasted paying their salaries s over the years while they've been producing "high school graduates" who can't read.