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zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
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He went on 60 minutes and said there was no reason for people to be walking around with masks. What "best knowledge on hand at the time" was that based on? Keep venerating people that failed miserably at their jobs.
Did you read that somewhere and not actually watch the 60 minutes interview?

Watch the whole thing here or skip forward to the 5:45 mark if you are lazy.

 
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zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
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Much the same here. I heard multiple explanations from 'public health experts' as to why the public should not bother with masks, before they changed their mind. I think I still have a BBC podcast where their medical expert explains at length why it's a bad idea to use a mask. And apparently that was what was the real reasoning behind it.

Though it would have been better, I think, for the experts to be honest with the public about what the concern was.

Also, I think that part of the issue is that the people whose job it is to tell the general public about such topics, are not the same people who are actually at the forefront of research into health issues. There are experts in a topic, and there are experts in telling the public about a topic, and those are not the same people.
I have a very clear recollection on this subject and by March I was aware that surgical and N95 marks would be helpful but need to be conserved for people on the front line. Initially there was no data available for cloth masks but by April studies showed cloth masks would likely prevent the person wearing the mask from spreading Covid. By September data indicated that cloth masks would help reduce viral load and help reduce severity for the person wearing the mask.

Trump and fiends were the reason the mask message got botched.

Here is an interview from April 3rd where Fauci talks about new data on masks (3:49).

 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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I have a very clear recollection on this subject and by March I was aware that surgical and N95 marks would be helpful but need to be conserved for people on the front line. Initially there was no data available for cloth masks but by April studies showed cloth masks would likely prevent the person wearing the mask from spreading Covid. By September data indicated that cloth masks would help reduce viral load and help reduce severity for the person wearing the mask.

Trump and fiends were the reason the mask message got botched.

Here is an interview from April 3rd where Fauci talks about new data on masks (3:49).



The thing is, I'm not saying anything about Fauci as such. I'm not joining in Fauci-bashing, and absolutely didn't intend to give that impression.

I'm not in the US, and here the experts were all saying "masks won't help" during the early stages of the crisis. A friend with health-anxiety was telling me "you should stock up on masks" (he started on that as early as February, before the virus had even gotten out of China, as he was convinced even then it 'would go global'), and I was soon quoting back to him what the official experts were saying in the media about masks not being worthwhile for ordinary members of the public. At some point the line suddenly changed (in fact that was around April when that new data came out) , and I have since heard experts ruefully admitting that the original line was largely due to worry about people potentially buying up all the limited stock of n95s.

The other thing is - OK, they either hadn't yet done, or just not yet read, the studies that revealed that people could spread the virus while asymptomatic, and thus didn't know that masks on asymptomatic people would slow the spread of the disease. But, really, given that they didn't actually know either way the value of masks, should they (the science-communicating community rather than the research scientists) really have made their anti-mask statements with such unmerited confidence?

That's a bug-bear of mine in a very general way (not particularly about COVID) - that (junior) professionals who present themselves to the public as 'experts' so often overstate the confidence with which they know something. Because they usually aren't research scientists and haven't necessarily kept up withl the latest literature. Reminds me of all the occassions I've been bullshitted by all sorts of junior professionals in various fields, from medicine to computers to finance. If you aren't certain, either don't claim to be, or go look it up.

(As an aside, they ought to put a hypochondriac in charge of public health procurement - had my friend been in charge the country would have been fully stocked up on all possible PPE equipment back in January)
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,083
21,203
136
The thing is, I'm not saying anything about Fauci as such. I'm not joining in Fauci-bashing, and absolutely didn't intend to give that impression.

I'm not in the US, and here the experts were all saying "masks won't help" during the early stages of the crisis. A friend with health-anxiety was telling me "you should stock up on masks" (he started on that as early as February, before the virus had even gotten out of China, as he was convinced even then it 'would go global'), and I was soon quoting back to him what the official experts were saying in the media about masks not being worthwhile for ordinary members of the public. At some point the line suddenly changed (in fact that was around April when that new data came out) , and I have since heard experts ruefully admitting that the original line was largely due to worry about people potentially buying up all the limited stock of n95s.

The other thing is - OK, they either hadn't yet done, or just not yet read, the studies that revealed that people could spread the virus while asymptomatic, and thus didn't know that masks on asymptomatic people would slow the spread of the disease. But, really, given that they didn't actually know either way the value of masks, should they (the science-communicating community rather than the research scientists) really have made their anti-mask statements with such unmerited confidence?

That's a bug-bear of mine in a very general way (not particularly about COVID) - that (junior) professionals who present themselves to the public as 'experts' so often overstate the confidence with which they know something. Because they usually aren't research scientists and haven't necessarily kept up withl the latest literature. Reminds me of all the occassions I've been bullshitted by all sorts of junior professionals in various fields, from medicine to computers to finance. If you aren't certain, either don't claim to be, or go look it up.

(As an aside, they ought to put a hypochondriac in charge of public health procurement - had my friend been in charge the country would have been fully stocked up on all possible PPE equipment back in January)
I ordered 10 N95 masks on February 25 from a seller on Amazon and they were already way overpriced.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
8,522
136
I ordered 10 N95 masks on February 25 from a seller on Amazon and they were already way overpriced.

Well, no offence, but that would make you one of the people that the public-facing health-experts were telling off back then. Buying n95 masks was what was specifically being declared to be a bad thing to do at that time.
What they didn't start doing till the end of April, was to acknowledge that simpler cloth masks would have a beneficial effect.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,083
21,203
136
Well, no offence, but that would make you one of the people that the public-facing health-experts were telling off back then. Buying n95 masks was what was specifically being declared to be a bad thing to do at that time.
At the time I didn't hear anyone tell me not to buy N95's for the sake of healthcare workers. Nothing at all. Everybody I knew at the time from family to friends thought I was overreacting when I said get a couple masks just in case.

I thought Covid had a slight chance of being serious in the US, far less than a 50% chance for sure, so I wanted to have something just in case, and for my family. Most of me thought those masks would just stay in my storage closet, never to be needed, but the boy scout in me said get them. I'm glad I did. My girlfriend at the time ended up sending a couple of them to a guy she knew was a nurse in NYC and gave another to her roommate. I have no regrets.

My brother in law works at a paint lab so they had masks. Turns out I didn't have to give them any.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
yes, apparently scientists aren't allowed to give advice as scientists do--with the best knowledge on hand at the time, and the expectation that advice can and absolutely will be revised, with increased, better knowledge.

the fuck is wrong with you?
As you know, he's a hard core Bernie Bro, not that dissimilar from the cult of Trump.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,202
18,671
146
Did you read that somewhere and not actually watch the 60 minutes interview?

Watch the whole thing here or skip forward to the 5:45 mark if you are lazy.


Yup, and Fauci said it best, he's being dragged into politics against his will. He's a scientist and wants no part of the bs.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I ordered 10 N95 masks on February 25 from a seller on Amazon and they were already way overpriced.
I just happened to have one barely used N95 mask lying around from a home project that never got finished in December. Once I started seeing news footage of entire societies wearing masks in China and Korea, I started wearing mine to the supermarket. I wanted to donate it but no one could take it because I already used it once. The defiance over PPE is mind numbing, we shouldn’t require a government mandate to take sensible precautionary measures.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,797
4,983
136
The defiance over PPE is mind numbing, we shouldn’t require a government mandate to take sensible precautionary measures.
MUH FREEDUM!!!!!! And any rednecks willing to wear face coverings, wore a neck gator. Those have been shown to actually break down water droplets into smaller ones to help aerosolize them more.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,248
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MUH FREEDUM!!!!!! And any rednecks willing to wear face coverings, wore a neck gator. Those have been shown to actually break down water droplets into smaller ones to help aerosolize them more.

You’re being kind of harsh with this. Early on that was not known and honestly I haven’t heard it myself.
It’s similar to blaming Fauci because early on he said masks didn’t help/normal people wearing masks won’t matter/cloth masks won’t help.
Point is at the time Fauci was working with what was known. At the time the Red Necks wore what was considered appropriate
 

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,255
2,272
136
The thing is, I'm not saying anything about Fauci as such. I'm not joining in Fauci-bashing, and absolutely didn't intend to give that impression.

I'm not in the US, and here the experts were all saying "masks won't help" during the early stages of the crisis. A friend with health-anxiety was telling me "you should stock up on masks" (he started on that as early as February, before the virus had even gotten out of China, as he was convinced even then it 'would go global'), and I was soon quoting back to him what the official experts were saying in the media about masks not being worthwhile for ordinary members of the public. At some point the line suddenly changed (in fact that was around April when that new data came out) , and I have since heard experts ruefully admitting that the original line was largely due to worry about people potentially buying up all the limited stock of n95s.

The other thing is - OK, they either hadn't yet done, or just not yet read, the studies that revealed that people could spread the virus while asymptomatic, and thus didn't know that masks on asymptomatic people would slow the spread of the disease. But, really, given that they didn't actually know either way the value of masks, should they (the science-communicating community rather than the research scientists) really have made their anti-mask statements with such unmerited confidence?

That's a bug-bear of mine in a very general way (not particularly about COVID) - that (junior) professionals who present themselves to the public as 'experts' so often overstate the confidence with which they know something. Because they usually aren't research scientists and haven't necessarily kept up withl the latest literature. Reminds me of all the occassions I've been bullshitted by all sorts of junior professionals in various fields, from medicine to computers to finance. If you aren't certain, either don't claim to be, or go look it up.

(As an aside, they ought to put a hypochondriac in charge of public health procurement - had my friend been in charge the country would have been fully stocked up on all possible PPE equipment back in January)

I can only speak for the US experience. If you listened to experts here the information was solid. If you listened to to celebrity doctors like Dr. Drew or listened to our president you got misinformation. People need to use critical thinking when digesting information and vet the source themselves.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
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I can only speak for the US experience. If you listened to experts here the information was solid. If you listened to to celebrity doctors like Dr. Drew or listened to our president you got misinformation. People need to use critical thinking when digesting information and vet the source themselves.

Well, I am not talking of celebrities, I'm talking, for example, of the BBC's "Inside health" program - usually reliable - which I recall did a whole bit on how laypeople shouldn't bother with masks. That was a widespread message from the 'authorities' in the first few months of the pandemic. IIRC even the WHO downplayed masks at the start. April is probably when it changed, I remember starting to look for masks at the start of May. I also wonder if there wasn't a bit of cultural snobbery/arrogance about the earily error on masks, because it was seen as something those eccentric Asian people do, and not our way.

Again, I think there's a general issue that the people whose job it is to communicate science and other specialist topics to the lay people, are not usually at the top of their game when it comes to following the research, or in fully admitting the uncertainties in its current ideas. That's extends well beyond 'celebrity doctors'.

And again, this is not about Fauci, I don't know much about him, other than Trumpists don't like him.
 

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,255
2,272
136
Well, I am not talking of celebrities, I'm talking, for example, of the BBC's "Inside health" program - usually reliable - which I recall did a whole bit on how laypeople shouldn't bother with masks. That was a widespread message from the 'authorities' in the first few months of the pandemic. IIRC even the WHO downplayed masks at the start. April is probably when it changed, I remember starting to look for masks at the start of May. I also wonder if there wasn't a bit of cultural snobbery/arrogance about the earily error on masks, because it was seen as something those eccentric Asian people do, and not our way.

Again, I think there's a general issue that the people whose job it is to communicate science and other specialist topics to the lay people, are not usually at the top of their game when it comes to following the research, or in fully admitting the uncertainties in its current ideas. That's extends well beyond 'celebrity doctors'.

And again, this is not about Fauci, I don't know much about him, other than Trumpists don't like him.

In the US there was a run on surgical and N95 masks. The message here was clear, please leave those for medical front line workers. There was an extreme shortage on them and hospitals were scampering to keep them in stock.
 
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