Time for a new card, a few questions

[ViviTheMage]

I currently have this setup :

E6400
4gb @ DDR2 800
7200.1 seagate hd
7900gtx
gigabyte DS3 board

basically, I am wondering what would be the best upgrade option. My friend is buying this computer from me for 750$, so i have just about that much + 200-300$ for a new one to build.

My question is, when it comes to gaming will a Q6600 beat that E6400 realistically--or will their be minor differences?

Also, when looking for a new motherboard is PCIe2.0 REALLY worth the extra money right now? If I were to get a 2.0 card would I see a difference if I did not have 2.0 capable board?

Now for the big question, what is the BEST card (probably 200-250$) that can play Age of Conan, TF2, Source, etc very well--compared to another model? ( i read that certain cards with higher b/w perform better on certain games).

I have been eyeing 8800gts series. Is the 9xxx series much better then the 8xxxx series in general? I also want a decent GPU cooler that is stock, I know EVGA makes nice ones and have loved EVGA for years now.

Do these ATI cards even compare in price/performance like Nvidia? If so, what would be a good equiv of a ATI to teh 8800gts?


So, with all of this in mind...which video card/cpu combo to get?

 

[ther00kie16]

Games currently don't take advantage of quad core so definitely go with a e8400 (I assume you meant 8400). Though if plan to move to some other multithreaded applications, a quad core would be a better buy as it will last you well into the period of when quad cores' potential are fully realized.

PCI-e 1.1 isn't a limiting factor right now. Many people get the P35 board and a 8800gts 512mb and see no performance hit.

8800gts 512mb is same as 9800gtx except the 9800 is clocked slightly higher. With that said, there's no point in getting a 9800. And since these are the best single gpu cards right now, they'll allow you to play pretty much any game (exception of Crysis of course) at whatever setting you desire.

ATi doesn't have anything comparable to the g92 cards so they played the price game which has resulted in nVidia's middle offerings like the 8600gt and the 8500gt unsellable (2 million 8600gt's left and nearly as many 8500gt's).

However, the interesting is that both nVidia and ATi are coming out with new cards in June. ATi's upcoming card could be a monster, which might lower prices yet. There may even be a better performance/dollar card from the next gen cards.

So with all that said, if you want to build now, $100 Gigabyte P35-DS3L, $190 e8400 (or $220 q6600 if you are looking to the somewhat distant future) and $200 8800gts 512mb should fall in your budget comfortably.
8800gts has a very good reference cooler. I wasn't sure if you meant a good reference cooler or one that comes with an after market cooler.

Just curious, how did you persuade your friend to buy that computer off of you for $750? Seems to me that he's overpaying by $200. If only my friends didn't already all have better systems than I have, then I could sell them mine. As it is, I think I can hold off until Nehalem is affordable, though that bit about Intel disallowing overclocking except on enthusiast line is troublesome.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I told him id only sell it to him for that much, so I could buy something decent--otherwise id just keep what I had and pick up a new cpu and video card.

I will probably pick up a used q6600 if possible, otherwise the e8400 will probably be fine too.

Yeah, I will also want to wait for the dual gpu cards in the future, 2-3 years.

So the quadcore and the c2d's are basically same in performance when it comes to gaming?

When will PCIe2.0 become a major factor? When will cards push beyond the 1.1 capabilities?

will i notice a dif between these cards? 7900gtx and 8800gts?

how is this CPU BTW, compcared to the Q6600? It has a larger L2 cache, but I do not know if that is a big deal or not ? I am actually stuck between the q6600 and e8400 now....hmmm.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115052

 

[ther00kie16]

Either q6600 or e8400 will be enough for games today, though e8400 (oc to 4+ghz) will beat q6600 (oc to 3.2-3.6ghz), but not really noticeable considering you'll be getting plenty of frame rates with either.
I'm not knowledgeable enough to say when 2.0 will be necessary. However, I recommend saving $100 and going with a P35 rather than a PCI-e 2.0 board now since when you need 2.0, you may want other things too like DDR3 and maybe that $100 savings will be enough for a PCI-e 2.0 board in the future.
In current games, the 8800gts will beat the 7900gtx by 50-75%.
The e7200 is a sweet deal if you want to overclock a dual core. Most overclocking results show that it comes just shy of hitting 4ghz, which is almost as fast as the e8400. However, the e7200 has less cache than e8400, which shows up as about a 10% performance hit clock for clock versus the e8400. Therefore, you can expect an overclocked e8400 to be about 20% faster than an overclocked e7200, which may not speak well for the e7200 in the future.
If you purchase a used q6600, make sure it's a good overclocker. G0 stepping and a batch number below 800. The new 800+ batches are horrible at overclocking as my friend who builds gaming computers tells me.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Thank ther00kie, those percentages helped me out a lot.

I will be getting an e8400, MSI NX8800GTS 512M OC GeForce 8800GTS (G92), gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L, Thermaltake TR2 430W, GeIL Value Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800, Seagate 7200.11 500GB.

this should last me for another 1-2 years, til I get a dual core GPU, and pciE 2.0, etc.

 

[ther00kie16]

That power supply only has 18A on the 12V rail. You want at least 25A for the 8800gts.
Try this with 33A and top notch quality.
Or buy.com for free shipping and googlecheckout.

 

[betasub]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
Thank ther00kie, those percentages helped me out a lot.

It's all very well throwing out numbers like 10%, 20% that are easy to grasp, but without stating a benchmark or method of measurement, they're meaningless. Some benchmarks are largely independent of L2 cache, others very sensitive to a certain size (typically an increase from 256KB to 512KB or 512KB to 1024KB). Most games show a small but measureable increase with L2 cache size (provided you are not limited elsewhere e.g. GPU).

 

[hooflung]

CPU Magazine did 13 tests against an Overclocked e4300 and a X6800 which has 2mb more cache. Both chips had a ~3.0ghz clock and the e4300 beat the X6800 in 12 of the 13 tests.

Where is this 10% you talk about r00kie? Only the e2x00 series with 1mb cache have performance impacts that you claim.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: ther00kie16
That power supply only has 18A on the 12V rail. You want at least 25A for the 8800gts.
Try this with 33A and top notch quality.
Or buy.com for free shipping and googlecheckout.

Done! I used googlecheckout ot save another 10 bucks too. About the same price as the one I listed. How is it that this PSU is SO much better at its 12v then that thermaltake I listed, shiet, I looked at a lot of dual 12vrails and they would do 15.5v ~~ or so each rail, that did seem low to me.

Originally posted by: hooflung
CPU Magazine did 13 tests against an Overclocked e4300 and a X6800 which has 2mb more cache. Both chips had a ~3.0ghz clock and the e4300 beat the X6800 in 12 of the 13 tests.

Where is this 10% you talk about r00kie? Only the e2x00 series with 1mb cache have performance impacts that you claim.

that is all and good, but I would prefer not to have to OC, as I want rather get longevity out of it really. If I would OC anything, it would be the GPU. I may dable a little bit, but other then a little, not extreme like they probably did.

I still think that the e8400 vs q6600 would beat it in gaming, at least that is what I have seen at stock benchmarks + the e8400 is much more OCable at the 45nm level.

 

[ViviTheMage]

actually, I think I will be getting the EVGA KO gts g92 card, as it has a lifetime warranty.

EDIT: Bought the BFG one, hhahaha...it was abit nicer then the EVGA, imo and on reviews.

 

[ther00kie16]

Originally posted by: betasub

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
Thank ther00kie, those percentages helped me out a lot.

It's all very well throwing out numbers like 10%, 20% that are easy to grasp, but without stating a benchmark or method of measurement, they're meaningless. Some benchmarks are largely independent of L2 cache, others very sensitive to a certain size (typically an increase from 256KB to 512KB or 512KB to 1024KB). Most games show a small but measureable increase with L2 cache size (provided you are not limited elsewhere e.g. GPU).

There are a lot of benchmarks and threads out there. I don't feel like wasting 10 minutes looking for them all. If you really want, you can look them up yourself. Basically, I'm providing you with the conclusion. If you are interested in how different reviews arrived at the conclusion, you can spend the time looking them up, not me.

 

[betasub]

Originally posted by: ther00kie16
There are a lot of benchmarks and threads out there. I don't feel like wasting 10 minutes looking for them all. If you really want, you can look them up yourself. Basically, I'm providing you with the conclusion. If you are interested in how different reviews arrived at the conclusion, you can spend the time looking them up, not me.

Fine, so you can't be bothered to qualify your statement of "a 10% performance hit clock for clock" due to L2 cache as a generalisation, an average or whatever.

hooflung doubts that the difference is as much as 10% for 3MB/6MB. I don't doubt that there's an L2-sensitive benchmark that'll give ~10%, but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

 

[ther00kie16]

go google e7200 benchmarks and look for the one that has 2.53ghz 3mb e7200 and 2.6ghz 6mb e8200 and see how they compare. Difference is anywhere from 5 to 20%.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: ther00kie16
go google e7200 benchmarks and look for the one that has 2.53ghz 3mb e7200 and 2.6ghz 6mb e8200 and see how they compare. Difference is anywhere from 5 to 20%.

link
for the lazy, this shows ooooooooodles of benchmarks on the e7200 + e8400 + lots of other cpus.