Tim Cook visits Foxconn Plant, conducts audit, violations found

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Bateluer

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/29/technology/apple-foxconn-report/index.htm

The FLA is a watchdog group hired by Apple to audit its overseas suppliers.

The average monthly salaries at the plants range from 2,257 RMB in Chengdu -- around $358 in U.S. dollars -- to 2,872 RMB (USD $455) in Guanlan.

A team from the FLA, an independent labor-rights organization, arrived last month at the vast Foxconn plant in Shenzhen, China, known as Foxconn City, to conduct a voluntary audit commissioned by Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500). Thursday's report, which the FLA said is the first of many, covered three factories in Guanlan, Longhua and Chengdu.

The team surveyed 35,500 employees at those factories about their working and living conditions, including their compensation and working hours. The audit also included inspection of manufacturing areas, dormitories and other facilities.

The FLA's report says Foxconn has agreed to work with the group to remedy many of the violations it recorded. In one key move, Foxconn says it will achieve "full legal compliance" with Chinese work-hour laws by July 1, 2013. To do that, Foxconn will need to hire "tens of thousands" of extra workers to offset its current employees' workload, the FLA said.

In a written response to the FLA's audit, Apple said: "We appreciate the work the FLA has done to assess conditions at Foxconn and we fully support their recommendations. We think empowering workers and helping them understand their rights is essential."
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Clearly, working conditions are pretty bad. Are you prepared or willing o see a 15%, 20%, or 30% increase in the cost of your gadgets to bring their employees wages up?
 
Phokus

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Bateluer said:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/29/technology/apple-foxconn-report/index.htm



Clearly, working conditions are pretty bad. Are you prepared or willing o see a 15%, 20%, or 30% increase in the cost of your gadgets to bring their employees wages up?
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I thought Steve Jobs said it would only costs an additional 5% to manufacture in the US... i don't think the cost of Apple's products are going to go up that much to just remedy working violations in CHINA. Also, their margins are ridiculous, they would probably absorb the cost easily.
 
destrekor

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Foxconn makes more than Apple devices, mind you. This could hurt other gadgets too.
 
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MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
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That's the thing. Consumers want things cheap, which is why everything is from china. China can provide that because they aren't bothered by laws, regulations, or the environment. Heck they don't even care about human rights.

Apple being the super power business has the most leverage compared to most to make a change to these factories.
 
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goog40

Diamond Member
Mar 16, 2000
4,198
1
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Bad pay and bad working conditions by American standards, pretty decent for China. Otherwise, there wouldn't be thousands of people lining up to apply for jobs at those plants. The alternatives aren't pretty.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,837
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badb0y said:
Are other companies doing this too or just Apple?
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Maybe, but because they don't get a lot of media attention no one really reports if workers making Dell products have terrible working conditions or if Dell is taking measures to ensure that those things aren't happening. Considering that Foxconn does work for just about everyone we can assume that this will generally improve conditions across the board.
 
destrekor

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
MrX8503 said:
That's the thing. Consumers want things cheap, which is why everything is from china. China can provide that because they aren't bothered by laws, regulations, or the environment. Heck they don't even care about human rights.

Apple being the super power business has the most leverage compared to most to make a change to these factories.
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Consumers wanting things cheap is NOT the reason businesses have offloaded production to China.

Prices likely don't change when a company switches to China-based production of goods (and foreign goods and services in general); on the contrary, prices likely remain about the same (pricing also changing, for better or worse, in order to remain competitive in any specific product market... also determined by regional economics), and the different in profit is pocketed by the original corporation. THAT's the fuel for the exodus of American-produced devices.
In order to compete and maintain "healthy" profit margins, when some companies come onto the scene and are fine with large sales but disruptive/low-margin pricing, can "force" a company to shift production elsewhere in order to allow them to keep those "healthy" profits even if it means lowering the cost to consumer in order to remain competitive.

Do realize that very few corporations, if any, have EVER lowered prices from original MSRPs, with the goal of keeping consumers happy. On the contrary, they drop prices to keep the companies/owners/shareholders happy, because in any certain market, that may be the only way to keep strong sales.

Now, new companies might come on board with cheaper prices, but that's a market-disruption tactic that is aimed at drawing in a lot of customers. Over time, these new companies almost always raise prices (new product models/new features/"it's better!").

Possibly an argument based entirely around semantics, but in terms of business, it's an important distinction.
 
Ns1

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
destrekor

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Bateluer said:
I didn't say 'Apple products', I said 'gadgets'. :p

There's a lot of Foxconn hardware in my house.
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I assumed correctly for your post then. :p

My post was actually a retort toward "Reality Distortion Field" [which, imho implies this would be an Apple thing. :p]
 
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dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
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Phokus said:
I thought Steve Jobs said it would only costs an additional 5% to manufacture in the US... i don't think the cost of Apple's products are going to go up that much to just remedy working violations in CHINA. Also, their margins are ridiculous, they would probably absorb the cost easily.
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The increase from just assembly labor costs would be $50-60, however that ignores the fact that the supply chain for parts would still be in Asia. That would add some additional cost as well.
 
Oyeve

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,916
823
126
MrX8503 said:
That's the thing. Consumers want things cheap, which is why everything is from china. China can provide that because they aren't bothered by laws, regulations, or the environment. Heck they don't even care about human rights.

Apple being the super power business has the most leverage compared to most to make a change to these factories.
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Yes we want things cheap but the companies, if they actually gave a crap, could to the humane thing and take a smaller profit, but that is unlikely to happen.
 
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MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
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destrekor said:
Consumers wanting things cheap is NOT the reason businesses have offloaded production to China.
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Yes it is.

How well has factories done in the US? Americans demand top dollar for manual labor on the assembly line. If things were made in the US, expect to pay more.
 
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alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
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it's mostly the fact that you can pollute in china. most people in the US don't want to live near pollution and will sue you for the next 30 years if you pollute or want to open a new factory that will increase the risk of pollution
 
Oyeve

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,916
823
126
MrX8503 said:
Yes it is.

How well has factories done in the US? Americans demand top dollar for manual labor on the assembly line. If things were made in the US, expect to pay more.
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This, I remember in the late 70s and early 80s when american autoworkers striked and demanded $24 an hour to do line work. At the time I thought that was a ridiculous amount of money for basically non-skilled labor. That was one of the major reasons US cars were so ridiculously expensive.


alent1234 said:
it's mostly the fact that you can pollute in china. most people in the US don't want to live near pollution and will sue you for the next 30 years if you pollute or want to open a new factory that will increase the risk of pollution
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True, thats why we have so many bankrupt mining towns all over the us.
 
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MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
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alent1234 said:
it's mostly the fact that you can pollute in china. most people in the US don't want to live near pollution and will sue you for the next 30 years if you pollute or want to open a new factory that will increase the risk of pollution
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Thats true. In China, there are very few regulations that would otherwise hold profits back. They can do whatever they please and the workers don't demand large salaries for unskilled labor.

As it seems, it looks like the Foxconn workers are unhappy with their hours being cut back. Honestly a 55hr work week isn't unheard of. I wouldn't do it personally, but some of my friends do.
 
Ns1

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
alent1234 said:
all you factory lovers need to go find a job in a factory and tell your kids to work there as well

personally i know around zero people who would want their kids to work in a factory in an assembly line job
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Well, when the alternative is...

China_water_carrier.jpg
 
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goog40

Diamond Member
Mar 16, 2000
4,198
1
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Now the Foxconn workers are complaining about their overtime being cut. Great job FLA.

But with the changes implemented by Foxconn, employees are now concerned that their wages will also be cut. "If we work less overtime, it would mean less money," said Wu, an employee from China's Hunan province.

Another worker from Hunan, 25-year-old Chen Yamei, said she and others are there to "work and not to play." She has been an employee at Foxconn for four years, and earns about $634 per month.

"We have just been told that we can only work a maximum of 36 hours a month of overtime," she said. "I tell you, a lot of us are unhappy with this. We think that 60 hours of overtime a month would be reasonable and that 36 hours would be too little."
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http://www.appleinsider.com/article...why_hours_are_being_cut_after_fla_review.html
 
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