Tim Cook on the AppleTV

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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http://www.zdnet.com/tim-cook-on-tvs-the-interface-is-terrible-i-mean-its-awful-7000033667/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBMo8Oz9jsQ

"TV is one that we continue to have great interest in. I choose my words carefully there. TV is one of those things that, if we’re really honest, it’s stuck back in the seventies," said Apple CEO Tim Cook during an appearance on the Charlie Rose show.

"Think about how much your life has changed, and all the things around you that has changed. And yet TV, when you go in your living room to watch the TV, or wherever it might be, it almost feels like you’re rewinding the clock and you’ve entered a time capsule and you’re going backwards. The interface is terrible. I mean, it's awful!"

I agree with the author...what kind of television is he using?! Stuck in the 70's? Let's take a look at today's technology:

1. Inexpensive, large, energy-efficient, ultra-thin flatscreen televisions (50" LED for as low as $399 these days) & projectors (under $600 for a tiny HD LED projector with a 10-year bulb life)
2. Variety of fun gaming consoles & computers, including all kinds of motion controls like Kinect & Wii
3. Tons of set-top boxes (Android-based, Roku, Amazon, Popcorn Hour, WDTV, etc.)
4. Universal remotes, including Logitech's Harmony line, which even offers smartphone control
5. Roku lets you add a zillion channels such as Plex, Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, VUDU, Redbox, etc.
6. DVR's with live channel listings, including remote viewing on your tablet, remotely setting up shows to record, browsing from your smartphone, etc.
7. Voice search on the Amazon FireTV

Then you have the AppleTV. No games. Can't add apps. No voice search. No 4K. Who exactly is stuck in the seventies here?!

I suspect Apple hasn't made much progress on the TV front because they want to control TV like they control music, but between the Hollywood & Cable empires, they've probably been shot down time after time. They took over the music industry, and they're in the process of taking over the payments industry, so it will be interesting to see how they make out in the future with movies & TV shows with companies like Netflix & Amazon producing their own (highly respected) shows these days.

Movies are a bit of a different animal because you can easily burn through $100 million dollars on a big-budget movie, and you rely on a lot of advertising & merchandising to fund it, versus say music where you can basically write a song for free & make money off it through airplay advertising on the radio. And to be fair, even Microsoft hasn't landed a solid IPTV deal in the states, so it's not like anyone else is winning over the market with their digital technologies.

I do agree that the TV interface could use some work, but they are getting better. $129 gets you a Logitech Harmony IR blaster, simple physical remote, and smartphone remote app. Plenty of other universal remotes out there as well. A lot of things can be controlled through a surround-sound receiver via CEC (plus Bluetooth, Airplay, etc. built-in) these days. The only thing I have plugged into my home TV's is a Roku box...I use Netflix & Amazon for streaming, VUDU for rentals or purchases, and Plex for LAN streaming of my own movies (plus a few other misc apps).

Anyway, imo Apple had their chance & blew it, just like the iWatch. I think if they had come out with the iWatch before stuff like the FitBit existed, that would have been amazing...pedometer, GPS tracking, GPS directions, heartrate monitor, sleep tracking, movement tracking, and so on. But that's old hat now, just like how the Roku has been around for awhile, lets you add your own apps, etc. Or maybe if they had integrated a smarthome controller like the Wink Hub into the Apple TV (or Airport Extreme wireless router) or something.

But I don't really see Apple making a dedicated TV, or integrating an AppleTV box into a television (that would get outdated quickly), or doing much other than opening up the iOS for ATV platform to add some third-party apps & games. It'd be cool if they did that, because a lot of the stuff I want to play are just basic fun games that can be thrown up on the TV for kids, without having to get a dedicated gaming console for hundreds of dollars.

Anyway, just opening it up for discussion since Cook had some interesting remarks on Apple & the TV platform recently.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
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I still think Apple is going to come out with 4K TV. Regular $99 AppleTV doesn't have enough gross margin for Apple's interest. I see the $99 AppleTV as testing area/project for Apple for their future 4K TV integration. Premium TV market is what Apple is interested in and what better time to introduce a TV then 4K upgrade cycle.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,566
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I still think Apple is going to come out with 4K TV. Regular $99 AppleTV doesn't have enough gross margin for Apple's interest. I see the $99 AppleTV as testing area/project for Apple for their future 4K TV integration. Premium TV market is what Apple is interested in and what better time to introduce a TV then 4K upgrade cycle.

I have a hard time seeing that. Televisions are so cheap these days. I have a bunch of 4K Seiki televisions that I use for business projects that were all stupid cheap with pretty good picture quality. I mean, the 50" 4K Seiki is only $449 on Amazon right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SE50UY04.../dp/B00BXF7I9M

That's pretty ridiculous! And most people don't care about super-awesome picture quality, they care about price - those cheap Vizios sell like crazy!

Plus, everyone already has a TV. I'm not going to get rid of my existing 60" DLP or HD projector just because Apple comes out with one that has an integrated AppleTV, you know? Unless they're going to somehow undercut Netflix for $8 a month or do some sort of IPTV scheme at a reduced price over buying a monthly cable or satellite service, I don't really see that taking off. They'd have to have some kind of killer partnership going on...
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
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Which is why I think it will be a mistake if Apple comes with 4K Apple TV. Apple might be able to sell it initially due to the hype but I can see them struggle later on as 4K TV prices drop big time. The only thing good about the $99 AppleTV is the AirPlay. The rest of the software stinks. Having apps will not change that.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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I am a fairly unapologetic Apple whore, but I already have a Samsung F8500, and even if that beauty conked out, I would have no particularly heightened interest in buying an Apple-branded TV over any other manufacturer.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
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I agree with the author...what kind of television is he using?! Stuck in the 70's? Let's take a look at today's technology:

It's a fucking mess. If I want to watch professional sports, I need to have a cable provider that includes ESPN, or NBCSN, or the local cable sports channel. If I want to watch a movie, I have to have Netflix, or Hulu, or Amazon Prime, or a HBO, which requires a cable provider. It all boils down to bundling and the distributors getting you to pay for more than you want to consume.

I don't know what Apple can possibly do to unfuck all that. Maybe sign distribution agreements with all the major studios, the roughly 120 NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL franchises, the 4 tennis Major Tournaments, The Major Golf Tournaments, NASCAR, EPL, La Liga, etc. etc. etc.? Now that would be epic.
 

rsutoratosu

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2011
2,716
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I love air play.. i hate when my kids are hogging the ipad so close to their face, i air play it or use the ipad as remote and use youtube directly off apple tv.. that little remote sucks.

Wife streams her hong kong / korean drama on it
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
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http://www.zdnet.com/tim-cook-on-tvs-the-interface-is-terrible-i-mean-its-awful-7000033667/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBMo8Oz9jsQ



I agree with the author...what kind of television is he using?! Stuck in the 70's? Let's take a look at today's technology:

I think the quote was taken out of context. I think he was talking about the way TV content is delivered. A bunch of numbered channels, programs airing at certain times, etc. Even if you have a cable box, the interface for accessing content is still generally bad. If it wasn't for football, a TV would simply be a monitor to me, but content providers want it to be essentially like it was 50 years ago. Most people don't actually use a streaming box. AppleTV has 20 million subs, Roku around 8-10 mil. Some have some kind of dvr, but Tivo only has less than one million subscribers. Its really a drop in the bucket compared to how people watch TV the traditional way. Most people probably just have the basic cable box between them and the TV set. I think the problem he is eluding alluding to is dealing with content providers, not technology.
 
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Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,313
7
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It's a fucking mess. If I want to watch professional sports, I need to have a cable provider that includes ESPN, or NBCSN, or the local cable sports channel. If I want to watch a movie, I have to have Netflix, or Hulu, or Amazon Prime, or a HBO, which requires a cable provider. It all boils down to bundling and the distributors getting you to pay for more than you want to consume.

I don't know what Apple can possibly do to unfuck all that. Maybe sign distribution agreements with all the major studios, the roughly 120 NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL franchises, the 4 tennis Major Tournaments, The Major Golf Tournaments, NASCAR, EPL, La Liga, etc. etc. etc.? Now that would be epic.

Networks that try to make these kinds of deals usually get blackmailed by the cable companies. Even the NFL has to capitulate to the cable companies. I was looking at their online streaming service, and its obviously not would it could be to prevent cannibalization of the traditional revenue model. It still might be worth it, but there'd no reason why the full NFL Sunday Ticket couldn't be a standalone online service.
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,571
3
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TVs are stuck in the 70s in terms of content delivery. DVR is a workaround to make the delivery process a little less terrible. On demand content from your TV provider is on the right track except no one uses it because the selection is terrible or the cost is terrible. Netflix is pretty good as well except its selection is limited again by the content providers and cannot show live content.

So yes, there's room for improvement but it shows that it's hard for even Apple to get things to change.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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If I want to watch professional sports, I need to have a cable provider that includes ESPN, or NBCSN, or the local cable sports channel. If I want to watch a movie, I have to have Netflix, or Hulu, or Amazon Prime, or a HBO, which requires a cable provider. It all boils down to bundling and the distributors getting you to pay for more than you want to consume.

Hmm, that's an excellent point. The biggest complaints I've heard are from sports users. My biggest complaint is exactly that - cross-network usage. For example, I got on a Netflix binge for the Walking Dead. But the new season was only available on Amazon. So I had to buy it on Amazon, then stream it from that app instead on my Roku. Minor headache, but good example. So it sounds like there are 2 issues:

1. Control issues
2. Content accessibility issues

Control issues being you have to either have 6 remotes or program a universal remote. I think that Logitech has more or less solved this with their Harmony line. Content accessibility is more tricky. Roku is nice because you can get ALL the apps on it, but not necessarily all live TV type of stuff like sports events. Amazon is cool because you voice-search, but they block some things out of the search results because they obviously want you to buy & stream from them. So being able to both control AND access everything easily would definitely be a plus!
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
It's a fucking mess. If I want to watch professional sports, I need to have a cable provider that includes ESPN, or NBCSN, or the local cable sports channel. If I want to watch a movie, I have to have Netflix, or Hulu, or Amazon Prime, or a HBO, which requires a cable provider. It all boils down to bundling and the distributors getting you to pay for more than you want to consume.

I don't know what Apple can possibly do to unfuck all that. Maybe sign distribution agreements with all the major studios, the roughly 120 NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL franchises, the 4 tennis Major Tournaments, The Major Golf Tournaments, NASCAR, EPL, La Liga, etc. etc. etc.? Now that would be epic.

Apple almost single handedly dragged the music industry into the 21st century. Yet nobody has successfully done so with television. I think it might even be beyond their means. Problem is the cable companies both control the content and delivery method. They don't want people streaming, because they want you to pay for BOTH cable TV and internet. Of course lack of a legal alternative to cable is a big reason why piracy of video content is still such a big problem.

Here's the Oatmeal's take on it that sums up the issue perfectly.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,664
202
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I think the quote was taken out of context.

Yep. He was talking about the UI, not hardware options.

He also said "You watch things when they come on unless you remember to record them." Which, in my mind is a more telling quote that hints to what Apple may have planned.

-KeithP
 
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