Tillman friendly fire investigation raises more questions than answers

[Acanthus]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_re_us/inquest_for_a_warrior

It looks like all of the soldiers failed to identify their targets before firing, and an afghan providing cover fire for the US may have sparked the incident because he was using an AK-47, the favored weapon of the enemy.

 

[Medellon]

Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

 

[Acanthus]

Because often FF isnt an accident.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

 

[Medellon]

So they have reason to belive that this was no accident? Excuse my ignorance of guns, warfare, and such, but how can they know it was 3 bullets? Wouldn't 1 shot from a high powered weapon prevent any further evidence?

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Yeah, I saw it too. It was pretty thourogh.

Fern

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Don't spin it. Yes it was FF, but it could be a conspiracy to cover it up. Even his brother's SEAL friend got fked over when he gave a speech that was spoon fed to him by some guy he didn't know.

Sure you may not be able to prove a conspiracy without a proper investigation (outside of the military establishment and politics) but that's also the point. WTF are they doing writing a half dozen reports? The first two is understandable... the rest is not.

 

[ProfJohn]

FF is a part of war, always has been.

Compare our FF rates now to WW 2, there has been a HUGE improvement.
On D-day destroyers blasted the hell out of a village the Americans had already taken.

War is an ugly business, mistakes happen.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
FF is a part of war, always has been.

Compare our FF rates now to WW 2, there has been a HUGE improvement.
On D-day destroyers blasted the hell out of a village the Americans had already taken.

War is an ugly business, mistakes happen.

3 FF 50cal rounds in the head is a mistake?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Yeah and said guys burned ALL the evidence. Sorry if I dont believe those who shot him and then tried to cover it up.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
FF is a part of war, always has been.

Compare our FF rates now to WW 2, there has been a HUGE improvement.
On D-day destroyers blasted the hell out of a village the Americans had already taken.

War is an ugly business, mistakes happen.

Yeah but there is proper protocal in targeting which they didnt do. Then there is the burning of all the evidence. Sorry, but it sounds way to fishy to me. Not to mention the fact, they tried to give him CPR five hours AFTER he died? Yeah sorry, but those guys should be serving 15+ years in military prison.

Lets no fail to mention, they then proceeded to randomly shoot women and children the next day.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Don't spin it. Yes it was FF, but it could be a conspiracy to cover it up. Even his brother's SEAL friend got fked over when he gave a speech that was spoon fed to him by some guy he didn't know.

Sure you may not be able to prove a conspiracy without a proper investigation (outside of the military establishment and politics) but that's also the point. WTF are they doing writing a half dozen reports? The first two is understandable... the rest is not.

Because the first three where white washed. IE: covered up. Its taken this long to get this little nugget of information. This wasnt a simple case of FF. At best it was gross negligence at worst it was cold blooded murder. IIRC one of the investigators still feels like it could have been a US sniper that killed him.

Since it was covered up from the get go, burning evidence, false statements, etc, there is no way to know what really happened.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
FF is a part of war, always has been.

Compare our FF rates now to WW 2, there has been a HUGE improvement.
On D-day destroyers blasted the hell out of a village the Americans had already taken.

War is an ugly business, mistakes happen.

A half dozen reports is not a mistake. It's a clusterfvck at the very least and a conspiracy at the very worst.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Don't spin it. Yes it was FF, but it could be a conspiracy to cover it up. Even his brother's SEAL friend got fked over when he gave a speech that was spoon fed to him by some guy he didn't know.

Sure you may not be able to prove a conspiracy without a proper investigation (outside of the military establishment and politics) but that's also the point. WTF are they doing writing a half dozen reports? The first two is understandable... the rest is not.

Because the first three where white washed. IE: covered up. Its taken this long to get this little nugget of information. This wasnt a simple case of FF. At best it was gross negligence at worst it was cold blooded murder. IIRC one of the investigators still feels like it could have been a US sniper that killed him.

Since it was covered up from the get go, burning evidence, false statements, etc, there is no way to know what really happened.

Assuming it was an assassination, which is what this implies, the only reasonable explaination I can think of is that he either heard or saw something and was going to report it. Coming from someone like him, with his background, it's not so much an aligation as a guaranteed coffin. So it's reasonable to think that if this was the case then someone may have had a reason to dispose of him.

Based on the evidence tempering and bullsh!t stories from those involved it does point to more than one person. No way one person could have pulled this all off while everyone else played dumb.

But that's just one viewpoint. We don't know for sure what happend and I don't think we ever will. Pathetic.

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

i've had some experience with firing turret-mounted 50cal. at different kind of targets in 'nam (some just for fun and sometimes not). let's just say it took a medium/long burst ~10 rds at 100m to chop a 8 inch thick tree in half with ball/tracer ammo. it took a short burst into the front end of a citroen to blow the hood open and demolish the engine. and although *i never did it on purpose*, hooved livestock got knocked over with ease (of which, uncle sam graciously recompensed the owners).

three "Ma Deuce" rounds to the head? thank goodness i haven't seen it personally, but i'd think the first round would knock anybody clean off their feet if hit standing, and given the slow cyclic rate of the 50, the trailing rounds would either be boring holes in air where the target was or off-target as to produce lesser damage. therefore i'd have to assume that the target was already immobilized or somehow pinned from the round that did the nasty and the other two rounds grazing the target. three 50cal rounds at close range if all on target would leave something i would rather not look at.

 

[Googer]

His brother wrote a recent blog entry about his brother.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/pat-tillman/kevin-tillman-shares-209264.php

 

[Perknose]

I don't know what happened that day, as much as I have read about it, and I can't come to hard and firm opinion on what to call what happened, but all I know is that the absoute damndest of f-ups happen in combat situations, and far more often than most civilian observers would ever believe in the cool, calm aftermath.

 

[marincounty]

But why has it taken four investigations to finally get close to the truth?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Don't spin it. Yes it was FF, but it could be a conspiracy to cover it up. Even his brother's SEAL friend got fked over when he gave a speech that was spoon fed to him by some guy he didn't know.

Sure you may not be able to prove a conspiracy without a proper investigation (outside of the military establishment and politics) but that's also the point. WTF are they doing writing a half dozen reports? The first two is understandable... the rest is not.

Because the first three where white washed. IE: covered up. Its taken this long to get this little nugget of information. This wasnt a simple case of FF. At best it was gross negligence at worst it was cold blooded murder. IIRC one of the investigators still feels like it could have been a US sniper that killed him.

Since it was covered up from the get go, burning evidence, false statements, etc, there is no way to know what really happened.

Assuming it was an assassination, which is what this implies, the only reasonable explaination I can think of is that he either heard or saw something and was going to report it. Coming from someone like him, with his background, it's not so much an aligation as a guaranteed coffin. So it's reasonable to think that if this was the case then someone may have had a reason to dispose of him.

Based on the evidence tempering and bullsh!t stories from those involved it does point to more than one person. No way one person could have pulled this all off while everyone else played dumb.

But that's just one viewpoint. We don't know for sure what happend and I don't think we ever will. Pathetic.

Well we do know the same group of people shot women and children so anything is possible in this case.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Don't spin it. Yes it was FF, but it could be a conspiracy to cover it up. Even his brother's SEAL friend got fked over when he gave a speech that was spoon fed to him by some guy he didn't know.

Sure you may not be able to prove a conspiracy without a proper investigation (outside of the military establishment and politics) but that's also the point. WTF are they doing writing a half dozen reports? The first two is understandable... the rest is not.

Because the first three where white washed. IE: covered up. Its taken this long to get this little nugget of information. This wasnt a simple case of FF. At best it was gross negligence at worst it was cold blooded murder. IIRC one of the investigators still feels like it could have been a US sniper that killed him.

Since it was covered up from the get go, burning evidence, false statements, etc, there is no way to know what really happened.

Assuming it was an assassination, which is what this implies, the only reasonable explaination I can think of is that he either heard or saw something and was going to report it. Coming from someone like him, with his background, it's not so much an aligation as a guaranteed coffin. So it's reasonable to think that if this was the case then someone may have had a reason to dispose of him.

Based on the evidence tempering and bullsh!t stories from those involved it does point to more than one person. No way one person could have pulled this all off while everyone else played dumb.

But that's just one viewpoint. We don't know for sure what happend and I don't think we ever will. Pathetic.

Well we do know the same group of people shot women and children so anything is possible in this case.

At this point I wouldn't rule anything out. That would be foolish.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Don't spin it. Yes it was FF, but it could be a conspiracy to cover it up. Even his brother's SEAL friend got fked over when he gave a speech that was spoon fed to him by some guy he didn't know.

Sure you may not be able to prove a conspiracy without a proper investigation (outside of the military establishment and politics) but that's also the point. WTF are they doing writing a half dozen reports? The first two is understandable... the rest is not.

Because the first three where white washed. IE: covered up. Its taken this long to get this little nugget of information. This wasnt a simple case of FF. At best it was gross negligence at worst it was cold blooded murder. IIRC one of the investigators still feels like it could have been a US sniper that killed him.

Since it was covered up from the get go, burning evidence, false statements, etc, there is no way to know what really happened.

Assuming it was an assassination, which is what this implies, the only reasonable explaination I can think of is that he either heard or saw something and was going to report it. Coming from someone like him, with his background, it's not so much an aligation as a guaranteed coffin. So it's reasonable to think that if this was the case then someone may have had a reason to dispose of him.

Based on the evidence tempering and bullsh!t stories from those involved it does point to more than one person. No way one person could have pulled this all off while everyone else played dumb.

But that's just one viewpoint. We don't know for sure what happend and I don't think we ever will. Pathetic.

Well we do know the same group of people shot women and children so anything is possible in this case.

The Tillman brothers shot women and children? Please link that or quit spouting lies about those men. You look dumber every post.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Medellon
Okay so the Army covered up the truth about Pat Tillman's death. We have long known he was killed in a friendly fire incident which was tragic. Why is there still so much discussion about the incident?

Because he died from three shots to the forehead, and those that shot him said they couldnt identify him because of "vision" problems.

Either you are fvcking luckiest person on earth and should buy a lottery ticket now. Or you are fvcking liar and knew who you were shooting. I suspect it's the latter.

Its obvious it was more than just friendly fire.

I didn't read the article but saw the special on the incident. Many of his fellow soldiers were interviewed and said he was hit w/ 50cal bullets. I have a hard time believing that you would be able to ID someone and count 3 hits in the head from those.

They were shooting into the sun. The guy said he had "tunnel vision" and was completely focused on the AK-47. Tillman happened to be standing right next to him.

After seeing the interviews, it was friendly fire and not a conspiracy.

Don't spin it. Yes it was FF, but it could be a conspiracy to cover it up. Even his brother's SEAL friend got fked over when he gave a speech that was spoon fed to him by some guy he didn't know.

Sure you may not be able to prove a conspiracy without a proper investigation (outside of the military establishment and politics) but that's also the point. WTF are they doing writing a half dozen reports? The first two is understandable... the rest is not.

Because the first three where white washed. IE: covered up. Its taken this long to get this little nugget of information. This wasnt a simple case of FF. At best it was gross negligence at worst it was cold blooded murder. IIRC one of the investigators still feels like it could have been a US sniper that killed him.

Since it was covered up from the get go, burning evidence, false statements, etc, there is no way to know what really happened.

Assuming it was an assassination, which is what this implies, the only reasonable explaination I can think of is that he either heard or saw something and was going to report it. Coming from someone like him, with his background, it's not so much an aligation as a guaranteed coffin. So it's reasonable to think that if this was the case then someone may have had a reason to dispose of him.

Based on the evidence tempering and bullsh!t stories from those involved it does point to more than one person. No way one person could have pulled this all off while everyone else played dumb.

But that's just one viewpoint. We don't know for sure what happend and I don't think we ever will. Pathetic.

Well we do know the same group of people shot women and children so anything is possible in this case.

The Tillman brothers shot women and children? Please link that or quit spouting lies about those men. You look dumber every post.

Man you are the one that looks dumb. Do you know how to read?

No, the people that killed Tillman, have been confirmed to have also shot women and children, while injuring another two of our own. A dead US Solider, a dead Afghan fighter, two wounded US Soliders, and dead women and children. All by the same people. All in the span of a day.

 

[flavio]

Hey, this is an interesting story. Is there some info on the women and children that were shot?

 

[beyoku]

If i was a killer, and i shot him, this is something i would do with his body to joke with the army buddies that shot him too.

A field hospital report says someone tried to jump-start Tillman's heart with CPR hours after his head had been partly blown off and his corpse wrapped in a poncho; key evidence including Tillman's body armor and uniform was burned.

WTF...