tight bass.............fast bass............quick bass.................sigh

[Viperoni]

Indeed Shockwave, 500hz would be quite low. Probably doable with a 24db/octave XO, but I would anticipate a lot of distortion in the 250-750hz range @ high power levels. I have considered the Adire 10.1 coaxial speakers, but I don't really need the high efficiency, and I eventually plan on building a completely matching HT setup. But I may keep seperate music speakers.... or maybe not. Who knows

I would like to think I delivered some ownage. I mean, you can't call Diana Krall a basshead, but you can call me one

 

[NightCrawler]

Originally posted by: Viperoni
nan0bug,

I believe I have found your studio.

http://www.avatarstudios.net/rooms/studio_b.html

The subwoofer is a Bag End.... 18inches.

The best part is that the speakers, Urei 813 b's, are a coaxial 12inch woofer with a horn tweeter in the middle.

Proof of use of said studio by some big non-basshead music groups:
http://www.audioworld.com/stat/news/0302/07.avatar.studios.grammy.nominations.shtml



Now let's think about this one a little bit futher (I'm going to debunk you're whole "bigger is worse" arguement, yet again).

Your claim is that a large subwoofer cannot reproduce 100hz midbass stuff accurately.
But the studio uses speakers with 12inch woofers mating to coaxially mounted horn tweeters.
Let's assume the crossover point between the woofer and horn is disturbingly low at 500hz.

So if you're claiming that a large speaker can't reproduce 100hz properly, how can a STUDIO use a 12incher all the way up to 500hz?????



Incase it hasn't become obvious, I can throw your BS right back at you all day long, but the smell is starting to get to me. You, OTOH, seem quite content with it.

LOL....you wouldn't believe the stuff that gets used in studio's everything from very high end to very low end. Also nobody said that 12" couldn't reproduce 100 hertz well, the arguement was that making a big sub like 18" play both low 16 hertz and then go up to 100 hertz can make the bass muddy sounding.

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: Viperoni
nan0bug,

I believe I have found your studio.

http://www.avatarstudios.net/rooms/studio_b.html

The subwoofer is a Bag End.... 18inches.

The best part is that the speakers, Urei 813 b's, are a coaxial 12inch woofer with a horn tweeter in the middle.

Proof of use of said studio by some big non-basshead music groups:
http://www.audioworld.com/stat/news/0302/07.avatar.studios.grammy.nominations.shtml

Now let's think about this one a little bit futher (I'm going to debunk you're whole "bigger is worse" arguement, yet again).

Your claim is that a large subwoofer cannot reproduce 100hz midbass stuff accurately.
But the studio uses speakers with 12inch woofers mating to coaxially mounted horn tweeters.
Let's assume the crossover point between the woofer and horn is disturbingly low at 500hz.

So if you're claiming that a large speaker can't reproduce 100hz properly, how can a STUDIO use a 12incher all the way up to 500hz?????



Incase it hasn't become obvious, I can throw your BS right back at you all day long, but the smell is starting to get to me. You, OTOH, seem quite content with it.

Look at the pictures. See those monitors right above the console? Those arent 12"s. Those are 8"s, maybe even 6"s. But I guess they're just for show, right?

heres a list of their monitors from here

Monitors

Auratones
Dynaudio BSM15
E/V Sentry 100
Genelec 1031A*
KRK 7000
Mackie HR824*
Pro Ac 100 Studio*
Tannoy DMT System 1200*
Yamaha MSP-10
Yamaha NS-10M
Yamaha NS-10 Studio

*Rental Items

They have 4 different studios there. You chose one that happens to have an 18" subwoofer in it. What you neglected to mention is that all 4 of the rooms are networked together, and that studio D is where the mixdown happens. So in that one room, they have an 18in subwoofer. Ever consider that maybe that one room is where they do bass heavy stuff?

As far as the 12" woofers go, like I said above, I guess the smaller speakers are just there to look pretty, right? I mean, while we're making assumptions.

 

why argue, alot of the statements here are true...just not in all speakers
a speakers performance (spl, frequency range, tightness, response, etc) are on a curve - not a straight line

while X brand/model 18in sub may produce clean sound and a wide frequency spectrum - that same sub won't produce high SPL
tight bass and sound quality is directly related to the surround and spider of the woofer (the suspension of the cone) and the precision of the motor structure (magnet, pole, voice coil, cone)

model Y 18in sub may produce extremely high SPL, it's massive magnet and voice coil produce 2 inches of excursion, which means the spider and surround have to stretch ALOT...which means that the cone will not be as tight in the surround and spider - hence the "looser" bass and not perfectly accurate frequency reproduction

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: jntdesign
why argue, alot of the statements here are true...just not in all speakers
a speakers performance (spl, frequency range, tightness, response, etc) are on a curve - not a straight line

while X brand/model 18in sub may produce clean sound and a wide frequency spectrum - that same sub won't produce high SPL
tight bass and sound quality is directly related to the surround and spider of the woofer (the suspension of the cone) and the precision of the motor structure (magnet, pole, voice coil, cone)

model Y 18in sub may produce extremely high SPL, it's massive magnet and voice coil produce 2 inches of excursion, which means the spider and surround have to stretch ALOT...which means that the cone will not be as tight in the surround and spider - hence the "looser" bass and not perfectly accurate frequency reproduction

2 inches? Thats it?? My 12" sub could spank out more travel then that!

 

what'd you do, tear the surround off?

2 inches of excursion is 4 inches of travel...thats alot

 

the mtx rfl gets 4.35 inches of peak to peak travel......
http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/RFL.cfm

 

but i guess it depends on the definition of excursion....if it means peak to peak, 2 inches isn't much

i thought it meant at rest to peak though :\

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: jntdesign
what'd you do, tear the surround off?

2 inches of excursion is 4 inches of travel...thats alot

OH! No, mine is 2 inches peak to peak. 1.04 one way.

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: nan0bug

Originally posted by: Viperoni
nan0bug,

I believe I have found your studio.

http://www.avatarstudios.net/rooms/studio_b.html

The subwoofer is a Bag End.... 18inches.

The best part is that the speakers, Urei 813 b's, are a coaxial 12inch woofer with a horn tweeter in the middle.

Proof of use of said studio by some big non-basshead music groups:
http://www.audioworld.com/stat/news/0302/07.avatar.studios.grammy.nominations.shtml

Now let's think about this one a little bit futher (I'm going to debunk you're whole "bigger is worse" arguement, yet again).

Your claim is that a large subwoofer cannot reproduce 100hz midbass stuff accurately.
But the studio uses speakers with 12inch woofers mating to coaxially mounted horn tweeters.
Let's assume the crossover point between the woofer and horn is disturbingly low at 500hz.

So if you're claiming that a large speaker can't reproduce 100hz properly, how can a STUDIO use a 12incher all the way up to 500hz?????



Incase it hasn't become obvious, I can throw your BS right back at you all day long, but the smell is starting to get to me. You, OTOH, seem quite content with it.

Look at the pictures. See those monitors right above the console? Those arent 12"s. Those are 8"s, maybe even 6"s. But I guess they're just for show, right?

heres a list of their monitors from here

Monitors

Auratones
Dynaudio BSM15
E/V Sentry 100
Genelec 1031A*
KRK 7000
Mackie HR824*
Pro Ac 100 Studio*
Tannoy DMT System 1200*
Yamaha MSP-10
Yamaha NS-10M
Yamaha NS-10 Studio

*Rental Items

They have 4 different studios there. You chose one that happens to have an 18" subwoofer in it. What you neglected to mention is that all 4 of the rooms are networked together, and that studio D is where the mixdown happens. So in that one room, they have an 18in subwoofer. Ever consider that maybe that one room is where they do bass heavy stuff?

As far as the 12" woofers go, like I said above, I guess the smaller speakers are just there to look pretty, right? I mean, while we're making assumptions.

Sure, but for a STUDIO to use an 18" sub in the first place.... and this isn't some POS basement studio either.
If it's good enough to be used in a studio, it can't suck. That means 18"s can't suck for bass.
/ignorant stubborness.

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: jntdesign
why argue, alot of the statements here are true...just not in all speakers
a speakers performance (spl, frequency range, tightness, response, etc) are on a curve - not a straight line

while X brand/model 18in sub may produce clean sound and a wide frequency spectrum - that same sub won't produce high SPL
tight bass and sound quality is directly related to the surround and spider of the woofer (the suspension of the cone) and the precision of the motor structure (magnet, pole, voice coil, cone)

model Y 18in sub may produce extremely high SPL, it's massive magnet and voice coil produce 2 inches of excursion, which means the spider and surround have to stretch ALOT...which means that the cone will not be as tight in the surround and spider - hence the "looser" bass and not perfectly accurate frequency reproduction

/Falls over and dies.

Debunking Sub X arguement: http://www.eminence.com/eminence/pages/products02/speakpro/kilo18.htm
High efficiency 18" with sufficiently clean FR to support an 600hz crossover point to a large midrange horn, while having a 93db/watt sensitivity spec with a 1250w power handling and a 9.8mm Xmax.
It goes loud.
It's got good FR.
It handles a ton of power.
It has a fairly low voice coil inductance, obviously, since it has good FR.

Debunking Sub Y arguement: Who's to say that a sub with a 2inch Xsus has to have a loose suspension? SPL subs typically have disturbingly stiff susnepsions while being capable of excursions of up to 2 inches. Treo CSX comes to mind.
Your assumption is that a tight suspension is neccessary for "tight" bass, that's not true. Many home music speakers have very loose suspensions and provide very accurate bass.
That's like saying a road racing car with a relatively soft suspension won't handle crisply, when in fact, a softer suspension allows more weight transfer and may provide more grip than a tighter suspension that doesn't allow as much weight transfer.

 

the site you linked to was created in frontpage...
if you're going to debunk a theory, at least use a reputable source

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: jntdesign
the site you linked to was created in frontpage...
if you're going to debunk a theory, at least use a reputable source

lol, you're picking on how the website was made. Does it matter?
I suppose I should have linked to a retailer that sells the drivers instead of linking directly to the company that sells them instead?

 

any audio company that has a frontpage built website is considered mickey mouse by me

you know how they have those audio shows at colliseums where you can get no-name stuff really cheap --- the advertised specs of that no-name stuff are often much better looking than the specs of brand name stuff
you know why? cuz they're wrong

 

[NightCrawler]

Eminence sucks !

 

[Viperoni]

jntdesign, I guess any sub that doesn't look good can't sound very good either

notice how the specs on the sub are actually T/S specs, that tell how the sub works, not stupid stuff like 'UBER MEGA KHROME BASKET, BIG MAGNET FOR MONSTER BASS", etc etc. But of course, if you knew what T/S specs were and what they stand for, you wouldn't have said what you said.

Nightcrawler, Eminence is the biggest subwoofer build house in the USA. They make tons of pro audio woofers, and even more drivers for guitar cabinets. They also make the compression drivers for many horn tweeters as well.
To say that Eminence sucks would be to say that quite a few pro audio speakers suck as well. If I'm not mistaken, Eminence also has a contract with EV.

 

[Yax]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
Some things to think about:

1. FS

As a NightCrawler, you are right to be afraid of Bass.

 

[MikeMike]

uhoh, mikey found a linky

proving the exact fact, that cone mass has nothing to do with cleanliness, given the correct motor.

MIKE

 

[BillyGoat]

Eminence sucks?
You sir are an idiot.
They make some of the best high end speakers for musicians. Most high quality guitar cabinets are loaded with eminence or celestion drivers.

 

[Shockwave]

Hey, what do you guys think of Hovland MusiCaps? Worth the money?

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
uhoh, mikey found a linky

proving the exact fact, that cone mass has nothing to do with cleanliness, given the correct motor.

MIKE

I posted that a few days ago in the big@ss "10 or 12inch woofer" thread.

Not only cone mass, but also cone size as well, since you're typical 18" subwoofer will not experience cone break up until wayyy past what a subwoofer should be playing anyhow.

 

[NightCrawler]

Originally posted by: BillyGoat0
Eminence sucks?
You sir are an idiot.
They make some of the best high end speakers for musicians. Most high quality guitar cabinets are loaded with eminence or celestion drivers.

Marshall amps that come with celestion drivers

 

[NightCrawler]

Originally posted by: Viperoni

Nightcrawler, Eminence is the biggest subwoofer build house in the USA. They make tons of pro audio woofers, and even more drivers for guitar cabinets. They also make the compression drivers for many horn tweeters as well.
To say that Eminence sucks would be to say that quite a few pro audio speakers suck as well. If I'm not mistaken, Eminence also has a contract with EV.

I prefer JBL ....

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler

Originally posted by: Viperoni

Nightcrawler, Eminence is the biggest subwoofer build house in the USA. They make tons of pro audio woofers, and even more drivers for guitar cabinets. They also make the compression drivers for many horn tweeters as well.
To say that Eminence sucks would be to say that quite a few pro audio speakers suck as well. If I'm not mistaken, Eminence also has a contract with EV.

I prefer JBL ....

We're talking about bass, not what kind of drivers you prefer.

 

[MaxDepth]

FS? I know too many acronyms.

Front side?
Forcepital speculuus?
Free show?
fart sniffer?