Thumbprint identification on the fly.

[oldman420]

I have noticed that voting systems are hard to secure and at the same time remain anonymous,esp the new electronic systems.

I think that one good way to prevent problems esp in third world countries would be a biometric fingerprint scan while voting, this digitized thumbprint could then be stored temporarily in a central database in a monster computer somewhere.

When the polls close the database is deleted and the scan engine finds duplicate prints and deletes all but one each, IMO this would eliminate errors and double votes while maintaining personal privacy.

could a super computer do this accurately with todays tech? thumbprint scanners are easy to integrate and readily available.

Thank you

 

[Cogman]

Actually that is a pretty good Idea, however, the problem would lie in the acuracy. The super computer could handle it, but voters could easily pass it by changing the shape of their thumb (maybe just putting one side of the thumb down instead of the other) It is also possible that someone has a simular enough finger print that it gets deleted.

I like the idea, but I doubt it will every happen.

I would think it would be wise to take it a step further though. An Iris scan is a little more acurate then a thumb scanner, each voting station could have a main computer and an Iris scanner. All voters would be passed through the Iris scanner and their Identity checked. Each Computer would report back to a main supercomputer that would determine wether or not Preson X had voted, if they had then they would be escorted out. This, however, would require an EXTREMELY large amout of bandwidth from the voter computers to the supercomputer. Thinking of it, this is a perfect job for a quantum computer. it could check all possibilities at once and then return true of false.

 

[Mayax]

For starters, flies can't vote. Second, it would cost way too much money to install scanners capable of reading a fly's print on such a massive scale. Lastly, I'm not sure if flies even have identifiable prints let alone thumbs.

 

Originally posted by: Cogman
Actually that is a pretty good Idea, however, the problem would lie in the acuracy. The super computer could handle it, but voters could easily pass it by changing the shape of their thumb (maybe just putting one side of the thumb down instead of the other) It is also possible that someone has a simular enough finger print that it gets deleted.

I like the idea, but I doubt it will every happen.

I would think it would be wise to take it a step further though. An Iris scan is a little more acurate then a thumb scanner, each voting station could have a main computer and an Iris scanner. All voters would be passed through the Iris scanner and their Identity checked. Each Computer would report back to a main supercomputer that would determine wether or not Preson X had voted, if they had then they would be escorted out. This, however, would require an EXTREMELY large amout of bandwidth from the voter computers to the supercomputer. Thinking of it, this is a perfect job for a quantum computer. it could check all possibilities at once and then return true of false.

I wouldn't worry about similar fingerprints....to date, using current print ID, no one has had the same fingerprint as someone else when you ID 7 points on it...in court, they require 12 different points.

Many prosecuters would rather go to court with a really solid thumbprint than even DNA evidence. Someone who simply turns it upside down would still have the same ID marks on their thumb.

 

[oldman420]

Originally posted by: Mayax
For starters, flies can't vote. Second, it would cost way too much money to install scanners capable of reading a fly's print on such a massive scale. Lastly, I'm not sure if flies even have identifiable prints let alone thumbs.

Just WTF are you talking about.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: Mayax
For starters, flies can't vote. Second, it would cost way too much money to install scanners capable of reading a fly's print on such a massive scale. Lastly, I'm not sure if flies even have identifiable prints let alone thumbs.

Just WTF are you talking about.

Your thread title: "Thumbprint identification on the fly"

Sure, it may work. Sure iris scanners may work. But, implementing either would have a devastating effect on voting. The only way to delete a vote is to have a vote directly linked to either the person's thumb or iris print. Thus, anyone entering into such a voting situation may consider that their vote is NOT cast anonymously. All the claims in the world can be made that "no one will ever see the data", but the voters may not believe those claims.

I bring this issue up because you mentioned 3rd world countries. There are already instances of people being told who to vote for "or else." Lives are threatened. Anonymous voting is the only chance democracy has.

Suppose you have 2 choices on the ballot:
A. Ruthless dictator pretending to give democracy a chance so the U.S. will pour billions into his economy
B. Nice guy
Having witnessed how ruthless the dictator is, you realize that if you vote against him and he WINS, he's going to go through that voting machine, find everyone who voted against him, and chop off their heads.

Note: only half of the people have to realize this and thus vote for the ruthless guy, "just in case."

 

[oldman420]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: Mayax
For starters, flies can't vote. Second, it would cost way too much money to install scanners capable of reading a fly's print on such a massive scale. Lastly, I'm not sure if flies even have identifiable prints let alone thumbs.

Just WTF are you talking about.

Your thread title: "Thumbprint identification on the fly"

Sure, it may work. Sure iris scanners may work. But, implementing either would have a devastating effect on voting. The only way to delete a vote is to have a vote directly linked to either the person's thumb or iris print. Thus, anyone entering into such a voting situation may consider that their vote is NOT cast anonymously. All the claims in the world can be made that "no one will ever see the data", but the voters may not believe those claims.

I bring this issue up because you mentioned 3rd world countries. There are already instances of people being told who to vote for "or else." Lives are threatened. Anonymous voting is the only chance democracy has.

Suppose you have 2 choices on the ballot:
A. Ruthless dictator pretending to give democracy a chance so the U.S. will pour billions into his economy
B. Nice guy
Having witnessed how ruthless the dictator is, you realize that if you vote against him and he WINS, he's going to go through that voting machine, find everyone who voted against him, and chop off their heads.

Note: only half of the people have to realize this and thus vote for the ruthless guy, "just in case."

There would be no need to attach any info to the thumbprint as it would just be there to avoid duplicate votes.
I do not see why there would be any need to attach any info to the thumbprint save maybe a unique number generated by the prints scan info for catagorizing purposes.

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: Mayax
For starters, flies can't vote. Second, it would cost way too much money to install scanners capable of reading a fly's print on such a massive scale. Lastly, I'm not sure if flies even have identifiable prints let alone thumbs.

Just WTF are you talking about.

It was a joke that went way high.

 

[TuxDave]

What ever happened with linking social security with the votes on a nationwide scale? So all duplicate social security numbers and invalid social security number votes are removed. The only thing you gotta deal with is how to keep dead people from being registered.

 

[oldman420]

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: Mayax
For starters, flies can't vote. Second, it would cost way too much money to install scanners capable of reading a fly's print on such a massive scale. Lastly, I'm not sure if flies even have identifiable prints let alone thumbs.

Just WTF are you talking about.

It was a joke that went way high.

whoosh😱

 

[jagec]

third world and expensive, technologically complex voting systems? Doubtful.

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: Mayax
For starters, flies can't vote. Second, it would cost way too much money to install scanners capable of reading a fly's print on such a massive scale. Lastly, I'm not sure if flies even have identifiable prints let alone thumbs.

Just WTF are you talking about.

Your thread title: "Thumbprint identification on the fly"

Sure, it may work. Sure iris scanners may work. But, implementing either would have a devastating effect on voting. The only way to delete a vote is to have a vote directly linked to either the person's thumb or iris print. Thus, anyone entering into such a voting situation may consider that their vote is NOT cast anonymously. All the claims in the world can be made that "no one will ever see the data", but the voters may not believe those claims.

I bring this issue up because you mentioned 3rd world countries. There are already instances of people being told who to vote for "or else." Lives are threatened. Anonymous voting is the only chance democracy has.

Suppose you have 2 choices on the ballot:
A. Ruthless dictator pretending to give democracy a chance so the U.S. will pour billions into his economy
B. Nice guy
Having witnessed how ruthless the dictator is, you realize that if you vote against him and he WINS, he's going to go through that voting machine, find everyone who voted against him, and chop off their heads.

Note: only half of the people have to realize this and thus vote for the ruthless guy, "just in case."

There would be no need to attach any info to the thumbprint as it would just be there to avoid duplicate votes.
I do not see why there would be any need to attach any info to the thumbprint save maybe a unique number generated by the prints scan info for catagorizing purposes.

You would at some point need a national database of finger prints of every citizen in the country. I don't know about you, but the gov't doesn't get any more info on me than I can get away with. In fact, they don't even know where I live right now (not working). In a 3rd world country, who has actually experienced state brutality beyond cops with attitude, the people would be 100 times more paranoid than me.

And note that in Sierra Leone, the rebels actually did somehow get ahold of a list of people who voted against thier former "President," and they proceeded to cut off the hands that comitted this travesty.

Lesson: DO NOT GIVE BIG BROTHER MORE THAN HE NEEDS!!!!!

 

[thermalpaste]

Biometric technology as of today isn't exactly reliable. THird World countries do not have the infrastructure to spend on sophisticated biometric systems. Besides just having a very powerful computer to collect the database, there will be added costs for redundancy. TO protect data content, the data may have to be sent to the server in a scrambled /encrypted form. It is a very good idea, but it needs to be tested on a smaller scale for reliability and a third world country won't be able to afford one...........
(Here N. Korea, Sudan, Nigeria are classified by me as 3rd world countries and not China, India, Thialand, Indonesia etc...)

 

[PumpActionWalrus]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: Cogman
Actually that is a pretty good Idea, however, the problem would lie in the acuracy. The super computer could handle it, but voters could easily pass it by changing the shape of their thumb (maybe just putting one side of the thumb down instead of the other) It is also possible that someone has a simular enough finger print that it gets deleted.

I like the idea, but I doubt it will every happen.

I would think it would be wise to take it a step further though. An Iris scan is a little more acurate then a thumb scanner, each voting station could have a main computer and an Iris scanner. All voters would be passed through the Iris scanner and their Identity checked. Each Computer would report back to a main supercomputer that would determine wether or not Preson X had voted, if they had then they would be escorted out. This, however, would require an EXTREMELY large amout of bandwidth from the voter computers to the supercomputer. Thinking of it, this is a perfect job for a quantum computer. it could check all possibilities at once and then return true of false.

I wouldn't worry about similar fingerprints....to date, using current print ID, no one has had the same fingerprint as someone else when you ID 7 points on it...in court, they require 12 different points.

Many prosecuters would rather go to court with a really solid thumbprint than even DNA evidence. Someone who simply turns it upside down would still have the same ID marks on their thumb.

Maybe he meant the other thumb?

 

[Cattlegod]

what about blind people and people with missing limbs?

edit: blind i mean a glass eye