Thugs on display at Huntington Beach. A freakin surfing riot!

[justoh]

Yes I do and its the following attitude in P&N...

white people commit crimes
black people are criminals


Two vastly different statements. We all know who the players are.

Sorry, but i don't understand how those statements aren't equivalent? Why aren't people who commit crimes criminals?

 

[MiniDoom]

Obama voters.

 

[Geosurface]

Yes I do and its the following attitude in P&N...

white people commit crimes
black people are criminals

Well this all goes back to the classic suite of arguments which consists of:

• Cops pull black people over too much
• Blacks are convicted of the same crime more often and given harsher penalties
• Too many blacks are in prison
• People unfairly keep an eye on blacks in stores and view blacks suspiciously when it isn't warranted
• Black criminality is viewed as collective to all blacks in a way white criminality isn't viewed as indicating something about all whites

And it seems obvious you buy into this meme fully. I'm here to tell you that I think it is largely a mythology. Sort of... it's complicated. Allow me to explain.

It seems most people think about these issues at a depth of one layer, when in order to understand what's going on you need to think about them down at a depth of two or three layers.

If you just glance at a statistic saying blacks are pulled over by cops far more often, or stopped for "stop and frisk" far more often, or convicted of marijuana possession and given harsher sentences... etc, then yes you can come away with the reaction of "omg systemic racism!"

Let me take this moment to say I don't completely deny that there is systemic racism, I just don't think it's anywhere NEAR as bad or as significant of a factor as people make it out to be.

You have to look closer and think about it a little bit more.

If cops are pulling over people who are driving certain types of cars which are popular among hoodlums, particularly when it's accompanied by other factors like blasting bass music, possible erratic driving, someone slunk down in the driver's seat mean-mugging... possible weed smoke visible by the officer inside the vehicle, people within dressed a certain way associated with gang members, slow rolling past things in a way that looks like they might be scoping for an opportunity of some sort, etc etc...

Well, if those are things which are tripping a police officer's suspicion reaction, and prompting them to pull the person over, what happens if the cars which are fitting that description are driven by black men 90% of the time and Hispanics 9% of the time and whites 1% of the time? It's not that they aren't going to find those signifiers suspicious if it's white guys in the car... they will, and they'd pull him over too. It's not the police's fault that those sort of people cluster in a certain demographic, and are fairly rare in another one.

Same with stop and frisk, if the cops are primarily targeting guys who are wearing big coats, sagging their pants, fiddling with their waistband, and furtively looking around like they're trying to make sure nobody's watching them... or appear to be high on something, how is it the police's fault if there are way more people fitting that description in one demographic than another?

Now you could say that this is the police targeting behaviors, styles of dress, music, etc which are part of black culture. I would disagree and say that's deeply insulting to blacks, because there are plenty of black people who don't behave in any way which could possibly be construed as criminal or suspicious. Best friend I had when I was in the Navy was a young black man, about 21 when we met, who wore corduroy pants... tweed jackets, sweaters, glasses. Super well spoken, super amiable.

Nobody would follow him around a store in a million years, or pull him over in his Saab convertible. Is there some racist prick cop one in 10,000 who would pull him over just because he's black? Yea, and those cops are pieces of shit. The other 9,999 cops who are pulling over suspicious hoodlum looking people are doing their job. And again, it isn't their fault which demographic is supplying the bulk of those types.

It's a shame that there aren't more people like my Navy friend within the black community, but they are out there. He's far from the only person like that I've known. And you don't have to be as extreme down the path of Cosbyhood as he was to avoid undue suspicion. Usually just dressing like a normal, average guy does the trick.

This is getting to be too long of a post so I'll just say that the other stuff about conviction rates, harshness of penalty, and such I believe are all much more attributable to the actual "facts on the ground" as they say, than people like you are prepared to admit. Typically the drug crimes which are represented as being identical are not, in reality, identical. Typically the people getting the harsher sentences are people who had larger quantities, or a track record of previous offenses, or other indications that they were selling not just possessing, etc.

Conviction rates correspond well with the actual crimes being committed. This is also largely true with the meme of "blacks are given harsher sentences and given the death penalty more often, especially when their victim is white" again this is all tied in with the actual details of the specific crimes. Typically a black person killing another black person (not always!) is some situation where both of them had their hands dirty in some way, a gang killing, something like that. Whereas if the victim is white, it's more often an innocent person and a stranger, who wasn't wrapped up in any shadiness at the time of their death (again, not always!) - so typically the harsher sentences, including death penalty, are tied to real, actual, aggravating circumstances of the specific crimes. This is where detached ivory tower social justice liberal warriors fall on their face... they are just taking a GLANCE at statistics and not addressing the specifics.

The reason people tend to paint the black community as a whole with a broad brush (something I myself have unfortunately been guilty of at times) is that doing so is much more in line with the crime statistics than it would be to do the same to whites.

It's like Painlessrisen (black YouTuber who critiques black culture a lot) said the other day, (please take the time to watch that 3 minute video it's very relevant to this discussion) - "if there was a movie theater or school shooting, or a Tim McVeigh happening every day, then you might have a point. However, there are young black men blowing each other away every day in America."

You're promoting a false equivalency. It's not the same for someone to look at a population of 30 million which is accounting for an enormously outsized contribution to all manner of crimes and start to apply a broad brush, as it would be to look at a far, far larger population which is under-contributing to crimes, and do the same thing. It may still be unfair to do it, but it isn't anywhere near as crazy/racist as you'd like to imply it is. It's a reaction to and a reflection of reality.

 

[JulesMaximus]

In case anyone cares, a longboard is traditionally any surfboard 9' or longer in length.

And yes, 2" would make a difference.

 

[justoh]

It seems most people think about these issues at a depth of one layer, when in order to understand what's going on you need to think about them down at a depth of two or three layers.

 

[BoberFett]

You'll find most normal people don't have any more love for white thugs than they do for thugs of any color. Stupid thread is stupid.

 

[werepossum]

You'll find most normal people don't have any more love for white thugs than they do for thugs of any color. Stupid thread is stupid.

That's a true point; no one tried to defend them. And he admitted up front that the thread was stupid, but he has a valid point in that if these people were black this incident would likely spawn a thread or three about what's wrong with black culture and how we can fix it. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander; if black thugs define black culture then white thugs must similarly define white culture. Thugs and criminals are a minority within each race, and we don't have any defined percentage at which a minority group defines a population, we're just arguing that since whites have a lower percentage of thugs and criminals than do blacks they should define black culture but not white culture. One could just as easily argue the reverse, that the greater numbers of white thugs and criminals do more damage to society overall and thus more readily identify white culture, especially as a problem to be solved. As an example taken to the extreme supporting this argument, imagine there are five Ainu in America and three of them are hardened criminals. No one would be arguing about Ainu culture and what we need to do to fix it even though the majority of American Ainu were criminals.

It's a silly point, but it's worth making from time to time just so we don't forget it.

 

[BoberFett]

That's a true point; no one tried to defend them. And he admitted up front that the thread was stupid, but he has a valid point in that if these people were black this incident would likely spawn a thread or three about what's wrong with black culture and how we can fix it. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander; if black thugs define black culture then white thugs must similarly define white culture. Thugs and criminals are a minority within each race, and we don't have any defined percentage at which a minority group defines a population, we're just arguing that since whites have a lower percentage of thugs and criminals than do blacks they should define black culture but not white culture. One could just as easily argue the reverse, that the greater numbers of white thugs and criminals do more damage to society overall and thus more readily identify white culture, especially as a problem to be solved. As an example taken to the extreme supporting this argument, imagine there are five Ainu in America and three of them are hardened criminals. No one would be arguing about Ainu culture and what we need to do to fix it even though the majority of American Ainu were criminals.

It's a silly point, but it's worth making from time to time just so we don't forget it.

When the Latinos take over and whites are only 13% of the population (true whites, not those white Latinos...), and committed the same number of crimes they do now, thereby increasing the white-comitted-crime rate to be on par with blacks, then yes, white culture should be called into question.

 

[Geosurface]

if black thugs define black culture then white thugs must similarly define white culture.

You wouldn't agree that with things like the "stop snitching" meme and the much higher level of sympathy for outright criminals in the black community (due in no small part, I'd imagine, to the fact that it is much more likely that you have a felon in your family if you're black than if you're white, that you know someone who's in prison or has been, etc... as per the statistics) that all this makes a pretty good case for the argument that there is a much clearer line of demarcation between criminal whites and non-criminal whites than is the case within the black community?

 

[Jaskalas]

When the Latinos take over and whites are only 13% of the population (true whites, not those white Latinos...), and committed the same number of crimes they do now, thereby increasing the white-comitted-crime rate to be on par with blacks, then yes, white culture should be called into question.

That's why I want the border sealed.

 

[SheHateMe]

Yes I do and its the following attitude in P&N...

white people commit crimes
black people are criminals


Two vastly different statements. We all know who the players are.

white people scavenge for food during Hurricane Katrina
black people loot food during Hurricane Katrina

 

[HamburgerBoy]

white people scavenge for food during Hurricane Katrina
black people loot food during Hurricane Katrina

Yahoo News isn't ATPN. I think people here support shooting rioters in general.

 

[DeadFred]

Yahoo News isn't ATPN. I think people here support shooting rioters in general.

This person does! All thugs should be shot, regardless of ethnicity.

 

[nehalem256]

white people scavenge for food during Hurricane Katrina
black people loot food during Hurricane Katrina

Didn't you watch the Katrina news coverage?

Finding white people was like playing where's waldo

 

[Nintendesert]

That's why I want the border sealed.

Give us back the Southwest then. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth rock landed on us!

 

[Svnla]

Since the OP did not offer any solutions or deep analysis or further analysis of why they may chosen those actions, or reasons for the bad deeds or no real suggestions as to how rectify the problems, therefore, he MUST be a racist per certain posters such as jhtbbal (his words, not mine).

Paging jhtbbal, come in and hand out the racist card to the OP, don't be a pathetic hypocrite.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Damn surfer thugs. The worst thing is the paddle-by shootings. Thrusters and Uzis are a dangerous combo.

 

[Lanyap]

The violent white, Hispanic and Asian California surfer dude culture was on full display this past weekend

FTFY

 

[AznAnarchy99]

So I was there that day and actually left about 5 minutes right before all of that happened.

The video with the people flipping the porta-potties? I had just gotten out, was talking to a cop for a few minutes and then walked back to my car. Apparently all hell broke loose right after.

The US Open is a shit show from the beginning. There are a lot of 909ers, (douchey bro type people from the Inland Empire) that come out and basically get drunk and try to start fights. There were multiple brawls before the riots and the night before when I was bar hopping around the area.

Lots of teenage white kids who try to act tough and slutty 13 year old girls walking around as well.

This link shows most of it.

http://www.theinertia.com/surf/riots-shock-and-class-at-huntington-beachs-2013-us-open-of-surfing/

 

[Geosurface]

white people scavenge for food during Hurricane Katrina
black people loot food during Hurricane Katrina

http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/looters.asp

The difference in how these actions were described fits exactly with what I was talking about earlier, where people will glance at a situation in order to facilitate immediately running with it as a "racist" situation, when a closer look at the facts would give them pause.

The respective photographers had actually witnessed how these people obtained the items they had. The white couple had literally grabbed a couple of items which were floating in the water, outside (not in a store) while the black individual in the other image had gone into a store and filled an enormous trash bag with items. I'd say the quantity of items played into it too, but most of all it's this direct from the two photographers:

"says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. 'He saw the person go into a shop and take the goods, and that's why he wrote 'looting in the caption."

and from the second photographer:

"The people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows - They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow."

and again I want you to actually look at the two images and assess the quantity of items the people have.

This is exactly like the "black people are sentenced more harshly for the same minor drug possession crimes!" and "people whose victim was white claiming SYG are less likely to be successful than if the victim is black!" etc etc... when you actually look into the facts of the specific situation(s) - you find that the actions of the people were NOT equivalent.

 

[berzerker60]

Follow up, hilarious video: http://gawker.com/watch-cord-jefferson-discuss-the-white-culture-of-viole-975400723

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Was this the black, white, or Hispanic surfboard which started this?

Hint- the premise is stupid.

 

[TerryMathews]

Was this the black, white, or Hispanic surfboard which started this?

Hint- the premise is stupid.

He named himself after a Simpsons character. What did you expect, Chaucer?

 

[SaurusX]

When the Latinos take over and whites are only 13% of the population (true whites, not those white Latinos...),

The proper term is white HISPANIC. Just so we're clear.

 

[SaurusX]

Follow up, hilarious video: http://gawker.com/watch-cord-jefferson-discuss-the-white-culture-of-viole-975400723

I wonder how many years he waited to be able to use this schtick.