Three strikes and you're out laws?

[techs]

I think its time to expand the three strikes and your out law.
To corporations.
Why can a company violate the law, time and time again, yet each crime is considered individually? When a person has been convicted twice he faces severe penalties for a third offense.
Yet a company (completely chosen at random) like Archer Daniels Midland has plead guilty to crimes like price fixing, intentional pollution, bribery, and no one goes to jail and the company continues to exist?
Since we gave corporations a virtual legal status of "citizen" in the 1800's without any of the pesky responsibility of citizens, have corporations become, in effect, serial offenders?

 

[Genx87]

Sure they have. I dont know if price fixing a criminal offense in the sense people go to jail instead of fine. But corporate employee's can be tossed in jail for engaging in illegal activities such as tax evasion or fraud.

I guess it depends on the crime.

 

[Mardeth]

Because a company isnt a person. And because so many innocents will suffer. And because it would do more harm than good...

 

[retrospooty]

I agree.... Also 3 strikes should be changed for individuals too. Its not 3 strikes and your in jail for an extended amount of time. It's 3 strikes and your put to death. Not as a crime deterant, but as a means of waste disposal. Why keep all these assholes housed in prisong for 50 years until they die of old age. Pointless.

The corporate laws should match. The individuals involved and responsible, if proven guilty, should be shot in the head.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's 3 strikes and your put to death. Not as a crime deterant, but as a means of waste disposal. Why keep all these assholes housed in prisong for 50 years until they die of old age. Pointless.

In many cases the death penalty is basically natural life in prison as they appeal for years. A relative of mine represented a guy who was convicted of murdering his family with a sledgehammer and was sentenced to death (maybe he is not the best lawyer, maybe there is only so much you can do when there is overwhelming evidence), 20+ years later he is still alive and is appealing.

Because a company isnt a person. And because so many innocents will suffer. And because it would do more harm than good...

I agree, but those responsible in the company should have those crimes count towards their three strikes.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

In many cases the death penalty is basically natural life in prison as they appeal for years. A relative of mine represented a guy who was convicted of murdering his family with a sledgehammer and was sentenced to death (maybe he is not the best lawyer, maybe there is only so much you can do when there is overwhelming evidence), 20+ years later he is still alive and is appealing.

That would be part of the benefit of 3 strikes and your dead - you aren't around to waste taxpayer money on appeals. Penalties like that would also easily separate the small timers from carreer criminals. A guy that's been throught he system 2x is very likely to never commit another crime again. A career criminal or nutjob would go the distance.

 

[MovingTarget]

If corporations are to be considered persons under the law, then these laws should match. So, I think it is prudent to either make the laws equivalent in this area or strip the personhood status of corporations.

 

[Lemon law]

I somewhat have my own take, if people with in corporations commit crimes, they should go to jail just like any normal individual.
This worse case scenario of fining them with monetary damages only crapola is a big mistake. Don't wait for three strikes, put the rats in jail on strike one, just like any other bank robber. And when the CEO ends up in the slammer, the CEO will think long and hard about allowing that kind of stuff to go on.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I think a "three strikes" law for corporations is a great idea. The penalty would be to lose their status as a corporation and be considered a company.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
I think a "three strikes" law for corporations is a great idea. The penalty would be to lose their status as a corporation and be considered a company.

Unfortunately, even a dedicated "corporation hater" such as myself sees that corporations are owned by a multitude of people...called stockholders.

Converting a corporation into a company would be difficult at best because of the wide diversity in owners.

HOWEVER, ALL corporate officials should be held responsible for the malfeasance of one. Let ALL of the bastards go to jail for the corporate crimes.

 

[Craig234]

A much simpler solution is to make corporate officers personally responsible for criminal acts by their corporations. While one of the basic functions of a corporation is to shield people from just that liability - going back to the days that the English crown who owned the East India company would let its ships go commit crimes without punishment - that could be changed.

It's certainly understandable why people would prefer the protections a corporation provides.

It's not very understandable why society allows corporations who have effectively no obligation to society, but only to profit, to be so unconstrained.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
That would be part of the benefit of 3 strikes and your dead - you aren't around to waste taxpayer money on appeals.

Ahh, I take it you are advocating a speedy execution upon the conviction of the third strike with no appeals?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
I think a "three strikes" law for corporations is a great idea. The penalty would be to lose their status as a corporation and be considered a company.

Unfortunately, even a dedicated "corporation hater" such as myself sees that corporations are owned by a multitude of people...called stockholders.

Converting a corporation into a company would be difficult at best because of the wide diversity in owners.

HOWEVER, ALL corporate officials should be held responsible for the malfeasance of one. Let ALL of the bastards go to jail for the corporate crimes.

Hell, just toss out "limited liability" and hold the stockholders responsible for the Corporation's

misdeeds. After all the CEO:evil: is just working in the stockholder's benefit. Or that's what they:laugh: claim.

 

[StageLeft]

A) Death penalty is bullsh*t and should be 100% off the books 100% of the time in a progressive, modern society.
B) Not sure the point in canning an entire company for the dealings of potentially just a few people.
c) We all know that white collar crimes get a slap on the wrist. If I break into your car and steal your $200 stereo I go to prison for six months but if I screw over a few hundred people's retirements and blow it on bullsh*t I get a decade and then come out and party with what I socked away. It's silly. There should be far more criminal suits. The fact that we've not seen many or any so far despite the US in a total cluster right now is indicative of what a joke the justice system is for white collar crimes.

 

[JSt0rm]

3 strikes laws are for black crack heads - people who really have a impact on the state of our economy and society not some multinational conglomerate who have no bearing on our lives.

 

[OCGuy]

Screw those corporations! Why dont they start doing something useful, like employing people, instead of running themselves!

 

[Moonbeam]

I think that people are angry about what is happening in our society and that what is happening in our society is partially due to the fact that our anger takes irrational forms like demonstrated in this thread.

I think that the way a society of law is supposed to work is that people who do wrong face real and appropriate justice with real and appropriate certainty in reasonable and appropriate swiftness with all due Constitutional protections in place. Maybe that would be where our anger should be directed, at the farce that is ourselves.

 

[Phokus]

No corporations should be allowed to get away with murder - GOP Philosophy

 

[Siddhartha]

Can anyone give real examples of when three and out should have been applied?

If you are looking for someone to pay for the crime look no further than the corporation's CEO, CFO, etc. There would be definite changes in corporate cultures once the word got out that the CEO could go to jail.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Craig234
A much simpler solution is to make corporate officers personally responsible for criminal acts by their corporations. While one of the basic functions of a corporation is to shield people from just that liability - going back to the days that the English crown who owned the East India company would let its ships go commit crimes without punishment - that could be changed.

It's certainly understandable why people would prefer the protections a corporation provides.

It's not very understandable why society allows corporations who have effectively no obligation to society, but only to profit, to be so unconstrained.

because they desire to do the same ...unfortunately

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Screw those corporations! Why dont they start doing something useful, like employing people, instead of running themselves!

The grownups are talking, go away. The topic is corporations *who commit serious crimes*. Your implied lie that the target is all corporations is asinine.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think that people are angry about what is happening in our society and that what is happening in our society is partially due to the fact that our anger takes irrational forms like demonstrated in this thread.

I think that the way a society of law is supposed to work is that people who do wrong face real and appropriate justice with real and appropriate certainty in reasonable and appropriate swiftness with all due Constitutional protections in place. Maybe that would be where our anger should be directed, at the farce that is ourselves.

I have plenty of room for that, too

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
I think a "three strikes" law for corporations is a great idea. The penalty would be to lose their status as a corporation and be considered a company.

Unfortunately, even a dedicated "corporation hater" such as myself sees that corporations are owned by a multitude of people...called stockholders.

Converting a corporation into a company would be difficult at best because of the wide diversity in owners.

HOWEVER, ALL corporate officials should be held responsible for the malfeasance of one. Let ALL of the bastards go to jail for the corporate crimes.

Yep this is correct . Problem is corp were set up to protect the Guility. In war time . A us Corp . Selling anything to enemy is treason. But the way its setup . now they can't be convicted Pure sinnful neglect of LAW.

In your world you guys need something bad to happen between USA/ China so as to break off trade with them . USA needs take head out of ass and become industrialized . Befor this world Economy . USA companies did just fine at selling way less product . The new world economy doesn't work allows for to much criminal activity. I will never be a world citizen . Ever. I can't trust Americans . I won't ever trust europeans . People who have been threaded on by anglos can't betrusted as there filled with hate.

Take a Mexican . Indian. They know there history same as Black america knows its History. We know what tthe Black man has to say about it also . They bitter.

Now take S. american indians . They know over 100,000,000 were put to death by spains. Anglos . They don't talk about . They keeping it inside. They hate us . White /Black.

The American North indian is more of a puzzle than our southern FRIENDS . Over 100,000,000 N. American indians were slaughtered by US. Yet these peoples spirit tho threaded on really hasn't been broken . Pretty freaken Impressive . I really like N.American Indians Alot. If I could choose away of life . I would choose their way befor white man arrived. Its funny . That mormen bible tells the story of these 2 peoples.

If ya reason it out somehow Smith got it right. The north American indians were run away slaves of the evil south american indian . Just for history aspects . Read it its rather good . Not sure how 12 year old came up this.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think that people are angry about what is happening in our society and that what is happening in our society is partially due to the fact that our anger takes irrational forms like demonstrated in this thread.

I think that the way a society of law is supposed to work is that people who do wrong face real and appropriate justice with real and appropriate certainty in reasonable and appropriate swiftness with all due Constitutional protections in place. Maybe that would be where our anger should be directed, at the farce that is ourselves.

I fail to see how directing my anger inward is going to change anything?

 

[ericlp]

If this was law bush would have never made it!

The system is corrupt as hell already, don't hate the players....Hate the game.