Three reasons why the House GOP isn’t going to win the payroll tax-cut fight

[Ausm]

Does anyone have the slightest doubt in their minds that the Senate would have approved the House version of the tax cut proposal if Reid would have allowed an up-and-down vote on it?

That's really all you need to know about where this is coming from. /s

Ok then why wasn't the Senate Bill voted on in the HOR and was flat out rejected?

 

[Juddog]

This shows the GOP really only care about their rich buddies and could care less about the majority of hardworking americans.

 

[fskimospy]

Does anyone have the slightest doubt in their minds that the Senate would have approved the House version of the tax cut proposal if Reid would have allowed an up-and-down vote on it?

That's really all you need to know about where this is coming from. /s

Uhmmmm, yes? Do you even have the slightest idea what you're talking about?

The House's version involved cuts to the health care bill, all sorts of ultra right wing riders, cut millions off of unemployment insurance, etc. It never had the slightest chance of passing in the Senate.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Uhmmmm, yes? Do you even have the slightest idea what you're talking about?

The House's version involved cuts to the health care bill, all sorts of ultra right wing riders, cut millions off of unemployment insurance, etc. It never had the slightest chance of passing in the Senate.

I understand that several Democrats would have voted for it and it had a good chance of passing. Tell me something...why did Reid block an up-and-down vote on the House bill if it had no chance of passing?

 

[Darwin333]

Yes we did but the Republicans said it would hurt the Job creators.

So I assume you call this one a tax increase purely for political points?

 

[fskimospy]

I understand that several Democrats would have voted for it and it had a good chance of passing. Tell me something...why did Reid block an up-and-down vote on the House bill if it had no chance of passing?

Ahhh, so now you have an 'understanding that several Democrats would have voted for it and it had a good chance of passing'. So already you are retreating from asking if anyone had the slightest doubt. In order to get it to pass even if nobody filibustered it (fat chance, and Reid couldn't stop them if he wanted to), you need to identify 4 Democratic senators who would have voted for it. Who are they? Give specific names.

Reid blocked the vote because he didn't want to have his people on the record voting against this popular tax cut. It's the same reason Boehner refused to have it come up for a vote in the House. The difference is that the Republicans in the House passed an ultra partisan bill that got almost zero Democratic votes, and the Senate passed a bipartisan bill that received pretty overwhelming support. But yeah, they are totally the same thing.

 

[werepossum]

On the super wealthy who have increased their share of wealth by an order of magnitude over the last few decades and can easily afford to pay slightly higher taxes?

Or in the case of the 2 month extension, on people with Fannie Mae loans who are by definition being subsidized by the rest of us taxpayers anyway...

By design Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are supposed to be largely self-sustaining, with only the low income loans subsidized.

 

[werepossum]

Ahhh, so now you have an 'understanding that several Democrats would have voted for it and it had a good chance of passing'. So already you are retreating from asking if anyone had the slightest doubt. In order to get it to pass even if nobody filibustered it (fat chance, and Reid couldn't stop them if he wanted to), you need to identify 4 Democratic senators who would have voted for it. Who are they? Give specific names.

Reid blocked the vote because he didn't want to have his people on the record voting against this popular tax cut. It's the same reason Boehner refused to have it come up for a vote in the House. The difference is that the Republicans in the House passed an ultra partisan bill that got almost zero Democratic votes, and the Senate passed a bipartisan bill that received pretty overwhelming support. But yeah, they are totally the same thing.

And the other difference is that the Democrat Senate passed what Obama said he would not accept (2 month extension) and the Republican House passed what Obama said he wanted (one year extension.)

 

[Lemon law]

INMO, weeping John Boner has outsmarted himself in what amounts to a high stakes game of musical Chairs.

The Senate did its job in authorizing the payroll tax extension, and has taken themselves and their chair back home for the holidays. After the squeaker of the house himself told the Senate the house would follow suit.

Leaving John Boner and his band of merry republirats alone in the room, the music has stopped, and Wheeping John suddenly realizes there no more chairs to sit on.

So Mr. Boner sits in isolation, no holiday dinner for the house republicans, they will be too busy rehearsing their new role as the Grinch's who stole X-mas. And that will be their new GOP type cast role as American workers of all parties open their first 2012 paycheck, and discoverer its gotten lighter. And the timing could not be better, as the GOP primaries are set to start. As every house republican must face the voters come next November.

Or Boner can admit he blundered, and eat a Christmas diner of crow.

Meanwhile BONER stands in a big chair less room, and bleats vainglorious for the Senate to come back. Meanwhile the big clock in the chair less room goes tick tick tick. As Obama sits in the White House and refuses to call the Senate back.

But no force on Heaven or Earth will lift Boehner off the horns of a dilemma he has placed himself, and IMHO, it could have not happened to a nicer guy.

 

[Matt1970]

So let me get this straight...Republicans are against raising taxes 1.9% on incomes of 1 million or more after deductions but they have no problem fucking over 160,000,000 million Americans with a tax hike?

Gotcha....



http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ree-reasons-the-house-gop-wont-win-this-fight

This is why congress has a 11% approval rating. Or is it 9% now?

 

[CPA]

Aren't the House Republicans looking for a *one year* extension of the payroll tax cut instead of the *two months* the House Democrats and Senate want? Why would this be a problem? Oh, yeah - it would push the renewal out past the next elections...

Don't throw the facts at them, they'll just be ignored.

But, regardless, yes, as a Republican, I'm all for tax cuts, but this one is just plain stupid. First, it's a draw against supposed retirement security, a program that was already headed for trouble, and second, the current proposal by the Senate was nothing but a bandaid.

Really Ausm? you really agreed that two extra months was a prudent move? Or is your argument really nothing more than an attempt to bash republicans? I think we know the answer.

 

[CPA]

This shows the GOP really only care about their rich buddies and could care less about the majority of hardworking americans.

wait, what? How does this have anything to do with the rich? Oh, wait, since is SS tax, the rich will lose the benefit of the cut as well. I would think you dems would be all for that.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Ok then why wasn't the Senate Bill voted on in the HOR and was flat out rejected?

Why did the Senate not even consider the House bill?
Reid would not let it come up for a vote!

 

[mchammer187]

Didn't your side argue extensively that allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire was not a tax increase since the tax cut was temporary?

It is a tax increase. I don't think that was ever really in dispute but I could be wrong. The Democrats just argued that it should end because it contributed to the deficit and certainly did not "pay for themselves."

Obama only made a pledge that he would not raise taxes on the middle class (250K) during a recession and he wanted to let the Bush tax cuts expire on the "rich."

 

[EagleKeeper]

INMO, weeping John Boner has outsmarted himself in what amounts to a high stakes game of musical Chairs.

The Senate did its job in authorizing the payroll tax extension, and has taken themselves and their chair back home for the holidays. After the squeaker of the house himself told the Senate the house would follow suit.

Leaving John Boner and his band of merry republirats alone in the room, the music has stopped, and Wheeping John suddenly realizes there no more chairs to sit on.

So Mr. Boner sits in isolation, no holiday dinner for the house republicans, they will be too busy rehearsing their new role as the Grinch's who stole X-mas. And that will be their new GOP type cast role as American workers of all parties open their first 2012 paycheck, and discoverer its gotten lighter. And the timing could not be better, as the GOP primaries are set to start. As every house republican must face the voters come next November.

Or Boner can admit he blundered, and eat a Christmas diner of crow.

Meanwhile BONER stands in a big chair less room, and bleats vainglorious for the Senate to come back. Meanwhile the big clock in the chair less room goes tick tick tick. As Obama sits in the White House and refuses to call the Senate back.

But no force on Heaven or Earth will lift Boehner off the horns of a dilemma he has placed himself, and IMHO, it could have not happened to a nicer guy.

So it is a game to shaft people and kick the can down the road again rather then designing up a proper bill.

The stated purpose was to not keep implementing stopgap measures and handle issue properly for the complete picture.

The Senate did not want that hot potato responsibility so came up with a quick fix again. Playing the usual smoke/mirrors game for government spending.

No bill is better than a bad bill. People made it by without the $40/wk (max) over a two month period previously; they can do it again. Those that hit the $40 make about twice the average worker anyhow.

 

[Lemon law]

This is why congress has a 11% approval rating. Or is it 9% now?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am puzzled why Matt1970 lumps congress into one collective entity when its mainly composed of Dimorats and Republirats.

As the telling statistic will be the congressional approval ratings by both political parties as a separate rating.

 

[Fern]

Does anyone have the slightest doubt in their minds that the House Republicans would have passed this tax cut if a Republican president had asked for it?

That's really all you need to know about where this is coming from.

I'm hearing otherwise.

It's not about the President, it's about the relationship between the House and the Senate.

According to A.B. Stoddard, a Washington insider who leans towards the Left, we're looking at a fight between the House and the Senate, not based on politics but principal. The House is fed up and believes the Senate is making Congress as a whole look bad. E.g., the Senate hasn't passed a budget (a Constitutional obligation IIRC) in nearly 3 yrs and constantly opts for short-term measures consistently kicking the can down the road.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

Don't throw the facts at them, they'll just be ignored.

But, regardless, yes, as a Republican, I'm all for tax cuts, but this one is just plain stupid. First, it's a draw against supposed retirement security, a program that was already headed for trouble, and second, the current proposal by the Senate was nothing but a bandaid.

Really Ausm? you really agreed that two extra months was a prudent move? Or is your argument really nothing more than an attempt to bash republicans? I think we know the answer.

I don't fundamentally disagree, but as a political issue it's a winner. People want THEIR hand-out now, regardless of later cost. And if we must have individual tax cuts as a stimulus, there's an argument to be made that tax cuts to all working Americans beats tax cuts to those working Americans who earn enough to pay net federal income taxes because those on the low end who pay no income taxes will tend to immediately spend the extra money whereas those on the upper end who pay the most in income taxes will tend to save at least part of any cut. You can certainly argue that money spent on consumer goods will largely pass out of our economy and into China's*, or that it's immensely stupid to allow people to consume money set aside for their retirement (the whole point of Social Security is to force people to save for retirement), but on the political side the payroll tax cut is a winner.

*I realize there can be no definitive answer to this, as no mechanism exists that can track what percentage of any tax cut is spent on domestic goods and services, let alone predict it. A $1,000 payroll tax cut that for instance helped someone buy a newer American-made automobile that uses less fuel would have lasting stimulus effect, whereas a $10,000 income tax cut that helped someone purchase an expensive imported stereo or fund a vacation to Europe would have very little. All we can really do is speak in generalities and speculate.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Yes I agree. Extending it in small chunks is bad for business, just less bad than not extending it at all.

Honestly, my main concern is that I want it extended because it saves me a lot of money. I don't really care that much about all this posturing.

It doesn't save you money anymore than going to the bank and taking out a loan increases your income.

 

[etrigan420]

People want THEIR hand-out now, regardless of later cost.

Wait, now it's a "hand out"?

Are we still talking about the payroll tax?

 

[Fern]

And the other difference is that the Democrat Senate passed what Obama said he would not accept (2 month extension) and the Republican House passed what Obama said he wanted (one year extension.)

Exactly.

I follow politics far more than the average person and this mess has me confused.

I really don't see one side or the other coming out as a clear loser or gainer in this debacle. I think it's just going to be seen as an another example of a dysfunctional Congress/government.

Really? A 2 month extension when they've known for a year that this thing was set to expire now? I think people are fed up with this 'last minute' bull sh!t we've been seeing for a while now.

The Senate needs a 2 month extension because they need to go on Christmas vacation for a couple of months? Really? Who the h3ll else gets that kind of extended vacation? You think people agree with dithering around, then at the last minute pulling some kind of stop-gap measure that just kicks the can the road so they can go on a long vacation? I don't.

And we're paying for it by raising the cost of purchasing homes? Really? Given the current housing market, which btw is reported today to have been significantly worse than reported for the past 3 yrs, do we really need to make housing more expensive, even incrementally?

Notwithstanding the above, I don't think people will see ANY sense to funding a payroll tax cut on the back of Fannie/Freddie. WTH does the one have to do with the other?

The whole thing is a fustercluck of absurdity.

Fern

 

[Anarchist420]

Yup. Any attempt to not extend it will be called a tax hike and not "allowing a temporary tax break to expire" and will be politically unfeasible.

We damn sure can't afford to make it permanent but imo it will be for quite a while.

We actually can afford to make it permanent and it's not that hard either. It's called means testing.

So let me get this straight...Republicans are against raising taxes 1.9% on incomes of 1 million or more after deductions but they have no problem fucking over 160,000,000 million Americans with a tax hike?

Gotcha....



http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ree-reasons-the-house-gop-wont-win-this-fight

And Obama and the Democrats are against reducing spending on the rich. All medicare and SS were was a handout to the rich and it pisses me off. LBJ's "war on poverty" my ass. He should've called it "War of Poverty".

The Republicans and the Democrats are both to blame here since they can't reduce the maximum paycheck per person per month. Those assholes can't even cut the rich off of Medicare. They need to stop giving already wealthy households an extra $42k/year.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

And the other difference is that the Democrat Senate passed what Obama said he would not accept (2 month extension) and the Republican House passed what Obama said he wanted (one year extension.)

Yeah right Obama made it very clear a month ago he would veto the extension if they stuck the Keystone pipeline provision with it, and not only did the house bill do that it also cut some of the key Healhcare provision. It was a dead duck before it even started Boehner knew it.

And Obama only agreed to accept the 2mo extension when it became apparent that that was the best that the rebub's would agree to, before Boehner renigged on his commitment.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Ahhh, so now you have an 'understanding that several Democrats would have voted for it and it had a good chance of passing'. So already you are retreating from asking if anyone had the slightest doubt. In order to get it to pass even if nobody filibustered it (fat chance, and Reid couldn't stop them if he wanted to), you need to identify 4 Democratic senators who would have voted for it. Who are they? Give specific names.

Baucus, Tester, Landrieu, Pryor, Begich were all for the House bill Keystone decision deadline and McCaskill was definitely leaning that way as well. Too bad we never got a chance to see how they would have actually voted.

Reid blocked the vote because he didn't want to have his people on the record voting against this popular tax cut.

So...is this "really all you need to know about where this is coming from"?

 

[Ausm]

I'm hearing otherwise.

It's not about the President, it's about the relationship between the House and the Senate.

According to A.B. Stoddard, a Washington insider who leans towards the Left, we're looking at a fight between the House and the Senate, not based on politics but principal. The House is fed up and believes the Senate is making Congress as a whole look bad. E.g., the Senate hasn't passed a budget (a Constitutional obligation IIRC) in nearly 3 yrs and constantly opts for short-term measures consistently kicking the can down the road.

Fern

LMAO WOW never heard that type of spin before.