Thread inappropriately locked.

[Wreckage]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2167989&enterthread=y

I had a thread locked after a moderator posted in it repeatedly "as a member". Then when he did not like my opinion he chose to close it.

I?m calling you out on it with facts and logic, but as a regular poster rather than a moderator.

I even changed the title and I tried to reason with him to take it to a PM. Both my thread titles were accurate and as was fully explained in the posts. Not only were his posts inappropriate for a member, but I think even more so for a mod. To then go and lock the thread after such statements is poor taste at best.

I posted several links to back up my assertions even though it was clear that the argument he was making was mainly over semantics.

It's generally looked down upon for a moderator on any forum to repeatedly post in a thread and then moderate that thread to enforce his opinion over others.

His final statement was even misleading...

Wreckage, I?m done playing this game with you. Obviously repeatedly debunking your arguments is not enough so more action needs to be taken in the form of locking the thread.

In the future when you post threads don?t use such inflammatory titles designed to bait responses, and likewise try to ensure your content adequately describes the situation at hand with a reasonable degree.

?Now CrossfireX won't even run OpenGL games? is as misleading as your original thread title ?ATI not supporting OpenGL?.

Thanks for your assistance in the matter.

Video Mod BFG10K.

"Repeated debunking" I don't think one persons opinion over another is debunking. Nor do I consider his argument over semantics "debunking". That's a rather insulting statement to leave off with as you lock a thread.

My title was only inflammatory to people who are engaged in some sort of product war. Even so I changed it to try and appease him. Also note he says I changed it to ?Now CrossfireX won't even run OpenGL games? which is also false.

It's worth noting that both Anandtech and the Tech Report back up my statements, so I suppose he was somehow able to debunk those sites.

It's really not even the locking of the thread that bothers me as he kept dragging it offtopic anyways by trying to bring the other video card company into it and repeatedly making the same false accusations. What bothers me is that he was the one who locked it after posting in it so many times and then leaving such a ridiculous final message knowing that I can not respond to it.

First I know this site needs to back it's mods, so I don't expect much, second I know the same "fans" will come in to defend, and third it's a shame it's come to this. :thumbsdown:

Please use appropriate channels to report concerns over nonsenior moderators in the future, as stated in forum policy.

In cases where members feel personal bias has been an issue, please contact AnandTech Moderator by PM or email moderator@anandtech.com. Complaints in this area will be evaluated by our team of Senior Moderators.

Baiting moderators will not be tolerated nor will Mod Call Outs. Any action that reasonably can be considered baiting a moderator, or multiple consecutive actions that heavily push the boundaries of any of these guidelines will result in an instant short term vacation. Repeated violation of this rule may result in a permaban.

-Schadenfroh (Senior AT Mod)

 

[BFG10K]

Like I explained before, the thread was locked because the title was nothing more than baiting designed to illicit a response as it was grossly inaccurate.

Also your content was a similar style and after you were called out multiple times you refused to respond to those points and instead adopted the troll tactic ?take it to PM?.

Sorry, but that doesn?t fly.

I'm still waiting for quotes of these personal attacks you claimed I made. Why aren't you posting them up Wreckage?

You claimed I personally attacked you so please post evidence or retract your false claims.

Please post evidence or retract your claims. Thanks.

You also claimed you never stated CrossfireX can?t run OpenGL games but then I provided a direct quote from you saying you did, but again you failed to respond

So in otherwords I provided evidence of lying in your arguments but you again refused to respond, yet another troll tactic.

What is your response to this lying Wreckage? Are you going to tell me to take it to PMs?

Furthermore Keys (who was video mod at the time) backed my views and you even started scuffling with him.

So in short you were given plenty of opportunities to turn the thread around by both moderators but you didn?t, so it was locked.

 

[apoppin]

Wreckage you are calling out a mod

No matter how you disguise it you have baited him and Keysplayr2003 all through that thread

i am not so sure BFG10 as a new mod is certain of all the rules ... at ANY rate, ANOTHER mod should come in, LOCK your flamebait tread and give you a nice long vacation so Video forum can get on with it's usual business without your disruption. It's pretty clear that your idea of "fun" and attempts to make Video "less boring" are in violation of ATF ToS.

 

[DerekWilson]

that thread was a clusterfuck.

... here's my thoughts.

Wreckage --

your original topic title was a bit over the top. you did fight back in the thread yourself, so you can't simply claim that you were innocent in all of this.

at the same time, you are right about it mostly being a semantic battle. you repeatedly try to make it clear that you were talking about the fact that 3 and 4 GPU solutions under AMD hardware do nothing with OpenGL games. anyone who though you were saying anything else only needs to read your posts to understand.

much of it comes down to something most reviewers did on launch day -- we differentiated between crossfirex as explicit technology to enable 3 and 4 GPUs. this is how it was presented to us last year when the concept was introduced to us along side 3870 ...

if AMD has decided to now say that 2000 series and up support crossfirex instead of crossfire and that crossfirex allows for two or more gpus than they can do that. BFG is technically correct in his assesment of what AMD states are the facts. But even so, people would and should have understood what you meant if they a) read your posts or b) read reviews on the subject.

i respect BFG and keys effort to protect the factual basis of information. a good dialog about what really is going in is healthy --

but it could have been summed up with the what i just said above. there was no need for all the fighting.

...

... this is where it gets funky.

locking the thread was the right call as it had become derailed.

But, honestly, BFG, you played a huge part in derailing the thread. You acted appropriately as a moderator by not moderating in the thread you were posting in, but not as a member in this case. which i think is Wreckages major complaint. I would also like to point out that BFG PM'd me asking about locking threads that you post in -- this was a good move on his part and i appreciate it. he did the right thing here even before i got back to him by getting Schadenfroh to come by check in on it.

once again, the final lock was NOT done by BFG ... it was performed by Schadenfroh -- look at the OP.

But the fact remains that you both kept saying the same things back and forth to eachother while neither of you sat down and tried to understand the intent or meaning of the other (in any effective way). Wreckage, you could have seen that BFG was factually right even if all the review sites in the world said it one way. AMD gets to define their own terms. It would have been a simple matter then to say that 3 or 4 card crossfirex is not supported under opengl (and i do think that the term supported can be used to mean something more like work as expected rather than function period -- but that's getting back to semantics). BFG, you could have seen that his issue was with 3 and 4 card scaling in OpenGL and you could have been a lot more helpful in helping him to express his concern rather than continuously posting about what he got wrong and why it was wrong.

And wreckage -- this is VERY important for you to understand. it isn't only that people with a preference or agenda would have a problem with the title of your post. the issue is that we all have a responsibility to post in a way that doesn't not unnecessarily stir the pot. Video can get contentious. Even if what you said was defensible in some way, you need to account for the fact that people have strong opinions and in order to get across to them any useful info, you need to be as accurate and factual as possible.

Personally, I don't think that "ATI not supporting OpenGL with CrossfireX" (the new title) is misleading specifically because I believe people will understand what he means even if it doens't follow AMD definition perfectly (and especially since it reflects the perception most if not all hardware reviewers had on launch day). As was pointed out, "ATI not scaling OGL with CFX beyond 2 cards" would have been more accurate.

The first title was baiting though. i get the complaints, and i get why BFG started railing against it. Correcting misinformation (and arguing proper semantics) is something BFG is great at. But, if you are concerned about an issue like trolling or baiting, BFG, you can avoid most of the issues we saw here by treating the issue like a mod rather than a member -- if you had PM'd wreckage and let him know that his title appeared to be a troll and that he should change it to something more reflective of the topic then he could have either done so or you could have changed it for him and given him a warning about stirring up unnecessary trouble in a forum that can easily fall into flame wars.

PMing him about a potential baiting / trolling issue also helps avoid another problem. we do not moderate on people's understanding of things. wreckage has a right to get things wrong all day long and post about his incorrect opinions and beliefs till the cows come home. we will not censor or moderate out this type of behavior. the problem is when people either intentionally or unintentionally bait people with their wording or phrasing (whether they are right or wrong) and get flame wars started. avoiding this is important especially in video and P&N ... out right attacking is easy to identify and respond to, but it is just as important to try and guide people to think of how others will recieve the information to be imparted. the factual basis of that information is largely irrelevant unless you can prove someone was acting maliciously to knowingly spread false information (this is against our guideliens / TOS).

...

so ...

I do very much hope I've sored this for everyone -- and I do hope you will appreciate that I did it publicly rather than in the mod forum. I was able to do this because BFG's actions as a moderator were not at all questionable -- he did not moderate/lock the thread by himself but with the support of other mods. I also hope it will help to show members and the new mods how to approach similar situations in the future.

cliffs:

thread is derailed and locked appropriately by a mod not participating in the thread
wreckage and bfg both contributed to the derailment
people need to be responsible in how they say things in contentious forums

no further action will be taken against anyone here, and i hope everyone will benefit from this ...