Thougths on volvo V70 wagon

[kornphlake]

I'm considering some different vehicles, beyond what I've typically considered and one that has me interested is a 2000-2002 model Volvo V70 or V70 XC. I don't really care about AWD, would actually prefer not to have it, power and handling are not a big concern either, what I'm most interested in is reliability and cost of ownership. I'm concerned about the amount of electronics in these vehicles, a lot of the problems I've seen mentioned are related to abuse of the ECU for things like power windows, door locks, windshield wipers, etc.

What are the forum's thoughts on the quality and reliability of Volvo wagons? Experiences with Volvo seem to be pretty polarized, either you love them and have no problems or you have a lot of problems and hate them. I'm finding a lot of them for sale in my area with 100k-130k miles, I wonder if that's the point where repairs start getting expensive. Volvo fanbois say 250k miles is no problem for the drivetrain, but the number of vehicles for sale and the relatively low asking price makes me question the actual value of one of these vehicles.

I'm not looking for suggestions on other vehicles per se, just looking for opinions or experiences with the volvo wagons.
Thanks

 

[PhoKingGuy]

I think brblx was a former volvo master tech, he would be able to answer your question

 

[Zenmervolt]

There were issue with the AWD systems in the early XC cars, so I would definitely avoid the AWD models. Also, the '99-'02 cars had problems with their electronic throttle modules failing. While this doesn't cause the Toyota Syndrome (the Volvo throttles have all failed into "limp mode"), it's a hassle and relatively expensive.

Otherwise, it all depends on the car and how it has been treated. The PCV system in the straight 5 Turbo engines is known to get sludgy, but as long as you have the PCV service performed at the intervals listed in the owner's manual and keep up with oil changes it won't become an issue. Just be sure to have the flush performed every 60,000 miles as is recommended.

Timing belts are due at 110,000 miles IIRC and if they break the pistons will hit the valves, so it's important to either have it done or to make sure the car has already had it done.

The basic engine and transmission combination is solid. The I5 is a mature design and quite sturdy. It was basically carried over from the 850 series and other than the PCV system issue mentioned previously is a bulletproof design. The transmission is an AisinWarner unit that has a strong reputation (though the '99 cars had some issues as they used a new 5-speed design, later cars had the issues corrected).

I have not experienced issues with electrical systems myself; windows, door locks, and wipers all function perfectly and the Pro-Logic stereo is flawless. That said, I almost never have issues with my cars, computers, or other machines, so the owner very likely plays a part here.

The bottom line is that, as with just about anything else, the vast majority of issues can be traced back to current or previous owners being rough with their cars. I'm closing in on 140,000 miles with my '98 S70 T5 and, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with it. It's a solid car that drives well and gets up and goes quite nicely. I truly believe that most of the issues people have with Volvos are because they treat the cars as though they are indestructible and neglect basic maintenance and the like.

ZV

 

[kornphlake]

The bottom line is that, as with just about anything else, the vast majority of issues can be traced back to current or previous owners being rough with their cars. I'm closing in on 140,000 miles with my '98 S70 T5 and, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with it. It's a solid car that drives well and gets up and goes quite nicely. I truly believe that most of the issues people have with Volvos are because they treat the cars as though they are indestructible and neglect basic maintenance and the like.

ZV

That pretty much sums it up, the question is does the car on a dealer's lot have a history of abuse and neglect or was it properly maintained? The low asking prices suggests most of the vehicles available haven't been maintained, why would anybody want to sell a vehicle with poor resale value unless it had some issues?

I guess it's one more vehicle to go test drive and really tune into the warm fuzzy feelings I get from the car while ignoring whatever the salesman may say.

 

[kevinf2090]

i love volvos. my dad has a 95 850 that has more then 200k miles on it and still going

 

[brblx]

I think brblx was a former volvo master tech, he would be able to answer your question

i've got my ASE master cert, but was only a mid-level volvo tech.

ZV hit a lot of the important points.

in general, i'd be wary of the '04 and older P2 (s60/v70/s80) cars. the '05 and up models seemed to be a little more solid, but they still have some common problems.

the 5cyl engines are damn sturdy, as are the AW transmissions (i'll assume you're looking at an auto). the PCV system is a definite weak point. if the oil has not been changed every 3-4k for the life of the car, it will probably need the oil trap box done at some point. even with frequent intervals, it's probably a 100-150k item. with 7.5k intervals, i've seen them needed as soon as 50k or so. the box plus hoses isn't too expensive (maybe 100-200 bucks, i can't really remember), but labor can run up to 3-4 hours. an indy shop might do it for less, it's not a hard job. worst case scenario is one of the internal passages in the block gets plugged and oil pan removal is needed- this is usually from total neglect, though.

one big reason to recommend against the early P2's is the electronic throttle. anything with a big rectangular throttle body with 'magneti morelli' stamped on the side, i would generally avoid. there are a few flukes that last forever, but most of them develop issues. they cost about 800-1000 bucks from the dealer...plus software and labor. there is an extended warranty on them for 10 years or 150k, but getting volvo to honor it is like pulling teeth. the later throttles (we referred to them as 'slave throttles,' as they are controlled by the ECM) are much better. they still need cleaning a bit more frequently than most cars, though.

engine accessories are usually solid. there are a lot of PS pump failures, but that's typically because the suction hose leading from the reservoir to the pump starts leaking and the system runs out of fluid. cheap fix if you catch it in time.

the front end on these cars is not a terribly solid design. spring seats and lower control arm bushings should probably be done around 100k. inner and out tierods are not a huge problem, but it's not uncommon for them to get a little loose around the same mileage, especially the inners. steering problems will require the car to be in the air to diagnose, but the control bushings can be inspected visually for tears (or cracks, which will become tears). the spring seats can be tested by putting an 18mm wrench on the nut in center of the strut tower. if you turn the nut to the right and it moves freely (as opposed to it feeling 'springy'), the seats are torn.

ABS modules are about as big as throttles. dealer price is about $600-900 depending on the car's options. what's worse is that the module is on the high speed network close the ECM and TCM, and can cause the entire system to become flaky. on occasion i've seen cars totally lose communication with the ECM because of a bad BCM (brake control module). a bad ETM (throttle module, not the 'slave' model) can cause the same thing.

those are all the really specific problems i can think of at the moment, but there are more. the cars aren't total crap, but if you buy a ten year old volvo, prepare to drop some cash. i'd much rather have an 04+ S40 or the new S80/V70, those are solid cars.

edit: oh, i forgot the mention the other electronics. most of the interior stuff is solid, but other common problems include steering wheel modules (controls blinker functions and whatnot, sits behind the wheel) and door modules (on those cars, same thing as the window switch assembly).

 

[Zenmervolt]

I should point out that I was thinking of the 2000 MY US cars, which were evolutions of the older 850 design. For 2001 and 2002, the cars are the P2 platform that brblx described extremely well.

The comments I made about the drivetrain do carry over for the most part to the P2 cars, but since the interior parts weren't carried over, my comments about the switchgear's reliability in my '98 won't apply to the 2001 and newer cars.

ZV

 

[kornphlake]

Thanks for the info BRBLX, that's exactly the info I was after, including costs! I might pass on the volvo unless I can find one of the '04 or newer models in my price range. It sounds like I'd be buying a vehicle that has enough mileage that it would need several of these fairly expensive repairs. Your opinion of Volvo and their warranty service is another reason to shy away from them, even if I could find a newer vehicle.

 

[Gand1]

I would definitely be wary of 2002 and a little earlier. There seems to be a transmission problem in them that causes the trans to slip and prematurely destroy it. Other than that and a few electrical gremlins, most of them are pretty solid. And yes, I have had my tranny replaced twice in my 2002 XC.

 

[brblx]

volvo is actually pretty good about warrantying anything, so long as it's in the first 50k. they're just trying to ride out the rest of this ten years while replacing as few throttles as possible- by about 2012, most of the problem cars will not be eligible for warranty anymore. the older x70 cars are pretty much done, unless they got delivered in mid-late 2000.

the low prices on these cars are mostly due to known repair costs. it was not uncommon for some little used car dealer to buy a fairly cherry-looking 2000ish s80 at the auto auction, naively thinking that it was a great deal because he could get it for next to nothing. repair costs would far exceed the value of the car, nine times out of ten.

only way i'd touch a car of that vintage would be if it was both dirt cheap and meticulously maintained. you're unlikely to find both. even an 05-09 P2 will not be super cheap to own. you can negate some of the cost by being able to do your own basic work (front end stuff, oil trap, et al are doable), but if you run into network problems of other electrical/electronic issues, costs can stack up quick.

 

[Lotheron]

Why not go for a V70R?

 

[afterd4rk]

Volvo is by far the best

 

[Lazy Dog]

Volvo's from 99-2003 are to be avoided, they have lots of problems with 5 speed trans and the Electronic Throttle Module and other minor stuff like the Immobilizer ring. Does why they are cheap to buy but expensive to repair. I am a Volvo holic that maintains 8 cars in the family.

 

[thilanliyan]

From what I understand the P2 Volvos up to about 2004 have transmission issues (slipping gears I think), apparently a $25 part fixes that issue if caught early.

I have a 2006 S60 2.5T AWD myself. I got it at 160k kms and now have 266k kms on it in 5 yrs. I did the timing belt and water pump when I got it (they turned out to be fine) and I also did a transmission flush. I've been using synthetic oil, changing every 10k kms. All the electronics on the car are fine. The engine mounts (and possibly the tranny mounts) wear out, and I've done the top one twice and the bottom ones once. I've replaced spring seats and shocks on the front, and some other bushings as well in the front suspension IIRC. I replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure regulator but the hesitation turned out to be the fuel pressure sensor (fuel pump was a PITA DIY job lol). Next major maintenance is the PCV system.

 

[IronWing]

Necro