Thoughts on upbringing, ethics, morals and culture in our society.

ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,094
123
106
So I been thinking... What the hell is wrong with people nowadays? When did it become OK to:

1)Put your feet on seats in a train or bus
2)Get on your bed in your own home or someone's home while still in your shoes or get on the carpet without taking them off first.
3)Talk back/argue to your teacher in school or college.
4)Leave your junk after eating or drinking in public transportation or public place such as library or college class/computer lab... or any other place for that matter.
5)Curse at or argue with the elderly.
6)Take little kids to R rated movies.

and many many other things....

The way I was raised, none of these things are even remotely ok, and while I may have been angry at my parents at certain points of my life, overall, I have to admit that I am thankful for my upbringing, and honestly feel that they made me a better person.

But why is it, that these same "values" are missing in so many people today? Living in NYC, I fully understand that people come here from all over the world, each bringing their own lifestyle and their own values/outlooks on life. Many people come from poor families where mother and father were not able to instill any positive value in their kids.
Still, whats absolutely terrible is that for the most part, our society simply doesn't give a damn... What's worse, we have laws and regulations in place, to tie the hands of those who might even think of trying to do something about it.

God forbid, that a teacher in school would allow himself to scream at, or hit a child for acting out or being extremely rude. While I agree that hitting is a no-no in most cases, raising voice can and should be ok in extreme cases. Sadly people get sued for just about anything, and teachers are often afraid to do what is necessary because of that.
A teacher can talk to a student i n firm voice, and then the parent will go and say that he was screaming, and that teacher will be thrown out and lose his job.

Several times, I heard kids on a bus screaming like crazed animals, and the bus driver would tell them to be quiet. You know what they tell him? It's literally "Shut the fuck up, you cant do shit to us we're underage". And when someone says "we're gonna call police", the response is "Go ahead.... PLEASE, call the police! hahahahah"

Now I ask you.. How is something like this ok, and what kind of a society we live in that's bringing up young individuals such as this?

I am not one of those people, obsessed with saving the planet, protecting nature and all that, but it seems only logical to me that I would not leave an empty soda bottle or a cheeseburger wrap on a desk in my college classroom, because I have to come back there again and again, and I want to be in a clean class, not a pig stock.

I spoke to one such "littering" student once.. You know what he told me? "Let the maintenance take care of it, that's what they're getting paid for... They are getting paid to WORK, right?! So let them work!"

I was so shocked by such a response, that I couldn't even speak for two seconds or so... When I started explaining to the guy that this is NOT what the maintenance is getting paid for and that they have enough work already, the response was that I am being ridiculous and I should just.. shut up..

I know, that this is all stemming from the way people are brought up. Because many times parents are unable to discipline their children someone else should be able to do this INSTEAD of them. Regrettably, the prison often has to fulfill that role, because for the most part, no one else legally can!!! By that time, it is usually just too late.

So I am thinking, when will people wake up, and realize that we have a very major problem on our hands? Maybe, just maybe.. We should be a little less paranoid about Iran, and spend some of that money to build various new programs in schools to improve our society?
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,671
6,036
136
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

~ socrates, circa 425 BC
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Back to the rest home grandpa.

Honestly, I blame a lot of society's problems on society. We have stupid fucking laws that raise kids to know that most laws are fucking stupid and antiquated and not worth following.

For example, Marijuana laws, Underage drinking, speeding, etc.
When the vast majority of society believes that these laws are meaningless and "okay" to be broken (which they do) it removes any respect for the law.

Stupid laws make all laws seem stupid.
Also who fucking cares.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,500
2,426
136
So I been thinking... What the hell is wrong with people nowadays? When did it become OK to:

1)Put your feet on seats in a train or bus
2)Get on your bed in your own home or someone's home while still in your shoes or get on the carpet without taking them off first.
3)Talk back/argue to your teacher in school or college.
4)Leave your junk after eating or drinking in public transportation or public place such as library or college class/computer lab... or any other place for that matter.
5)Curse at or argue with the elderly.
6)Take little kids to R rated movies.

and many many other things....

The way I was raised, none of these things are even remotely okay,

But why is it, that these same "values" are missing in so many people today?

It still not okay where I come from, we keep the "values" our elders have passed down to us. We always know how to say "thank you" for simple things.

Go to ghettos where they are accepted as "normal" everyday behavior. :hmm:
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Also this thread will be filled with "golden age" fallacies left and right. Fact is if you went back, 10, 20, 30, 40, 100, 300, 1000 years ago, whatever bullshit amount you want, it would is probably still very close to how it is now.

You think some homeless kid during the depression had these great morals? Fuck no.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
So I been thinking... What the hell is wrong with people nowadays? When did it become OK to:

2)Get on your bed in your own home or someone's home while still in your shoes or get on the carpet without taking them off first.
When did it become morally OK for you to tell me what to do on my own bed in my own home? "Oh my God, that man is wearing shoes on property he LEGALLY OWNS. THE HORROR." Seriously, what kind of a question is that? I got that far and I had to take a sip of water just so I could do a spit-take on my monitor.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,458
35,106
136
We didn't use to argue with the elderly because the elderly didn't used to be such assholes.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,671
6,036
136
images
 

ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,094
123
106
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

~ socrates, circa 425 BC

Good one. ; ) I know there's nothing new under the sun. But it feels like there was more being done about these things in the past as opposed to now.

When did it become morally OK for you to tell me what to do on my own bed in my own home? "Oh my God, that man is wearing shoes on property he LEGALLY OWNS. THE HORROR." Seriously, what kind of a question is that? I got that far and I had to take a sip of water just so I could do a spit-take on my monitor.


I am not telling you what to do. You are correct, I have no right to do that. I am telling you how I feel about that. You can spit on your monitor all you want. That being said, I am very interested to hear your honest opinion about why it is normal to take your shoes where you sleep... Just saying.

We didn't use to argue with the elderly because the elderly didn't used to be such assholes.

How so? I hardly ever met any. And even when they are, I just walk away instead of cursing them out. What satisfaction would I get out of cursing out an OLD MAN ?


ok....

Back to the rest home grandpa.

I'm 30... But hey, I guess I am then.

Also who fucking cares.

I do. And it's too bad you don't. Cause if you did, and a million others did, we could actually change something...
 
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AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,447
133
106
Get ready to be crucified.

When I posted about my friends putting wet drinks and their dirty shoes on my nice wood coffee table after I'd asked them to please not I got told:

- it was my fault for having snooty wood furniture; ikea stuff should be good enough for anyone
- I am a lousy friend and posters were sure as hell glad they don't know me
- I have no right to correct other people's manners
- I should diaf

etc etc.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,693
11,059
126
Some of the stuff in your OP matters, and some of it doesn't. You're mixing a wide range of activities, and cultural traditions.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
1)Put your feet on seats in a train or bus
2)Get on your bed in your own home or someone's home while still in your shoes or get on the carpet without taking them off first.
3)Talk back/argue to your teacher in school or college.
4)Leave your junk after eating or drinking in public transportation or public place such as library or college class/computer lab... or any other place for that matter.
5)Curse at or argue with the elderly.
6)Take little kids to R rated movies.

1) i agree.
2) what i can't get in my bed or walk on my floor how i want? I have never taken shoes off walking in anyones home. it was never done. so no big deal on this one.
3) i really don't have a issue unless its just flat out being rude. IF you are told something is wrong when it is not then yes say so. If the teacher thinks your opinion is wrong defend it. There is a diffrence between talking back and arguing a point. maybe you need to learn that along with the kids.
4) i agree. clean up after yourself.
5) you should not curse at them. but again i don't' see not arguing if done polity.
6) i agree. little kids (under 14) should not be at R movies.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
Two observations and one quote.

One
Lawyers have taught everyone that they have "rights." Morals, ethics, and responsibilities are something for suckers...

Two
Many people have lost the ability to distinguish between what is appropriate behaviour when they are alone in their living room and what is appropriate behaviour when they are out in public.


One of the most poignant quotes that I ever saw was from Nguyen Cao Ky. At the time he was running a liqueur store. (Can't remember where it was, maybe DC.) He said words to the effect of:

"You know during the war. I was honest. I never took a bribe. Even though lots of people said I was dirty.

But knowing what I know now, I would have done it differently because here (USA) no one cares if you are honest. They only care if you have money."

In other words, too many people now want to "be somebody." Too few people want to "do something."

Uno
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Two observations and one quote.

One
Lawyers have taught everyone that they have "rights." Morals, ethics, and responsibilities are something for suckers...

Two
Many people have lost the ability to distinguish between what is appropriate behaviour when they are alone in their living room and what is appropriate behaviour when they are out in public.


One of the most poignant quotes that I ever saw was from Nguyen Cao Ky. At the time he was running a liqueur store. (Can't remember where it was, maybe DC.) He said words to the effect of:

"You know during the war. I was honest. I never took a bribe. Even though lots of people said I was dirty.

But knowing what I know now, I would have done it differently because here (USA) no one cares if you are honest. They only care if you have money."

In other words, too many people now want to "be somebody." Too few people want to "do something."

Uno

err wrong.

lawyers didn't teach us we have rights. i hope kids learned that in school.

Also you can still have rights, ethics and morals. That is a far cry from common courtesy wich is almost everything on his list. Some are outside the norm of culture in the US also (really taking your shoes off?)
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
OP, I agree with you. Our society and culture has changed dramatically from the post WWII era. As with most things involving humans, there's never a clear cut cause and effect because so many factors affect behavior.

The one factor that stands out to me is the lack of a parent at home due to the need for both parents to work. In the dark ages when I grew up, there was also social pressure for all adults to monitor and correct children as part of our culture. I believe both are major factors in our current impolite society.

As a country, culture and, community, we have not yet successfully dealt with the lack of adult supervision caused by the need for both parents to work. I remember very well back when corporate punishment was the norm, my mother telling each of my teachers they had every right to "smack me a good one" if I stepped out of line.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
err wrong.

lawyers didn't teach us we have rights. i hope kids learned that in school.

Also you can still have rights, ethics and morals. That is a far cry from common courtesy wich is almost everything on his list. Some are outside the norm of culture in the US also (really taking your shoes off?)

i don't understand how people do NOT take their shoes off....

Sure its your house your choice, but the house stays cleaner yo!

And SHOES IN THE BED? w...t...f? that is like double blasphemy (I try to keep my bed super clean; won't even sit on it until i have showered)
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
2)Get on your bed in your own home or someone's home while still in your shoes or get on the carpet without taking them off first.
Never heard that one, before, with carpet. Never even thought of keeping shoes on to bed, though.
3)Talk back/argue to your teacher in school or college.
When they're wrong, omitting something important, or treating opinion as fact. In college, it was expected, outside of math and science courses.
6)Take little kids to R rated movies.
Whenever parents deem it acceptable. A few explosions and titties won't ruin a kid's mind. The Real Problem, I think, is parents doing that in lieu of finding someone to keep them for a few hours.

A teacher can talk to a student i n firm voice, and then the parent will go and say that he was screaming, and that teacher will be thrown out and lose his job.
The DoE as we know it needs to go away. The school should have the ability to stick up for the teacher and kick the student out, of they so desire. As things go now, this one huge advantage private schools have.

Several times, I heard kids on a bus screaming like crazed animals, and the bus driver would tell them to be quiet. You know what they tell him? It's literally "Shut the fuck up, you cant do shit to us we're underage". And when someone says "we're gonna call police", the response is "Go ahead.... PLEASE, call the police! hahahahah"
Same as above. I recall, when I was in HS, that there were a few people kicked off of buses for being such assholes. A bus driver should not be powerless.

So I am thinking, when will people wake up, and realize that we have a very major problem on our hands? Maybe, just maybe.. We should be a little less paranoid about Iran, and spend some of that money to build various new programs in schools to improve our society?
When it is a crisis that can no longer be ignored or kicked down the road.
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
25,030
5
61
Also this thread will be filled with "golden age" fallacies left and right. Fact is if you went back, 10, 20, 30, 40, 100, 300, 1000 years ago, whatever bullshit amount you want, it would is probably still very close to how it is now.

You think some homeless kid during the depression had these great morals? Fuck no.

Homeless kid, prolly not.

But back when people knew their neighbors and the man who owned the grocery store, and the lady who worked the post office, someone would have called the little twerp's mother and told her he was filthying up the neighborhood. And if the mother didn't set him straight, a personal visit from the po-po would follow.

But now people don't know their neighbors, or the people they buy from. There's no reputation to protect, and no one whose eye you have to meet on the street.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
OP, I agree with most of your post with the exception of spending more in schools.

More and more folks think acting stupid/being a jerk = cool.

Spending more in schools =! better results.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,594
14,995
146
None of those things was OK when I was a kid either...but folks still did them. None of them are OK nowadays...and people still do them.

Some people try to instill the right manners, ethics, and morals in their children...and the kids still end up as serial killers. <shrug>
 

SZLiao214

Diamond Member
Sep 9, 2003
3,270
2
81
The thing i can truly not stand is the situation where a family's kids are out of control in public and the parents ignore it.

Kids who decide that chopsticks are drumsticks or babies that scream for 30 minutes without the parent looking their way enrage me.

Overall i think society as a whole seems to be less able to behave in public.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Back to the rest home grandpa.

Honestly, I blame a lot of society's problems on society. We have stupid fucking laws that raise kids to know that most laws are fucking stupid and antiquated and not worth following.

For example, Marijuana laws, Underage drinking, speeding, etc.
When the vast majority of society believes that these laws are meaningless and "okay" to be broken (which they do) it removes any respect for the law.

Stupid laws make all laws seem stupid.
Also who fucking cares.

these are not new laws
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
0
It is 110% society, specifically parents.

Most parents are the most self-centered, inconsiderate, conceited assholes in society. I know you parents don't think so, any *maybe* you are in the .001% who are decent, but the rest are absolutely blind to anything outside of their bubble.

I could make a list of thousands of things parents do that are wrong, but what it really boils down to is... Your kid is not special. Your genes are not special. Your kid is NOT more important than these other people around you.


It's not the kids that are the problem, it's the idiotic parents.