Thoughts on the welfare state and justice system

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
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So every now and then, meaning pretty much every weekend, I like to sit down with a bowl and challenge any long held convictions I have, which are usually fairly conservative in nature (Yes, conservatives toke too, we just dont wear tshirts announcing that we do).

So I started thinking about the way we run our criminal justice system and welfare state, as opposed to the way Europe does it. We all know that the U.S. has much higher crime, and higher poverty since welfare doesnt pay that much. We in the U.S. tend to think that criminals in Europe get off really easy, and also that too many people live off welfare in Europe. Here in the U.S., we like to "make people pay" for their crimes, and then when they get out of jail, they pay for it the rest of their lives considering a felony record pretty much traps you in poverty since noone will hire you for above minimum wage. I began to think that maybe Europe has it figured out.

It understandably irks the shit out of law abiding hard working people to see some lazy people that dont work hard making a meager living off our tax dollars, but I've started to think that maybe increased welfare is the answer to the crime problem we have. We essentially buy off the would be criminals. We also stop ruining peoples lives with prison sentences and criminal records for the lesser crimes so they have the opportunity to turn themselves around. I imagine most criminal activity stems from poverty, so maybe if welfare were just enough to allow people to buy a few things for themselves, they wouldnt feel inclined to rob someone so they can afford a flashy new cellphone or set of rims every once in a while.

What do you think, or should I just lay off the pipe??


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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,425
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At least you don't ask yourself an easy question. Human nature is very complex and how to manage society an ancient and evolving question.

I see these issues:

If you give a person a fish they eat fish for a day, but if you teach them to fish they can fish for a lifetime.

Attitude is everything. A person with a good attitude can't be held down and one with a poor attitude can't be helped.

Nobody values what they do not earn.

Competition is hostility. America is a profoundly competitive and violent nation.

Competition, feelings of inferiority, the desperate need to get ahead and feel accepted create endless emotional needs which consumerism create, play on, and cultivate. This creates more dissatisfaction, more false need, and more competitiveness.

People will kill for self respect. A deprecating society is one filled with violence. You do not dish the man.

Beware of him you help for he will turn around as soon as possible and bite your hand.

All opposites are dissolved in higher understanding.

For example, help a person by teaching him how to fish but do it anonymously and without his knowledge that he is being helped.
 

d3n

Golden Member
Mar 13, 2004
1,597
0
0
I agree with Moonbeam on the general trend of the statements in his post.

I think we have seen with Katrina what human nature is when the lid is lifted off of normalcy and everyday life is turned upside down for a group of people. We have laws to cover the individual cases of people tossing societies rules out the window. When something affects a group you have riots and open hostility between the haves and the have not. In this case it is all about the perception of equality. Society needs something else when the crap hits the fan.

In my mind the Government is best when kept out of every day life. Let people commune together and share a common set of belief and set of moral values and leave the Government to police the actions that result from those values when they infringe on the rights of others. I see a trend where groups of people think Government should be a tool to impose their set of believes on others. Obviously some value sets have no place. Its the imperfect nature of people that govern to strike a balance for a societies benefit. That whole process creates animosity and resentment.

As for the conflict between those with material positions and those who desire them. That is law of the jungle type of thinking. No utopia will completely remove those tendencies. The fall back is the values and what has been instilled into people by upbringing and convictions. The moral code someone goes by when no one is looking.

As I see it the number one influencer of someones values is parenting and that parent child bond. Parents apathetic or outstanding are the ones that provide tools (however meager) for success and instilling those values. You can't get that from Government schools or welfare programs. Not unless you remove kids from the parents at birth and indoctrinate them.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
So every now and then, meaning pretty much every weekend, I like to sit down with a bowl and challenge any long held convictions I have, which are usually fairly conservative in nature (Yes, conservatives toke too, we just dont wear tshirts announcing that we do).

We also stop ruining peoples lives with prison sentences and criminal records for the lesser crimes so they have the opportunity to turn themselves around.

What do you think, or should I just lay off the pipe??

Mods should be handling what is illegal in the U.S.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
So every now and then, meaning pretty much every weekend, I like to sit down with a bowl and challenge any long held convictions I have, which are usually fairly conservative in nature (Yes, conservatives toke too, we just dont wear tshirts announcing that we do).

We also stop ruining peoples lives with prison sentences and criminal records for the lesser crimes so they have the opportunity to turn themselves around.

What do you think, or should I just lay off the pipe??

Wow, speaking of criminals.

We have criminals openly posting on P&N now?

Are you posting from prison?

Jesus, what a small world you live in. Yes, I'm posting from prison because I like to partake in the MJ every once in a while.

Every time I think my opinion of you cant go any lower, you somehow manage to surprise me.
 

yankeesfan

Diamond Member
Aug 6, 2004
5,923
1
71
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
So every now and then, meaning pretty much every weekend, I like to sit down with a bowl and challenge any long held convictions I have, which are usually fairly conservative in nature (Yes, conservatives toke too, we just dont wear tshirts announcing that we do).

We also stop ruining peoples lives with prison sentences and criminal records for the lesser crimes so they have the opportunity to turn themselves around.

What do you think, or should I just lay off the pipe??

Wow, speaking of criminals.

We have criminals openly posting on P&N now?

Are you posting from prison?
Hey Dave, what was the maximum sentence for the crime that the government was going after you for?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
So every now and then, meaning pretty much every weekend, I like to sit down with a bowl and challenge any long held convictions I have, which are usually fairly conservative in nature (Yes, conservatives toke too, we just dont wear tshirts announcing that we do).

We also stop ruining peoples lives with prison sentences and criminal records for the lesser crimes so they have the opportunity to turn themselves around.

What do you think, or should I just lay off the pipe??

Wow, speaking of criminals.

We have criminals openly posting on P&N now?

Are you posting from prison?

Jesus, what a small world you live in. Yes, I'm posting from prison because I like to partake in the MJ every once in a while.

Every time I think my opinion of you cant go any lower, you somehow manage to surprise me.

When Marijuana is as legal as tobacco get back to me.

Until then it is criminal activity.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: yankeesfan
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
So every now and then, meaning pretty much every weekend, I like to sit down with a bowl and challenge any long held convictions I have, which are usually fairly conservative in nature (Yes, conservatives toke too, we just dont wear tshirts announcing that we do).

We also stop ruining peoples lives with prison sentences and criminal records for the lesser crimes so they have the opportunity to turn themselves around.

What do you think, or should I just lay off the pipe??

Wow, speaking of criminals.

We have criminals openly posting on P&N now?

Are you posting from prison?

Hey Dave, what was the maximum sentence for the crime that the government was going after you for?

120 Years