Thoughts on suspension upgrades

[Atty]

\Atty's talking about dropping the money on a bigger turbo on a relatively stock car which would in all likelyhood exacerbate wheel hop and traction issues.

Wait, to be clear, I will not be going K04 or big turbo. I never plan to.

In all honesty, rather than sink loads of money into a car in upgrades for that kind of power and supporting mods to hold it all together, I would go out and trade the GTI for something faster from the start.

 

[JCH13]

Not sure how much stock I'd put in a website that focuses on Merkur XR4Ti parts...

Had 30K on the stock suspension when I upgraded so I wouldn't call it blown by any means. Tires depends on the season but the 3 sets I currently have are RE960AS, V12 EVO, and RS3. The RS3's are shot but I haven't used them since my last track day.

Power level is nothing special, just stage 2 with full exhaust/intake/additional intercooler.

I would describe it as an oscillating motion that starts when the tires slip and regain traction. Only way to stop it once it starts is to let off the gas and let the car settle.

Mounts are only part of the equation. Tire pressure, tires, pavement, atmospheric conditions, and suspension all play a part. Wheel hop is usually more noticeable/repeatable in wet conditions where it's easier to set the oscillation in motion.

I'm not recommending anyone jump in and throw $10,000 in parts on a car in one fell swoop. I've been slowly modifying my car over the last 5+ years. Start with the simple things and (try) to plan out where you want the car to be. Atty's talking about dropping the money on a bigger turbo on a relatively stock car which would in all likelyhood exacerbate wheel hop and traction issues.

Okay, I think we might have a fundamental misunderstanding here... wheel hop is a lot more violent that "an oscillating motion". I would describe it as more of a "holy crap my front end is going to smash itself apart" feeling.

Here is a video of what wheelhop is like.

I can find threads where GTI owners swear that getting motor mounts solve the problem, and other threads where they insist that coilovers that are "super stiff" solve the problem. I find a LOT more threads from other brands/models that all swear by motor mount and suspension bushing upgrades.

I can see how really stiff springs/damping can help control it. They would limit how much the car pitches during launch and thus minimizes the camber, and thus grip, changes on the front tires. However, the fundamental issue is still compliance in the suspension and motor/transmission movement affecting the suspension.

Obviously both routes have had success in reducing/removing wheel hop. However, I view the coilover route as a 'band aid' solution because you're making sacrifices in your $1k-2k suspension's performance in order to cover up a problem that can be solved with $200(?) in motor and transmission mounts and/or suspension bushings, freeing up suspension adjustments to tune the vehicles handling instead of wheel hop.

Wait, to be clear, I will not be going K04 or big turbo. I never plan to.

In all honesty, rather than sink loads of money into a car in upgrades for that kind of power and supporting mods to hold it all together, I would go out and trade the GTI for something faster from the start.

Like a MazdaSpeed3 :awe:

:whiste:

 

[GoatMonkey]

I had an Eibach Pro suspension kit on my 99 Mustang years ago. I wouldn't do it again though. After that experience if I were to upgrade a car I would stick to just some lighter, slightly fatter wheels (not larger diameter though) and a good set of sticky tires. After that, just save up to get a better car.

 

[George.Ech1]

If you do sway bars get adjustable so you can tune it. Don't set it to race immediately like I did... :whiste: To much in the rear causes lots of oversteer, something FWD folks normally don't have to deal with. Sway bars will give you the GTI "wave" (lifting the inside rear wheel in a corner).

I did Bilstein PSS10 coilovers that have 10-way adjustable dampening. Even on the softest setting it is too harsh for daily driving. Great for the track but a back breaker everywhere else. With coilovers I can put it in winter mode so I don't get stuck and then lower it in Spring/Summer. You being in FL (I think) won't have winter to contend with.

Don't bag it/slam it, I hate that part of the VW scene.

K04 on a daily driver is kind of a waste. To really put the power down you need an LSD, mounts (minimum dogbone + insert), and suspension to handle it, not to mention sticky tires. Without you will just make torque steer and wheel hop worse.

George.Ech1... Lets keep the threads new and fresh and not post in the old ones...

AT Moderator
Bartman39


Recently I made the mistake and bought Bilstein PSS10 for my audi TT roadster MK2.
Driving highway and twisty roads the car puts a smile on your face.
Apart from turns, the car handles very good at acceleration and hard braking
However, the compromise is too much.
Needless to say, my back and my neck hurts after 10 days of driving.
Driving to work has become a nightmare, the roads are in bad shape where I live.
I wanted to ask you, I've only done 500km so far and I'm currently at setting 1, the softert, both front and rear.
is this ever going to go a bit softer, like after 2000km? Or this is it? I feel the ride too harsh.
Also, coming from a person that had the same problems with me, what did you end up buying?
Is koni yellow with eibach pro springs (20mm lowering) more acceptable, or still harsh like hell?
Thank you for your help man!

 

[JulesMaximus]

A lot of lowering springs are simply just garbage. I've seen ones that drop the car 1.5-2" or more while keeping stock spring rates (hello bounciness), and I've seen ones that make it feel like you may as well have just welded the suspension solid. A lot of kits are also not well-matched, and it's not uncommon for their dampers to eat themselves, even though they're supposed to be 'matched' to the lowering springs.

I think most cars can benefit from a mild spring upgrade and something like Koni yellow (sport) shocks. Worst case, you need to slack the damping settings off a lot to get a decent ride. Handling is still generally going to be better.

I had Koni yellow shocks/struts on a Mustang GT I owned years ago and they were a vast improvement over the stock dampers. The car had Eibach lowering springs already installed when I bought it but they had done a poor job fitting them and the rear axle would crash into the rubber block at the top of the tunnel where the driveshaft goes into the rear axle. When I had the rear gears replaced they put in a smaller rubber block and that problem went away. The shocks/struts worked much better with the lowering springs and car still rode reasonably well when left in the softer dampening settings. If you set those Konis to stiff though it was as if you filled them with concrete. They were really stiff.

 

[jlee]

Thread revival!

I love the Koni Yellow / Eibach Pro-kit setup on my MR2.

 

[cbrsurfr]

Recently I made the mistake and bought Bilstein PSS10 for my audi TT roadster MK2.
Driving highway and twisty roads the car puts a smile on your face.
Apart from turns, the car handles very good at acceleration and hard braking
However, the compromise is too much.
Needless to say, my back and my neck hurts after 10 days of driving.
Driving to work has become a nightmare, the roads are in bad shape where I live.
I wanted to ask you, I've only done 500km so far and I'm currently at setting 1, the softert, both front and rear.
is this ever going to go a bit softer, like after 2000km? Or this is it? I feel the ride too harsh.
Also, coming from a person that had the same problems with me, what did you end up buying?
Is koni yellow with eibach pro springs (20mm lowering) more acceptable, or still harsh like hell?
Thank you for your help man!

The PSS10's never got softer. I think I put about 40K miles on it before I traded the car in on an Evo X. I kind of wish I had kept it as a beater and put the suspension back to stock. The coilovers started to corrode even though I would grease them up in the winter and it got harder and harder to adjust the ride height twice a year. It had a few other problems: I had a new R32 caliper that would stick and eat through pads, the adjustable sway bar broke, needed valve cleaning, etc.

I now have a Focus hatch as my daily and the Evo X will become more of a track car.

VWVortex would probably be a better resource for you. They have Audi forums as well.

 

[Midwayman]

Is koni yellow with eibach pro springs (20mm lowering) more acceptable, or still harsh like hell?
Thank you for your help man!

Had koni yellows on HR sports on my TL. Full soft on the yellow is still like a firm factory suspension. Little less than half is all I could tolerate on the street.

 

[Toastedlightly]

I'm using Koni sports on a '99 Miata with stock springs and a thicker front sway (AutoX setup). I like it a lot more than the stock setup (slightly stiffer, somewhat adjustable). Then again, I only commute 6 miles each way to work.