Thoughts on suspension upgrades

[Atty]

I notice with the VW/GTI crowd (MK6Forums and those I know in real life) suspension upgrades seem to be a popular topic. Lowering springs, coil overs, air ride suspension, etc.

I'm really wondering if its worth it? Most of my friends who have had lowered cars have said not to do it. Scraping and poor ride quality are just the two biggest annoyances. I do not want to have to worry about hurting my car every time I come to a slight incline or decline.

I suppose if I went K04 (turbo upgrade, 350hp/400tq) it would make sense - stiffer suspension to hold all that power - but otherwise it would seem to be just a aesthetic upgrade.

Maybe I'm wrong. What do you guys think? I will never autocross or track my FWD daily driver that I haven't paid off yet. If I was worried about handling I think I would start with sway bars and stiffer engine mounts before I worry about full suspension upgrades. It just doesn't seem worth it for the money to me.

I appreciate any thoughts and input.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I have had numerous cars with semi serious aftermarket suspensions..

None of the setups really felt that great to me. I've had everything from cheapish ground control coilovers to decent tein coilovers and koni full replacements.

Yeah, great for the track, but as a streetable hoon car I've only been happy with factory-ish sport suspensions. IE slightly stiffer shock with slightly stiffer spring to match and thick swaybars.

In my experience.... The VW crowd is 97% about looks and 3% about handling.

 

[vshah]

i'd start with sway bars, followed by a factory sport suspension if available.

 

[Fenixgoon]

i'd start with sway bars, followed by a factory sport suspension if available.

sway bars are not necessarily going to make the vehicle handle better. depending on the sizing you choose, they may make the car more over or understeer prone.

i would go with a solid aftermarket suspension first. sway bars tend to be used to tune the handling characteristics once you understand what your car does and when.

generally it means you are going to pay $$$ for something actually good unless you find a deal on used parts. spring size, spring rate, preload, and shock damping/rebound need to be designed together as a system.

some kits are the equivalent of putting some shocks on and throwing short, stiff springs on. i own one of such kits. the ride was incredibly harsh because, despite the increased stiffness of the springs, there was so little travel available.

 

[Atty]

sway bars are not necessarily going to make the vehicle handle better. depending on the sizing you choose, they may make the car more over or understeer prone.

From the reviews of serious track drivers at various forums, getting the sway bars I was looking at make a huge upgrade. I think at its medium setting I'm looking at 45% stiffer front end and 120% stiffer rear. They said it eliminates the poor form the car has through turns with moderate power down and allows better higher speed cornering.

 

[phucheneh]

A lot of lowering springs are simply just garbage. I've seen ones that drop the car 1.5-2" or more while keeping stock spring rates (hello bounciness), and I've seen ones that make it feel like you may as well have just welded the suspension solid. A lot of kits are also not well-matched, and it's not uncommon for their dampers to eat themselves, even though they're supposed to be 'matched' to the lowering springs.

I think most cars can benefit from a mild spring upgrade and something like Koni yellow (sport) shocks. Worst case, you need to slack the damping settings off a lot to get a decent ride. Handling is still generally going to be better.

 

[phucheneh]

Sorry if it seems not 'in the spirit' of ATG to discuss stuff I'm getting paid to do (and/or just douchey), but FWIW-

I have parts on order for an RSX. It's the 6MT 'Type S.' It's a competent little handler already, but the goal is a solid weekend auto-x car. It's going from bone stock to Koni yellows, H&R sportlines, and pretty fat swaybars, plus the accompanying bushings and end links. I can give a report of how noticeable the improvement is (should be 'very') and how much damage it does to ride quality. The latter bit is more questionable, but I don't think it should be too bad.

The H&R springs are usually something like a 20% increase in stiffness with a mild drop; I've got a lot more faith in them than I do a lot of 'tuner' brands, be it one of the Japanese companies or someone like Eibach (personally, I avoid Eibach; way too inconsistent across different vehicles, and their 'street' springs seem like they're just for looks). Shocks should be capable of a factory-ish ride, but they'll be set a bit stiffer. The comparative front/rear setting can also make a huge difference, even while being overall very compliant. And the bars should put it on rails. 27mm front, adjustable 24mm with a tie bar in the rear. Progress is another company I have a decent amount of faith in.

I think it should be a really good study in taking a competent FWD car and trying to really make the handling great with basic parts. I will post a report of how it goes. May very well influence me putting some parts on my Mazda.

 

[JCH13]

I notice with the VW/GTI crowd (MK6Forums and those I know in real life) suspension upgrades seem to be a popular topic. Lowering springs, coil overs, air ride suspension, etc.

I'm really wondering if its worth it? Most of my friends who have had lowered cars have said not to do it. Scraping and poor ride quality are just the two biggest annoyances. I do not want to have to worry about hurting my car every time I come to a slight incline or decline.

I suppose if I went K04 (turbo upgrade, 350hp/400tq) it would make sense - stiffer suspension to hold all that power - but otherwise it would seem to be just a aesthetic upgrade.

Maybe I'm wrong. What do you guys think? I will never autocross or track my FWD daily driver that I haven't paid off yet. If I was worried about handling I think I would start with sway bars and stiffer engine mounts before I worry about full suspension upgrades. It just doesn't seem worth it for the money to me.

I appreciate any thoughts and input.

Saying that is like saying "I should get my snorkel because I'm going golfing." Put all the power you want through stock suspension, it'll be fine. You might want LCA bushings/inserts and motor mounts to control wheel hop, but not stiffer suspension.

In my experience.... The VW crowd is 97% about looks and 3% about handling.

This x eleventy billion. I would NOT trust a single VW suspension suggestion without VERY careful scrutiny of where it's coming from.

sway bars are not necessarily going to make the vehicle handle better. depending on the sizing you choose, they may make the car more over or understeer prone.

i would go with a solid aftermarket suspension first. sway bars tend to be used to tune the handling characteristics once you understand what your car does and when.

generally it means you are going to pay $$$ for something actually good unless you find a deal on used parts. spring size, spring rate, preload, and shock damping/rebound need to be designed together as a system.

some kits are the equivalent of putting some shocks on and throwing short, stiff springs on. i own one of such kits. the ride was incredibly harsh because, despite the increased stiffness of the springs, there was so little travel available.

Your first point is more or less true. Though consider this: with a mac-strut suspension, like a VW GTI, there is no camber gain with roll to keep the tire happy. Thus any camber setting will be a compromise. Either fast inside wear with great turning traction, or reduced wear with POSITIVE camber during cornering. Anti-roll bars will, you guessed it, keep the car from rolling as much. This means that during hard cornering the tire will gain less camber and tend to be happier.

Your point of balancing the car with the sway bars regarding understeer and oversteer is spot-on. A good sway bar kit will be adjustable and not insanely stiffer than stock.

Your second point is quite frequently the case. Poorly matched and underdamped aftermarket kits are quite common.

A lot of lowering springs are simply just garbage. I've seen ones that drop the car 1.5-2" or more while keeping stock spring rates (hello bounciness), and I've seen ones that make it feel like you may as well have just welded the suspension solid. A lot of kits are also not well-matched, and it's not uncommon for their dampers to eat themselves, even though they're supposed to be 'matched' to the lowering springs.

I think most cars can benefit from a mild spring upgrade and something like Koni yellow (sport) shocks. Worst case, you need to slack the damping settings off a lot to get a decent ride. Handling is still generally going to be better.

This x eleventy billion also.

Getting sane spring rates is very important. Ask me how I know...

I would, however, steer clear of Koni Yellow Sports unless you're getting a group-buy from a suspension tuner who is selling MATCHED sets. The damping adjustments are notorious for varying widely from shock-to-shock and generally don't do so great with super-stiff springs.

As the owner of a highish-hp FWD car I would suggest the following: upgrade sway bars to something adjustable and a bit stiffer so you can get the balance where you like it and roll less. Upgrade your shocks while keeping stock springs. Your GTI already has 'factory sport' springs, but quite frequently 'sport' shocks are crap from OEMs.

Look into Koni FSD, Tokico Illunima (not HP), or Bilstein shocks/struts. Leaning towards the Tokico Illumina if you think you might get stiffer springs sometime, that's what's on my Miata. The FSD is a really nice compromise between handling and comfort, that's what's on my MS3. The Bilstein will be slightly cheaper (generally) but very durable and are generally capable of handling slightly stiff springs than stock. I don't have direct experience with these, but they get almost unanimously positive reviews.

I spent a lot of time researching, thinking, and mathing the situation you're in.

 

[cbrsurfr]

If you do sway bars get adjustable so you can tune it. Don't set it to race immediately like I did... :whiste: To much in the rear causes lots of oversteer, something FWD folks normally don't have to deal with. Sway bars will give you the GTI "wave" (lifting the inside rear wheel in a corner).

I did Bilstein PSS10 coilovers that have 10-way adjustable dampening. Even on the softest setting it is too harsh for daily driving. Great for the track but a back breaker everywhere else. With coilovers I can put it in winter mode so I don't get stuck and then lower it in Spring/Summer. You being in FL (I think) won't have winter to contend with.

Don't bag it/slam it, I hate that part of the VW scene.

K04 on a daily driver is kind of a waste. To really put the power down you need an LSD, mounts (minimum dogbone + insert), and suspension to handle it, not to mention sticky tires. Without you will just make torque steer and wheel hop worse.

 

[cbrsurfr]

Saying that is like saying "I should get my snorkel because I'm going golfing." Put all the power you want through stock suspension, it'll be fine. You might want LCA bushings/inserts and motor mounts to control wheel hop, but not stiffer suspension.

I disagree. Changing my suspension made the biggest improvement in reducing wheel hop. I had horrible wheel hop with the stock suspension, even when doing just spirited acceleration from a stop. Passengers would even comment about it. I started with the poly bushing insert, but that didn't do much, then I went to the full on dog bone replacement and that helped a little more. With the coilovers and the damping set to full stiff (in addition to the mounts of course) I almost never get hop. The car launches so much better. Even on soft it's greatly reduced.

 

[phucheneh]

It really depends on if you're talking about FWD or RWD. The philosophies can be quite different. Also, traction in a straight line is different from traction in turns. And planting on a level surface doesn't mean you're not going to lose your shit when you hit a bump.

Basically- it's complicated. But the most important thing to note, IMO, is that FWD's don't depend on weight transfer to get traction. If you look at [RWD] drag setups, they usually involve tall, weak springs in the front, with the intention of unloading quickly and shoving the back end down. I believe that (and weight) is why they don't typically run front sway bars, either.

I would think stiffness would impact a FWD a lot less. In the springs/dampers, that is...fat front sway bars can be trouble, but that goes back to the involvement of corners and uneven surfaces. There will always be situations in which a lack of compliance will result in breaking traction.

 

[JCH13]

I disagree. Changing my suspension made the biggest improvement in reducing wheel hop. I had horrible wheel hop with the stock suspension, even when doing just spirited acceleration from a stop. Passengers would even comment about it. I started with the poly bushing insert, but that didn't do much, then I went to the full on dog bone replacement and that helped a little more. With the coilovers and the damping set to full stiff (in addition to the mounts of course) I almost never get hop. The car launches so much better. Even on soft it's greatly reduced.

I think there must be something else at work in your situation. Fried OEM shocks maybe? Not great tires? I don't know.

http://www.mc2racing.com/tech/20061012a/

My MS3 (which has a K04, stock turbo) can have a lot of traction issues, but not wheel hop. Even with totally shot front struts it didn't exhibit wheel hop. Spinning tires, sure, not wheel hop though.

Edit: what power level/mods/tires are we talking about on your (assumed) GTI?

It really depends on if you're talking about FWD or RWD. The philosophies can be quite different. Also, traction in a straight line is different from traction in turns. And planting on a level surface doesn't mean you're not going to lose your shit when you hit a bump.

Basically- it's complicated. But the most important thing to note, IMO, is that FWD's don't depend on weight transfer to get traction. If you look at [RWD] drag setups, they usually involve tall, weak springs in the front, with the intention of unloading quickly and shoving the back end down. I believe that (and weight) is why they don't typically run front sway bars, either.

I would think stiffness would impact a FWD a lot less. In the springs/dampers, that is...fat front sway bars can be trouble, but that goes back to the involvement of corners and uneven surfaces. There will always be situations in which a lack of compliance will result in breaking traction.

FWD cars depend on a LACK of weight transfer for traction.

Fore-aft weight transfer is a function of CG location, acceleration, and wheelbase. Springs may help with compliance, and dampers can affect how quickly weight transfer propagates, but at the end of the day it's all based on the geometry of the car, not spring rates or dampers or sway bars.

Sway bars will change left-right weight transfer though.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

I would, however, steer clear of Koni Yellow Sports unless you're getting a group-buy from a suspension tuner who is selling MATCHED sets.

this x eleventy billion... again.
That eleventy billion ^3.... a lot of eleventy billions.

Anyways, yes. Koni Yellows need to be Shock Dyno tested to make sure they match.

Probably the best thing to do is go to the RACING/MOTORCROSS section of a GTi forum and get the opinion of those guys about suspension upgrades. Most of the guys that do suspension for looks wont also be in the racing/motorcross section, just a way to maybe avoid the Stance Freaks. Dont trust the average joe on the forum - find the experts.

 

[phucheneh]

FWD cars depend on a LACK of weight transfer for traction.

Fore-aft weight transfer is a function of CG location, acceleration, and wheelbase. Springs may help with compliance, and dampers can affect how quickly weight transfer propagates, but at the end of the day it's all based on the geometry of the car, not spring rates or dampers or sway bars.

Sway bars will change left-right weight transfer though.

You just said the same thing a different way.

Also, what's 'CG'? I'm sure I should know, but my brain is not syncing those letters up with anything. Also, doesn't 'it's all in the geometry' go against you saying stiffer generally equals worse traction? Or are you talking about two different things (maximum straight line grip on one hand, keeping traction in corners on the other?).

edit: Are Koni yellows really that bad? I haven't really had bad experiences with them, but then again, you could put every damper at a different setting and it would probably be hard to notice, beyond perhaps a general 'something is off' feeling while driving.

I'm kinda at a loss for anything else to use on that RSX...for some reason, there is very little in the way widely-used performance dampers. No Bilstein, no Tokico. Only sports/yellows from Koni; no FSD's.

 

[JCH13]

You just said the same thing a different way.

Also, what's 'CG'? I'm sure I should know, but my brain is not syncing those letters up with anything. Also, doesn't 'it's all in the geom
etry' go against you saying stiffer generally equals worse traction? Or are you talking about two different things (maximum straight line grip on one hand, keeping traction in corners on the other?).

edit: Are Koni yellows really that bad? I haven't really had bad experiences with them, but then again, you could put every damper at a different setting and it would probably be hard to notice, beyond perhaps a general 'something is off' feeling while driving.

I'm kinda at a loss for anything else to use on that RSX...for some reason, there is very little in the way widely-used performance dampers. No Bilstein, no Tokico. Only sports/yellows from Koni; no FSD's.

Cg = center of gravity

Traction isn't all about one thing or another. Stiff springs can result in really good suspension performance if they are paired with very good shocks. They can even ride beyer than soft springs because they keep you from using the bump stops. Check out fatcatmotorsports for a lot of really good reading on suspension theory and practice.

The rsx is basically a civic, right? Are there any interchangeable parts that you could use?

 

[Atty]

Saying that is like saying "I should get my snorkel because I'm going golfing." Put all the power you want through stock suspension, it'll be fine. You might want LCA bushings/inserts and motor mounts to control wheel hop, but not stiffer suspension.

I only say that because the reviews from people who have gone K04 with stock suspension have said it wasn't enough to hold the power adequately. I'm going by what I've read and heard from others, which is true may not be correct.

As far as research goes, reading over at Mk6 forums the people who have paid close attention to their suspension set ups recommend the stiffer VW DriveGear springs. They say the drop the NA vehicle down into what the EU spec vehicle was originally designed for. The drop is minimal (3/4'') but it puts the car down where it was originally designed.

There is a huge thread on it over on their forums. People who have gone coilerover (and since removed them), replaced knuckles, LCAs, bushings, etc. All in search of the best suspension set up.

The person I bought the downpipe from told me he swears by the DG spring install too. It gives the car a much better characteristic, since its a VW part its perfectly warrantable, and they are not expensive direct from VW ($150~).

To the wheel hop issue, I feel it on my GTI the way it is now. Based on every review and opinion I've heard the only way to eliminate it is to use the subframe mount insert and upgrade the engine/trans mount. The stock ones have way too much flex in them and after running higher power levels end up failing short into the cars life (40k miles). Personally, I am looking at 60-65a poly mounts to replace the stock ones. I just have to find a brand and design I approve of. I don't want vibrant yellow or green mounts in my car.

 

[Arkaign]

Sounds like you're on the right path, lots of great advice and info in this thread! I'm so happy you won't end up like those fools that just get the stock springs cut and ride around slamming on their bumpstops, driving over railroad tracks at negative mph, and just generally looking cool only to themselves, haha.

 

[JCH13]

I only say that because the reviews from people who have gone K04 with stock suspension have said it wasn't enough to hold the power adequately. I'm going by what I've read and heard from others, which is true may not be correct.

As far as research goes, reading over at Mk6 forums the people who have paid close attention to their suspension set ups recommend the stiffer VW DriveGear springs. They say the drop the NA vehicle down into what the EU spec vehicle was originally designed for. The drop is minimal (3/4'') but it puts the car down where it was originally designed.

There is a huge thread on it over on their forums. People who have gone coilerover (and since removed them), replaced knuckles, LCAs, bushings, etc. All in search of the best suspension set up.

The person I bought the downpipe from told me he swears by the DG spring install too. It gives the car a much better characteristic, since its a VW part its perfectly warrantable, and they are not expensive direct from VW ($150~).

To the wheel hop issue, I feel it on my GTI the way it is now. Based on every review and opinion I've heard the only way to eliminate it is to use the subframe mount insert and upgrade the engine/trans mount. The stock ones have way too much flex in them and after running higher power levels end up failing short into the cars life (40k miles). Personally, I am looking at 60-65a poly mounts to replace the stock ones. I just have to find a brand and design I approve of. I don't want vibrant yellow or green mounts in my car.

The suspension thing is a common misconception. I believe most people who "cure" wheelhop with coilovers had shot struts in the first place, so literally any non-exploded strut would have worked just fine. Most MS3 owners installed LCA bushings, as well as motor mounts/inserts to solve it. The LCA bushings being the most important part of that recipe.

A 3/4in drop sounds reasonable. Not so much as to totally throw off your roll centers I imagine, especially if it brings the car closer to what it was designed for. I'm reading hand-waving about them being 10-15% stiffer than stock, which is pretty decent IMO.

 

[Midwayman]

Suspension seems one of those things that easy to screw up, especially if you go cheap. On nearly every car I've had a stiffer adjustable rear sway bar will solve the majority of handling complaints. Its cheap and normally does wonders.

If you want to go further, look into OEM suspension packages. On my TL there was the a-spec package available that is a nice upgrade, not too expensive, and fully tested. I had a STi suspension on my old impreza, and went with a z06 upgrade on my corvette.

Going aftermarket is tough. There is a lot of stuff out there that sucks. Bad quality and even good quality might not be matched for your car. I ended up with HR springs and koni yellows on my TL and I'm really happy with them. They're a pretty mild package.

I think the big thing to remember is that a lot of people bite off more than they can chew. If you're buying adjustable coil overs do you really understand how to tune them? If not are you willilng to pay a shop to tune them? Most folks would be better off with the OEM upgrades mentioned above. Its not as 'cool' and you can't generally slam your car with it though.

 

[JCH13]

Suspension seems one of those things that easy to screw up, especially if you go cheap. On nearly every car I've had a stiffer adjustable rear sway bar will solve the majority of handling complaints. Its cheap and normally does wonders.

If you want to go further, look into OEM suspension packages. On my TL there was the a-spec package available that is a nice upgrade, not too expensive, and fully tested. I had a STi suspension on my old impreza, and went with a z06 upgrade on my corvette.

Going aftermarket is tough. There is a lot of stuff out there that sucks. Bad quality and even good quality might not be matched for your car. I ended up with HR springs and koni yellows on my TL and I'm really happy with them. They're a pretty mild package.

I think the big thing to remember is that a lot of people bite off more than they can chew. If you're buying adjustable coil overs do you really understand how to tune them? If not are you willilng to pay a shop to tune them? Most folks would be better off with the OEM upgrades mentioned above. Its not as 'cool' and you can't generally slam your car with it though.

100% agree. I would add that unless you're corner-weighting your adjustable perch coilovers, you're wasting money IMO.

 

[thomsbrain]

I think you should have a very clear picture of a specific handling characteristic you want to cure and understand how spring rates and bump/rebound curves affect handling before you start throwing parts on the car.

That said, almost every FWD will benefit greatly from a stiffer rear anti-sway bar. They are cheap, have little to no penalty in ride quality, and are very easy to install. The benefit will be increased rotation through corners and reduced understeer.

 

[phucheneh]

100% agree. I would add that unless you're corner-weighting your adjustable perch coilovers, you're wasting money IMO.

Say wha? Are you talking about damping rates or spring rates?

I know you know far more about aftermarket stuff than me; this is not a challenge, merely asking for clarification...coilovers are only height adjustable, aren't they? If they come with good, matched spring rates; i.e. both are the same percentage stiffer than stock, or an otherwise tuned/proven pair of spring rates...how's it different from just having adjustable struts with multiple height perches? You're not supposed to compress the spring when you adjust them...or do people do that? If so...aren't the spring rate supposed to be linear? What effect would preload have?

 

[JCH13]

Say wha? Are you talking about damping rates or spring rates?

I know you know far more about aftermarket stuff than me; this is not a challenge, merely asking for clarification...coilovers are only height adjustable, aren't they? If they come with good, matched spring rates; i.e. both are the same percentage stiffer than stock, or an otherwise tuned/proven pair of spring rates...how's it different from just having adjustable struts with multiple height perches? You're not supposed to compress the spring when you adjust them...or do people do that? If so...aren't the spring rate supposed to be linear? What effect would preload have?

I am agreeing with the suggestion that unless you know how to adjust damper rates, or are willing to pay someone to adjust them for you, you're wasting money buying adjustable shocks. Also, unless you have a shock with adjustable rebound AND compression, you're likely going to get "jacking down" which make things really rough and unpredictable. A good shock adjusts rebound and compression together, a great shock allows them to be adjusted independently. Most shocks I've seen only adjust one.

I am adding that with adjustable spring perches, like threaded sleeves or threaded shock bodies with a perch nut, you better be corner-weighting on scales, otherwise you're wasting your money there too. If one of the coilovers is adjusted too high or too low the car will be like a table with one leg too long or two short: two diagonally opposed wheels will be carrying most of the load while the other two do much less work. This can lead to really scary and/or dangerous suspension situations, especially if the adjustment is way off. The car might tend to oversteer in left-hand turns and understeer in right-hand turns. Not good. Some people think that adjusting all of the coilovers to the same number of threads showing per coilover is good enough. If you're really lucky, it might be. However, everything has a tolerance, and no two corners are exactly the same. Thus at best they're just replicating a fixed spring, at worst they're getting a crazy corner-weight.

The spring in a coilover is supposed to be under compression when it is adjusted, and all the time during operation. A mistake I've seen before, most notably on my Miata, is an adjustable coilover with the ability to let the spring go completely slack. This results in discontinuous suspension response, which is rough and unpredictable, and can also result in failed spring perches when the spring shifts when not under any load and gets compressed off-axis.

Exhibit A: my Miata's suspension before I started upgrading it.

Good coilover kits will have long springs to ensure good spring pre-load at all times. Also they might have a 'helper spring' that has a reasonably low spring rate and is designed to be compressed into coil bind during normal operation, but that will keep the main spring under compression during droop. The helper springs aids in having a wide range of suspension height adjustment. Beware of kits where the helper spring is too weak to do anything significant.

As to linear vs progressive spring rates... Some people like progressive spring rates for whatever reason. I never really saw the appeal, either qualitatively or technically. Most of what I've read about them indicates that using progressive springs can result in weird and unpredictable handling characteristics. I believe that this occurs because a variable spring rate means that the shock's effectiveness changes throughout the suspension's travel. A spring might be well-damped at low displacements, but under-damped at higher displacements. Alternatively it may be over-damped at low displacements and well-damped at higher displacements.

TL;DR

The recipe to a good suspension system IMO: good tires, linear springs that mostly keep the car off it's bump stops and don't drop too much, quality progressive bump stops to cushion the transition when it occurs, and shocks that control the springs properly. Add sway bar to taste.

 

[cbrsurfr]

I think there must be something else at work in your situation. Fried OEM shocks maybe? Not great tires? I don't know.

http://www.mc2racing.com/tech/20061012a/

My MS3 (which has a K04, stock turbo) can have a lot of traction issues, but not wheel hop. Even with totally shot front struts it didn't exhibit wheel hop. Spinning tires, sure, not wheel hop though.

Edit: what power level/mods/tires are we talking about on your (assumed) GTI?

Not sure how much stock I'd put in a website that focuses on Merkur XR4Ti parts...

Had 30K on the stock suspension when I upgraded so I wouldn't call it blown by any means. Tires depends on the season but the 3 sets I currently have are RE960AS, V12 EVO, and RS3. The RS3's are shot but I haven't used them since my last track day.

Power level is nothing special, just stage 2 with full exhaust/intake/additional intercooler.

I would describe it as an oscillating motion that starts when the tires slip and regain traction. Only way to stop it once it starts is to let off the gas and let the car settle.

Mounts are only part of the equation. Tire pressure, tires, pavement, atmospheric conditions, and suspension all play a part. Wheel hop is usually more noticeable/repeatable in wet conditions where it's easier to set the oscillation in motion.

I'm not recommending anyone jump in and throw $10,000 in parts on a car in one fell swoop. I've been slowly modifying my car over the last 5+ years. Start with the simple things and (try) to plan out where you want the car to be. Atty's talking about dropping the money on a bigger turbo on a relatively stock car which would in all likelyhood exacerbate wheel hop and traction issues.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Not sure how much stock I'd put in a website that focuses on Merkur XR4Ti parts...

Had 30K on the stock suspension when I upgraded so I wouldn't call it blown by any means. Tires depends on the season but the 3 sets I currently have are RE960AS, V12 EVO, and RS3. The RS3's are shot but I haven't used them since my last track day.

Power level is nothing special, just stage 2 with full exhaust/intake/additional intercooler.

I would describe it as an oscillating motion that starts when the tires slip and regain traction. Only way to stop it once it starts is to let off the gas and let the car settle.

Mounts are only part of the equation. Tire pressure, tires, pavement, atmospheric conditions, and suspension all play a part. Wheel hop is usually more noticeable/repeatable in wet conditions where it's easier to set the oscillation in motion.

I'm not recommending anyone jump in and throw $10,000 in parts on a car in one fell swoop. I've been slowly modifying my car over the last 5+ years. Start with the simple things and (try) to plan out where you want the car to be. Atty's talking about dropping the money on a bigger turbo on a relatively stock car which would in all likelyhood exacerbate wheel hop and traction issues.

there's a guy with a merkur xr4ti who puts down some pretty damn good times in my autocross group. apparently there's quite a cult following for them.