Thoughts on RadeonII, NV20, Rampage

[Varborta]

I think that Nvidia's NV20 is probably going to be out first but not alot earlier than radeon2 which comes out 2nd and rampage would be way later than than both of them considering what 3dfx had gone thru lately and according to their spokesperson things wont happen quickly it would take a long time to adjust things. And matrox wise is unknown... But I doubt they gong to have much competent in the 3d arena against the big 3.
Who maybe the best chip?
As far as best chip I dont know but it would be
NV20 vs Rampage

RadeonII be 3rd

and Matrox trailing last

Let me give some explanation to my prediction.
As we all know 3DFX has gone back to the roots and sold its v6 product which based on the core of current v5 product, the v6 is almost like geforce1 to geforce2 that type of thing adding extra stuff and power or improve things, well, might not be as much of a leap as Geforce1 to GTS. Now, 3dfx is going to be concentrating on its next generation card Rampage and being beaten out so much by nvidia and even gotten surpassed by radeon would put enough pressure on them to release a very good product. But, for that to happen they need alot of time to develop it and plus all those changes been happening lately too

NV20 is no doubt going to be call a completely a new name just like TNT to Geforce and it would be completely NEW and almighty powerful and going to beat Radeon on DX8 feature compliant as well. Afterall, Nvidia is the one thats going to be the chip for Microsoft Xbox and been working most closely with the Microsoft team on DX8 too, and more importantly, Nvidia outsell to the gamer than any other cards on the market rite now so if a gamer developer want to make a game they will definitely consider about Nvidia's chip. similar ideas as to more developer want to create games for Playstation than other consoles because they have the most system out there meaning more people would buy it.
NV20 features would definitely include similar technology as HyperZ they gotta do something about their bottleneck. And possibly introduce T&L 3 or other features they currently have.

RADEONII
as to why I think RadeonII would not be competitive enough when the next generation cards coming out is because their current call RADEOn too is having great difficulty competing against current king Geforce2 . And RadeonII name is enough to give you rough idea that it will be based on current radeon core with some adjustment and improvement here and there. For-example, Hyper ZII and better T&L engine and tapestry technology. So, RadeonII is Improvement over RadeonI like a good updates, but NV20 and Rampage is a completely all new ENGINE in many ways. And lets not to mention current Geforce2 GTS is on top of the Radeon DDR in the case of performancen.

Thats my opinion and thoughts about the next generation card and some comparison

 

[Finality]

One thing I know for sure. With the exception of the Radeon all cores are going to be completely made from scratch. As for the crown its hard to say. This is pretty much a make or break product for 3dfx or it could propell them to the top. I honestly dont see a middle road.

I suspect though that this is going to be nvidias largest chip (physically).

 

[SleepyTim]

Hello Varborta.

Actually, I believe your opinions about Radeon are not accurate. It was beating the GTS in most of 32bit benchmarks when it was launched, and even though GTS now has Detonator 3 drivers, and several more months of maturity, the Radeon still holds it own very well in 32bit, and even wins many of the higher resolution benchmarks, depending on what game, test, etc. And a lot of people feel that the Radeon is simply a better all around card than the GTS. I happen to agree. The only place that GTS is significantly better than Radeon is 16 bit color, which means less and less every day. Nobody I know plays in 16 bit color anymore unless they are playing an old game or have no choice. Then of course the Radeon has better image quality, better features, and better memory managment with HyperZ. And HyperZ is going to play an even bigger role as games get more complex, and the Radeon will not suffer near as big of performance hit as the GTS. Not to mention Radeon is younger than GTS, and should also see some more nice performance increases with tweaked drivers.

In the next generation of games, the Radeon's HyperZ and other features should help it outpace the GTS, especially considering it's already very close. Really, besides 16 bit and Win2k, most other advantages are clearly in the Radeon's corner. It's also widely believed that the only reason we are even seeing the Ultra is because the Radeon stole much of the GTS thunder, and it was a pure ego reaction on Nvidia's part, so they could still claim undisputed speed champ. I agree with that 100% myself. I realize this is about next generation cards but you made a point of mentioning the current generation too, and I believe your thoughts are incorrect about Radeon vs GTS. Remember too that I owned a GTS, and I am a Nvidia fan. But I returned the GTS, and now have an Ultra in one machine and the Radeon 64MB in the other. Yes I know it's crazy, but I couldn't decide so I upgraded my second machine and now have two gaming rigs. The Ultra is definately the top dog for speed, but the Radeon is better overall than the GTS which I returned. I also have several friends with GTS and Radeon and have spent a lot of time with both cards, and the Radeon is the better card IMO. But I am not saying anything bad about the GTS, and it's obviously a great card too.

Now, about the next generation. I think it will definately be between the NV20 / GeForce3 and Radeon-II / Radeon-II-MAXX. ATI has recently said there will be a MAXX version of Radeon-II so that could be very interesting. Af far as Matrox, I am eager to see what the G800 can do, and I would not count them out as a serious competitor. Then there is 3DFX. They have a very long way to go, but I personally think they have a shot of making a big comeback eventually, but when and how remains to be seen. They are clearly the underdog in this race.

Finally, it's important to note that cards are not judged by speed alone. And that MadOnion "Fastest Adaptors List" is based only on 16 bit, and really means very little to people who look at the complete picture. Many other factors decide if a card is a worthy purchase, and a solid all around product. The Voodoo5 is a good example of a card that does not place very high in many benchmarks, but offers good real world gaming performance. Just like now, the next generation will be no different. There will be no clear winner for everything, and no card will dominate in all areas. There will always be strengths and weaknesses, and different preferences for different types of gamers / people.

Since I have recently gone insane, and now have an Ultra in one machine and a Radeon64MB in the other, I will be skipping the next generation, and those two cards will easily allow me to do that. I may also be skipping a few meals. But if I had to say what will be the 2 top choices based on the current generation, and what we know so far about the next generation, I would say NV20 and Radeon-II will be the two top overall cards.

 

[Taz4158]

Sleepy Tim as usual sir you are the voice of reason. One SMALL correction: The Radeon MAXX has been shelved as the Radeon 2 will be out.

 

[SleepyTim]

Hiya Taz.

I'm talking about the Radeon-II-Maxx. In the recent interview from COMDEX, the head of ATI said there should be a Maxx version of Radeon-II. You are correct though Taz, they did cancel the Radeon-Maxx because the Radeon-II would be ready by then. But they are saying there will be a Maxx version of the Radeon-II. Should be interesting .

 

[kwango]

Hiya
I'm just curious about 3dfx. I have read over the past few months remarks that the chips that power their latest offerings (I think it called vsa-100 or something like that) is slightly underpowered but it does have the benefit of being scalable (in a multiprocessor sense). It just seems to me that with this scalable architecture in place, all they have to do is improve and optimise the basic chip in a similar way to what nVidia did when they moved from the geforce to a geforce2. Wouldnt this automatically give boards like the v5500/6000 a big boost in power.

I'm also eagerly awaiting news from Matrox about the G800 but it seems that we are going to be left in the dark about the ability of this chip for sometime to come. There was rumours of a multichip version of this board.

regards MD

 

[Taz4158]

Right you are Tim. My apologies.