Thoughts on McCain

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Setting aside my problems with Hillary (evil hack) or Obama (arch-Lib), lemme focus on what I like about McCain.

I like the fact that McCain has demonstrated a willingness to buck fellow Republicans and stray from GOP orthodoxy since the 80s. He's not my perfect conservative, but I have no use for political parties... I'm into ideas, and ideas thrive when free thinkers aren't slaves to their party. Look at McCains hero Teddy Roosevelt... they guy went third party and destroyed the Republican Taft's chances. I see a little of that ornery attitude in McCain.

The downside is free spirits are sometimes inconsistent... but that's the price I'll pay for individualism. He has a reputation for doing what he thinks is right, regardless of his political interest or self-interest, which is the kind of politician I can actually respect. I guess it boils down to what you like in a leader... a calculating, poll-driven tool, or someone who's sincere. His stance on Iraq imperils his candidacy, as did his off the cuff comments downplaying his economic expertise.

But his ability to admit errors more than most is refreshing, as is his willingness to go down on principle. So even though certain policy issues I dislike, I think the man himself has integrity.

He is definitely the most complicated candidate. He can make blistering critiques of religious conservative leadership and deliver a commencement address at Falwell's Liberty University. Anyone who's familiar with McCain knows this is not hypocrisy in the slightest... he doesn't sacrifice his ideas, rather, he goes into the lions den and reaches for common ground... something he has always done politically. He's never had any trouble trying to work on a bipartisan basis.

His military background has a lot to do with his political independence. He was not a career politician, activist, or rise as part of the movement. His speeches are often nonpartisan, talking about America, duty, honor, courage, and service. Most people of military backgrounds have a country-first, political party-second type of approach. They're going to sound a little different than your average politician.

And that sounds pretty good to me right now.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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But his ability to admit errors more than most is refreshing, as is his willingness to go down on principle

I don't want to see my country go down on one man's principles. We already had that under Bush.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
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You gotta admit, whether you agree or not, it's mighty refreshing to hear someone talk about what they like in their candidate instead of what they don't like in the opposition. :)

I won't try to argue with you. Most of the reasons you've expressed are the same reasons Senator McCain is my second choice.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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He is an outstanding choice - for Republicans ..
.. their best in many years as a candidate, since Ronnie! - even better!!
--However, my primary objection is his willingness to continue Bush's War indefinitely
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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McCain has been good at admitting errors, although they usually come after he's been outed (Keating Five) or decades later (MLK holiday). The guy won't admit that Iraq is a clusterfuck, but I guess when he does you'll like him a whole lot more, right:roll:
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Dari
McCain has been good at admitting errors, although they usually come after he's been outed (Keating Five) or decades later (MLK holiday). The guy won't admit that Iraq is a clusterfuck, but I guess when he does you'll like him a whole lot more, right:roll:

Well McCain has been a critic of how OIF has been executed... as have I.

What do you propose... 100% pull out next week?
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Originally posted by: Dari
McCain has been good at admitting errors, although they usually come after he's been outed (Keating Five) or decades later (MLK holiday). The guy won't admit that Iraq is a clusterfuck, but I guess when he does you'll like him a whole lot more, right:roll:

He can't admit it .. he is constrained by his party and their planning
-by then it will be way too late ... another trillion down the tubes .. every 2 years .. how long can America AFFORD Bush/McCain's War?

He would make a Great President in Good Economic times with No War Draining US
- unfortunately that is not the reality and i cannot in good conscience vote for him
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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In terms of the rest of the GOP field in 08, McCain is certainly the best of a very bad lot IMHO. And in some ways has some admirable principles I can agree with. But has many ideologies and core beliefs I can't agree with. I cannot dislike him as person, I think he is mainly about as honest as the other contenders, but overall, I think he will take our country in the wrong direction. And sad to say, McCain is now far too old to run for POTUS now.

But even then, my opinion matters little, the greater herd will decide, McCain may become POTUS or remain in the Senate. And I think McCain's greatest role will be to rebuild the GOP into the great party it used to be before GWB&co screwed it up almost beyond all hope of repair.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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after seeing what the republicans were able to do, I doubt I'll ever vote for a single party government ever again.

when we're basically guaranteed that the dems are going to keep or increase their majorities in congress, I'm much more inclined to vote for a president who will be checked and forced to compromise by congressional opposition than a president who's going to have two chambers of yes men to rubber stamp whatever hair brained idea he comes up with.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Dari
McCain has been good at admitting errors, although they usually come after he's been outed (Keating Five) or decades later (MLK holiday). The guy won't admit that Iraq is a clusterfuck, but I guess when he does you'll like him a whole lot more, right:roll:

Well McCain has been a critic of how OIF has been executed... as have I.

What do you propose... 100% pull out next week?

That is such a cop out.. he has only been a critic so he can take no blame for the past 7 years while at the same time promoting a continuance of policy. He only criticizes the administration when all evidence and public opinion points to them having fumbled. Even then he only criticized the execution and not the ideology.

Oakland traded Mark McGwire to St. Louis in 1997 for a couple of prospects that went nowhere. An analogy might be that, as an Oakland executive, McCain to this day supports the trade but thinks they should've got some different prospects. Fact is they still fucked up and gave away McGwire.

edit: and your pull-out comment is a straw man
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: loki8481
after seeing what the republicans were able to do, I doubt I'll ever vote for a single party government ever again.

when we're basically guaranteed that the dems are going to keep or increase their majorities in congress, I'm much more inclined to vote for a president who will be checked and forced to compromise by congressional opposition than a president who's going to have two chambers of yes men to rubber stamp whatever hair brained idea he comes up with.

It sounds kinda silly at first but I agree that opposing branches makes for better government... and sort of forces each side to stay sharp.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Dari
McCain has been good at admitting errors, although they usually come after he's been outed (Keating Five) or decades later (MLK holiday). The guy won't admit that Iraq is a clusterfuck, but I guess when he does you'll like him a whole lot more, right:roll:

Well McCain has been a critic of how OIF has been executed... as have I.

What do you propose... 100% pull out next week?

No, but you seem to miss the point. Going into Iraq was based on lies and a grab for oil. Everyone knows that. Since McCain is such an honest soul, as you imply, why can't he see it for what it is? Or is he simply being a good obedient soldier by supporting this war to no end? I wonder if he ever thinks WHY nations go to war rather than fighting for the sake of fighting.

The truth is McCain probably wants from the Iraq War what he couldn't get from the Vietnam War: victory. You even heard him admit as much today during the Petraeus/Crocker Show. He said that success is within reach. You know who else said something similar? Nixon, right before we fled Vietnam.

I think McCain, like Bush, is a good man. But I don't think either would make good presidents. Apologizing for making bad decisions is nice but I'm not a very forgiving person.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Dari
McCain has been good at admitting errors, although they usually come after he's been outed (Keating Five) or decades later (MLK holiday). The guy won't admit that Iraq is a clusterfuck, but I guess when he does you'll like him a whole lot more, right:roll:

Well McCain has been a critic of how OIF has been executed... as have I.

What do you propose... 100% pull out next week?

That is such a cop out.. he has only been a critic so he can take no blame for the past 7 years while at the same time promoting a continuance of policy. He only criticizes the administration when all evidence and public opinion points to them having fumbled. Even then he only criticized the execution and not the ideology.

If you say so.

I didn't oppose going in but I do have major issues with how things were conducted. So... it's not a cop out for me because McCain has a similar attitude (although perhaps not as strongly). In any case, you disagree with us... thanks for sharing that.

 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Dari

No, but you seem to miss the point. Going into Iraq was based on lies and a grab for oil. Everyone knows that.

Thanks for playing...

 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Dari

No, but you seem to miss the point. Going into Iraq was based on lies and a grab for oil. Everyone knows that.

Thanks for playing...

I see that this must be a game to you. Oh yeah, we went into Iraq because of their WMDs and ties to Al Qaeda:roll:. I was for this war just like you but I woke up to the reality of being fed shit. You must enjoy eating shit.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
McCain doesn't have a chance. It will be either Hitlery or Osama. I hope the one that does get elected supports some kind of internet censorship because I can't watch shit like that anymore.

i wish i could agree with your 'hopeful' assessment - but i think disunity and a dirty campaign may win for the Reps after all - so you might get "lucky".

Finally, i have "self-censorship" - a 56K connection will do that for you :p
- cliffs, please

i did oppose going in - from before the Big Inning i warned that this is what Bush would do if he was elected - and i was SURE he was going to war long before he made those silly excuses for War and embarrassed Powell in front of the UN and the Rest of the World

that is why OT was such a mess and we created P&N
-history lesson ATF 101
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I can only ask Dari for a clarification on---I think McCain, like Bush, is a good man.

I do not disagree that McCain may be a basic good man. I can even buy the idea that George H. Bush was basically a good man in some ways.

But George W. Bush has been and is a totally rotten human being and not a very smart one at that. And his worst ability was to attract totally moral degenerates making his presidency far more disastrous than he had an ability to make it all by himself. And now has seemingly taken a pride in having power without a single concern towards having any positive results.

So Dari, which Bush do you speak of?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
I can only ask Dari for a clarification on---I think McCain, like Bush, is a good man.

I do not disagree that McCain may be a basic good man. I can even buy the idea that George H. Bush was basically a good man in some ways.

But George W. Bush has been and is a totally rotten human being and not a very smart one at that. And his worst ability was to attract totally moral degenerates making his presidency far more disastrous than he had an ability to make it all by himself. And now has seemingly taken a pride in having power without a single concern towards having any positive results.

So Dari, which Bush do you speak of?

I meant good on a personal note. I met him back in 1999 in Austin.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
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I find the Op's opinion refreshing and more truthful, as it will be the mindset of our current "republican" supporters of Obama, come election time.

McCain will feed into that "Daddy" image that those G.O.P.er's so crave.... They can't turn away that call....

/Daddy! Daddy! Daddy is right - and everyone else is so wrong....
 

Rockinacoustic

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2006
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Originally posted by: Farang
But his ability to admit errors more than most is refreshing, as is his willingness to go down on principle

I don't want to see my country go down on one man's principles. We already had that under Bush.

John McCain doesn't have Dick Cheney's hand up his ass puppeteering him like Bush does.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
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Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: Farang
But his ability to admit errors more than most is refreshing, as is his willingness to go down on principle

I don't want to see my country go down on one man's principles. We already had that under Bush.

John McCain doesn't have Dick Cheney's hand up his ass puppeteering him like Bush does.

It looks like Lieberman has his hand up McCain's ass.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: Farang
But his ability to admit errors more than most is refreshing, as is his willingness to go down on principle

I don't want to see my country go down on one man's principles. We already had that under Bush.

John McCain doesn't have Dick Cheney's hand up his ass puppeteering him like Bush does.

It looks like Lieberman has his hand up McCain's ass.

at least he's more sober than the Ted Kennedy hand that's up Obama's ass.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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i think there just might be group-inspired manual-anal fixation going on .. and it really stinks imho :p

rose.gif



McCain is perfect as President !!


.... for the last Century
:)