Thoughts on James Watson (DNA structure co-discoverer) controversial statements?

DCal430

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Feb 12, 2011
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From Wikipedia

Watson has often expressed provocative concepts and disapproving opinion of others seemingly within the realm of genetic research.
Watson has repeatedly supported genetic screening and genetic engineering in public lectures and interviews, arguing that stupidity is a disease and the "really stupid" bottom 10% of people should be cured.[53] He has also suggested that beauty could be genetically engineered, saying "People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great."[53]
He has been quoted in The Sunday Telegraph as stating: "If you could find the gene which determines sexuality and a woman decides she doesn't want a homosexual child, well, let her."[54] The biologist Richard Dawkins wrote a letter to The Independent claiming that Watson's position was misrepresented by The Sunday Telegraph article, and that Watson would equally consider the possibility of having a heterosexual child to be just as valid as any other reason for abortion, to emphasise that Watson is in favor of allowing choice.[55]
On the issue of obesity, Watson has also been quoted as saying: "Whenever you interview fat people, you feel bad, because you know you're not going to hire them."[56]
Watson also had quite a few disagreements with Craig Venter regarding his use of EST fragments while Venter worked at NIH. Venter went on to found Celera genomics and continued his feud with Watson. Watson was even quoted as calling Venter "Hitler".[57]
While speaking at a conference in 2000, Watson had suggested a link between skin color and sex drive, hypothesizing that dark-skinned people have stronger libidos.[56][58] His lecture, complete with slides of bikini-clad women, argued that extracts of melanin – which gives skin its color – had been found to boost subjects' sex drive. "That's why you have Latin lovers," he said, according to people who attended the lecture. "You've never heard of an English lover. Only an English Patient."[59]
On October 25, 2007, Watson was compelled to retire as chancellor of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on New York's Long Island and from its board of directors, after he had been quoted in The Times the previous week as saying "[I am] inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours—whereas all the testing says not really."[60]


In early October 2007, Watson was about to embark on a UK book tour to promote the memoir. He was interviewed by Charlotte Hunt-Grubbe at CSHL. In 1996 she had been a student there in a program in which Watson recruited students to live at his family home and work at CSHL for a year. Hunt-Grubbe had gone on to work for the Sunday Times Magazine; she was selected for the interview as she was one of the few women to have been mentored by him.
Hunt-Grubbe broached the subject of race and intelligence. Watson did not say in his memoir that race was a factor in his hypothesis of divergence of intellect between geographically isolated populations. The following is a transcript of that part of the interview: 'He says that he is “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really”, and I know that this “hot potato” is going to be difficult to address. His hope is that everyone is equal, but he counters that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”. He says that you should not discriminate on the basis of colour, because “there are many people of colour who are very talented, but don’t promote them when they haven’t succeeded at the lower level”. He writes that “there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so”'.[70] Though other publications noted that the paper had '[kept] the profile sympathetic and place[d] the comments at the end of the piece',[71] the article was a public relations disaster for Watson. The Sunday Times Magazine editor Cathy Galvin noted, "It was important the reader understood Charlotte's relationship with Watson and her regard for him before exploring the explosive and unscientific territory of his opinions and history of statements about women, race, and abortion which have stirred so much controversy in the past."[71]
Watson's comments drew attention and criticism in the UK. Watson said his intention was to promote science not racism, but some of the UK venues canceled his appearances.[72] Watson canceled the rest of his tour.[73][74][75][76][77][78]
Because of the public controversy, on October 18 the Board of Trustees at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory suspended Watson's administrative responsibilities. On October 19, Watson issued an apology; on October 25, he resigned from his position as chancellor.[79][80][81][82][83][84][85] In 2008, Watson was appointed chancellor emeritus of CSHL.[86] As of 2009, he continues to advise and guide project work at the laboratory.[87] In a 2008 BBC documentary, Watson said: "I have never thought of myself as a racist. I don't see myself as a racist. I am mortified by it. It was the worst thing in my life."[88]

What are your thoughts on this mans controversial statements?
 
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T9D

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2001
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Sounds like he just speaks his mind without worry of PC crap. He's free to speaks his thoughts.
 

DCal430

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Feb 12, 2011
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Sounds like he just speaks his mind without worry of PC crap. He's free to speaks his thoughts.

Yes he is free to speak his minds, but his comments have cost him his job, and the respect of many of his colleagues,
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
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Sounds like a personal problem.

How is it a personal problem, he was forced to resigned, deemed unfit to educate after his interview was publish with his racist comments of blacks being inferior to whites.
 

KLin

Lifer
Feb 29, 2000
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How is it a personal problem, he was forced to resigned, deemed unfit to educate after his interview was publish with his racist comments of blacks being inferior to whites.

Had he kept his opinions to himself, perhaps he wouldn't have been blacklisted.
 

madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
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How is it a personal problem, he was forced to resigned, deemed unfit to educate after his interview was publish with his racist comments of blacks being inferior to whites.

I think it's PC run amuck if it's true and we choose to ignore IQ differences to the detriment of sound policy. Blacks are more likely to develop sickle cell, but it would be idiotic to ignore this genetic difference in the name of PC equality when deciding health policy.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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I think it's PC run amuck if it's true and we choose to ignore IQ differences to the detriment of sound policy. Blacks are more likely to develop sickle cell, but it would be idiotic to ignore this genetic difference in the name of PC equality when deciding health policy.

I think the consensus has been that whatever differences there are between us, any notion of superiority (true or not true) has been the most dangerous idea ever in human history. Even assuming he is right, being PC is not just a novelty. There are real implications to grading groups of people
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
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everyone said Copernicus was crazy too, and shunned him from their groups. I think he has a point. all the stupid people are reproducing at a faster rate then the smart people. what do you think will happen?
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
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Any relation to Emma Watson?

If so then I might be interested but that's about it.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
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In my experience there's a direct correlation to how much people complain about overt PC society and their understanding (or rather lack thereof) of science.

A smart person who understands science, like James Watson, is usually against political correctness.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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I trust him more than a bunch of PC idiots. People are afraid of the truth.

This. they want to avoid the truth because it's too painful for their puny minds. Fantasy is much more pleasant. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss.

The problem is: You can't fix something you're in denial about.
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
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I think Watson is a really smart person and his comments have merit, especially since they are in his realm of expertise. The part about racial differences though is dangerous territory... even if true you have to think about the consequences it would have for a large portion of the population. I'm glad there's people who just speak their minds though.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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everyone said Copernicus was crazy too, and shunned him from their groups. I think he has a point. all the stupid people are reproducing at a faster rate then the smart people. what do you think will happen?

Sir Isaac Newton warned fellow scientists to be careful when talking to laypersons as some tend to think you're crazy. I've seen this happen to me personally. I thought it was kind of funny actually.

I babbled some physics, mostly about the curvature of spacetime. I felt like someone centuries ago who knew the earth wasn't flat while the masses called him crazy. I did it for the lulz. Funny thing is with the internet all they have to do is look it up. If they can understand it.
 

OinkBoink

Senior member
Nov 25, 2003
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If scientific testing shows that the average person of one race has a lower IQ (of course, we could go into a debate about IQ tests and their accuracy and all that) than the average person of another race, people of either race having a problem with it is just a case of them not being able to accept reality. They want the world to work in a certain way (perhaps, in this case, they want a sense of equality to exist among people), but in reality it doesn't. Deep down, they can't accept that. Such people are dangerous. People who truly create change accept the way nature works. They then use the knowledge of how nature works to create the change that they want to see.

Also, the key word here is 'AVERAGE'. Just because the average IQ scores of races differ, doesn't mean you can't have highly intelligent and talented people from races which have a lower average IQ score.

Now, I'm not sure how scientific and rigorous the tests conducted were, but I've heard several scientists talk about race-IQ differences, which probabilistically, lends some credibility to those assertions.
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
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If scientific testing shows that the average person of one race has a lower IQ (of course, we could go into a debate about IQ tests and their accuracy and all that) than the average person of another race, people of either race having a problem with it is just a case of them not being able to accept reality. They want the world to work in a certain way (perhaps, in this case, they want a sense of equality to exist among people), but in reality it doesn't. Deep down, they can't accept that. Such people are dangerous. People who truly create change accept the way nature works. They then use the knowledge of how nature works to create the change that they want to see.

Also, the key word here is 'AVERAGE'. Just because the average IQ scores of races differ, doesn't mean you can't have highly intelligent and talented people from races which have a lower average IQ score.

Now, I'm not sure how scientific and rigorous the tests conducted were, but I've heard several scientists talk about race-IQ differences, which probabilistically, lends some credibility to those assertions.

This would be fine if the average person were rational enough to use such information constructively. Instead, the average person would simply apply the generalization to all individuals of a group, and use it as a basis for discrimination. I don't believe all people are equal, but it is a useful lie to keep society in order, until we have the ability to truly correct for individual shortcomings anyway.
 

mafia

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2008
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If scientific testing shows that the average person of one race has a lower IQ (of course, we could go into a debate about IQ tests and their accuracy and all that) than the average person of another race, people of either race having a problem with it is just a case of them not being able to accept reality. They want the world to work in a certain way (perhaps, in this case, they want a sense of equality to exist among people), but in reality it doesn't. Deep down, they can't accept that. Such people are dangerous. People who truly create change accept the way nature works. They then use the knowledge of how nature works to create the change that they want to see.

Also, the key word here is 'AVERAGE'. Just because the average IQ scores of races differ, doesn't mean you can't have highly intelligent and talented people from races which have a lower average IQ score.

Now, I'm not sure how scientific and rigorous the tests conducted were, but I've heard several scientists talk about race-IQ differences, which probabilistically, lends some credibility to those assertions.

So Hitler was.... right?
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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OinkBoink, I agree with a lot of that. I'd like to add this: There are some things, perhaps a LOT of things, IQ can't measure.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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A smart person who understands science, like James Watson, is usually against political correctness.

Hardly. I'd say most scientists are closer to Carl Sagan than this guy. They don't even say anything about political correctness because only fucking idiots even discuss that. They discuss the actual topic and not vague bullshit.