Those crazy Japanese are at it again

[5150Joker]

Just caught this article on Yahoo that talks about the reawakening of Japanese nationalism and how much of it is very right-wing with undertones of ethnic hatred towards Chinese and S. Koreans. It also mentions how the people that are taking part in this rising right-wing nationalism have some wacky conspiracy theories of the US controlling their businesses and quelling anti-US sentiment by sending over the beatles (lol). So what do you guys think, will Japan continue on a path of nationalism that includes militarism and a renewed hate for Chinese and Koreans?

 

[techs]

I posted a thread awhile back about how stupid it was that people in the U.S. were advocating Japan develope nukes so it could take on the burden of protecting Asia and the U.S. could save some money.
Japan is still a morally dysfunctional society that has never faced what it did in WW2. Keeping Japan away from nukes is a good thing for the world.

 

[sdifox]

Not exactly unexpected. With the modernization of China well under way, they have to really worry about the dragon. Korea is not much of a threat to them since they are busy fighting themselves. However, if China decides to lend a big hand to DPRK and make that final push to get rid of American influence in Korea, Japan is toast, along with Taiwan. There will be no half measures.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: sdifox
Not exactly unexpected. With the modernization of China well under way, they have to really worry about the dragon. Korea is not much of a threat to them since they are busy fighting themselves. However, if China decides to lend a big hand to DPRK and make that final push to get rid of American influence in Korea, Japan is toast, along with Taiwan. There will be no half measures.

China knows it can use NK to irritate the US but they know it can only be pushed so far. Since SK, Japan, and arguably Taiwan are under the strategic protection of the US the risk far outweighs any reward.

If anyone should be worried it's the Russians who are sitting on a ton of natural resources and territory just to China's north. That's the real prize. In Russia's current state I seriously doubt they could mount sufficent conventional resistance to repulse a Chinese attack and I wonder how much of their nuclear deterrant is still operational.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: sdifox
Not exactly unexpected. With the modernization of China well under way, they have to really worry about the dragon. Korea is not much of a threat to them since they are busy fighting themselves. However, if China decides to lend a big hand to DPRK and make that final push to get rid of American influence in Korea, Japan is toast, along with Taiwan. There will be no half measures.

China knows it can use NK to irritate the US but they know it can only be pushed so far. Since SK, Japan, and arguably Taiwan are under the strategic protection of the US the risk far outweighs any reward.

If anyone should be worried it's the Russians who are sitting on a ton of natural resources and territory just to China's north. That's the real prize. In Russia's current state I seriously doubt they could mount sufficent conventional resistance to repulse a Chinese attack and I wonder how much of their nuclear deterrant is still operational.

looks like someone just read The_Bear_And_The_Dragon

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: K1052
China knows it can use NK to irritate the US but they know it can only be pushed so far. Since SK, Japan, and arguably Taiwan are under the strategic protection of the US the risk far outweighs any reward.

If anyone should be worried it's the Russians who are sitting on a ton of natural resources and territory just to China's north. That's the real prize. In Russia's current state I seriously doubt they could mount sufficent conventional resistance to repulse a Chinese attack and I wonder how much of their nuclear deterrant is still operational.

looks like someone just read The_Bear_And_The_Dragon

lol. Of course to be fair, it's not like Clancy hasn't (sort of) accurately predicted world events in the past. I can very vaguely see a potential skirmish over those resources 50-100 years hence.

More on topic, nationalism doesn't have to mean anti-foreigner sentiment. I'm largely in favour of Japan rearming because frankly, it's about time they started carrying their own weight in international affairs. Like Germany, Japan's officer core has it drilled into them that their first duty is to the nation, not necessarily their superior officers - each order must be considered for its moral content. I don't think we'll see a repeat of history here.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: K1052
Since SK, Japan, and arguably Taiwan are under the strategic protection of the US the risk far outweighs any reward.

Japan and Taiwan don't have any oil.

 

[SuperFungus]

The japanese still have war museums which claim they did nothing wrong in WWII. How could they have, they where welcomed as liberators in China right? I live in Japan and maybe there isn't a ton of misinformation per say; just a general lack of information. The average japanese citizen doesn't know anything about the atrocities they committed in WWII, and if you tell them they prefer not to listen, saying "oh thats just every war" and "the US did the exact same thing".

 

[Gigantopithecus]

'Race'/national relationships in Asia make black/white American relationships look entirely rosy, heh. As has been said already, the Japanese have never really owned up to their actions during WWII (which were arguably worse than anything the Nazis did), and that rankles the rest of Asia. I don't know any Jews who hate Germany; I know a lot of South Koreans & Chinese who hate the Japanese. The contrast between how Germans discuss WWII and how Japanese discuss WWII is startling.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: techs
I posted a thread awhile back about how stupid it was that people in the U.S. were advocating Japan develope nukes so it could take on the burden of protecting Asia and the U.S. could save some money.
Japan is still a morally dysfunctional society that has never faced what it did in WW2. Keeping Japan away from nukes is a good thing for the world.

By that standard, America shouldn't have nukes because of our own crazed out nationalists (aka Bush and their supporters). MAAD keeps nations from using their nukes.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: sdifox
Not exactly unexpected. With the modernization of China well under way, they have to really worry about the dragon. Korea is not much of a threat to them since they are busy fighting themselves. However, if China decides to lend a big hand to DPRK and make that final push to get rid of American influence in Korea, Japan is toast, along with Taiwan. There will be no half measures.

China knows it can use NK to irritate the US but they know it can only be pushed so far. Since SK, Japan, and arguably Taiwan are under the strategic protection of the US the risk far outweighs any reward.

If anyone should be worried it's the Russians who are sitting on a ton of natural resources and territory just to China's north. That's the real prize. In Russia's current state I seriously doubt they could mount sufficent conventional resistance to repulse a Chinese attack and I wonder how much of their nuclear deterrant is still operational.

looks like someone just read The_Bear_And_The_Dragon

Haha...years ago. It is still the scenario that makes the most sense to me if China was going to start a war over something. As their economy continues to grow and they build up China's natural resources will be expended at an ever increasing rate. The only options are to buy or take what they need.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: SuperFungus
The japanese still have war museums which claim they did nothing wrong in WWII. How could they have, they where welcomed as liberators in China right? I live in Japan and maybe there isn't a ton of misinformation per say; just a general lack of information. The average japanese citizen doesn't know anything about the atrocities they committed in WWII, and if you tell them they prefer not to listen, saying "oh thats just every war" and "the US did the exact same thing".

That opinion just shows how much more they know about American War conduct then you do.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: SuperFungus
The japanese still have war museums which claim they did nothing wrong in WWII. How could they have, they where welcomed as liberators in China right? I live in Japan and maybe there isn't a ton of misinformation per say; just a general lack of information. The average japanese citizen doesn't know anything about the atrocities they committed in WWII, and if you tell them they prefer not to listen, saying "oh thats just every war" and "the US did the exact same thing".

That opinion just shows how much more they know about American War conduct then you do.

:roll:

 

[Aimster]

Toyota built tank
Mitsubishi given funding to build an aircraft to rival the U.S F-35.

 

[ProfJohn]

I find the thread title offensive.

Post a thead about "crazy" Democrats or Republicans and see what happenes.

What is it about their recent behavior that makes them "crazy"?

And BTW how many Japanese people have you meet in your life?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I find the thread title offensive.

Post a thead about "crazy" Democrats or Republicans and see what happenes.

What is it about their recent behavior that makes them "crazy"?

And BTW how many Japanese people have you meet in your life?

BOO HOOO

grow some thicker skin.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: K1052
China knows it can use NK to irritate the US but they know it can only be pushed so far. Since SK, Japan, and arguably Taiwan are under the strategic protection of the US the risk far outweighs any reward.

If anyone should be worried it's the Russians who are sitting on a ton of natural resources and territory just to China's north. That's the real prize. In Russia's current state I seriously doubt they could mount sufficent conventional resistance to repulse a Chinese attack and I wonder how much of their nuclear deterrant is still operational.

looks like someone just read The_Bear_And_The_Dragon

lol. Of course to be fair, it's not like Clancy hasn't (sort of) accurately predicted world events in the past. I can very vaguely see a potential skirmish over those resources 50-100 years hence.

More on topic, nationalism doesn't have to mean anti-foreigner sentiment. I'm largely in favour of Japan rearming because frankly, it's about time they started carrying their own weight in international affairs. Like Germany, Japan's officer core has it drilled into them that their first duty is to the nation, not necessarily their superior officers - each order must be considered for its moral content. I don't think we'll see a repeat of history here.

How do you see nationalism? I see it as almost blind love for one's nation...which is wrong and dangerous. Patriotism is one that I see as very healthy because it involves simply loving your nation..

interestingly enough I did a search on the words and this is what I got:
patriotism: Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
nationalism: Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it, The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other, The aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination, The doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals

I guess it depends how we define as nationalism, but I would be vary of any forms that advocate one's national culture and interests are superior to others simply because you are {insert nationality here}

I'm in favor of Japan rearming only to a limit : that it stays defensive. Of course I don't make any real decisions, and its my opinion only But if they got a nuke or two to counter China...whatever that is fine the nuke acts as a counter weight and nothing more. But massive militarization is not desirable for anyone including the Japanese: Countries with a lot of weapons will want to use them...period.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: K1052
China knows it can use NK to irritate the US but they know it can only be pushed so far. Since SK, Japan, and arguably Taiwan are under the strategic protection of the US the risk far outweighs any reward.

If anyone should be worried it's the Russians who are sitting on a ton of natural resources and territory just to China's north. That's the real prize. In Russia's current state I seriously doubt they could mount sufficent conventional resistance to repulse a Chinese attack and I wonder how much of their nuclear deterrant is still operational.

looks like someone just read The_Bear_And_The_Dragon

lol. Of course to be fair, it's not like Clancy hasn't (sort of) accurately predicted world events in the past. I can very vaguely see a potential skirmish over those resources 50-100 years hence.

More on topic, nationalism doesn't have to mean anti-foreigner sentiment. I'm largely in favour of Japan rearming because frankly, it's about time they started carrying their own weight in international affairs. Like Germany, Japan's officer core has it drilled into them that their first duty is to the nation, not necessarily their superior officers - each order must be considered for its moral content. I don't think we'll see a repeat of history here.

How do you see nationalism? I see it as almost blind love for one's nation...which is wrong and dangerous. Patriotism is one that I see as very healthy because it involves simply loving your nation..

interestingly enough I did a search on the words and this is what I got:
patriotism: Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
nationalism: Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it, The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other, The aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination, The doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals

I guess it depends how we define as nationalism, but I would be vary of any forms that advocate one's national culture and interests are superior to others simply because you are {insert nationality here}

I'm in favor of Japan rearming only to a limit : that it stays defensive. Of course I don't make any real decisions, and its my opinion only But if they got a nuke or two to counter China...whatever that is fine the nuke acts as a counter weight and nothing more. But massive militarization is not desirable for anyone including the Japanese: Countries with a lot of weapons will want to use them...period.

yep a very one sided thread......ohh I forgot this is P&N......lol

 

[earthman]

It's interesting how everybody wants to couch things in terms of military solutions/situations, when in fact military ventures over the last few decades have been largely failures (Vietnam, Iraq, Russians in Afghanistan and Chechnya). Far from worrying about whether China will invade Russia to get oil or gas (not likely, the Russian nuclear arsenal is definitely in working order), the concern should be whether they will work together to our disadvantage. As middle east oil becomes more expensive and unreliable, China, Korea, and Japan will naturally turn to Russia and the far east to buy resources, and buy they will, since they have all our money in the form of trade deficits and the debt they own. Japan is facing a steep decline in population over the next 50 years which puts them in a poor position for becoming a military superpower or interventionist. They are going to have enough trouble keeping their finances in order, and the way to do it is with economics, not war. War is expensive and hurts trade, why would countries that depend on trade and foreign exchange support war? The fact is, they don't. Interesting how everyone is convinced China is such a threat, when historically they have not been an invader at all. (Compare their history to the US) Also interesting how Japan is criticized again and again for not owning up to it's war crimes...when has this country ever owned up to the atrocities against Native Americans or the millions of Africans kidnapped and brought here as slaves? How about all the Japanese people who were stripped of their property and locked in camps in WWII? How many Americans know all that much about these subjects? Maybe we should deal with our own skeletons in the closet before we drag out everybody elses.

 

[Craig234]

The average japanese citizen doesn't know anything about the atrocities they committed in WWII, and if you tell them they prefer not to listen, saying "oh thats just every war" and "the US did the exact same thing".

It's notable how the same bad logic that thinks "someone else did our wrong too" is an answer to a moral problem exists across cultures in the right wing of each.

t's interesting how everybody wants to couch things in terms of military solutions/situations, when in fact military ventures over the last few decades have been largely failures (Vietnam, Iraq, Russians in Afghanistan and Chechnya). Far from worrying about whether China will invade Russia to get oil or gas (not likely, the Russian nuclear arsenal is definitely in working order), the concern should be whether they will work together to our disadvantage. As middle east oil becomes more expensive and unreliable, China, Korea, and Japan will naturally turn to Russia and the far east to buy resources, and buy they will, since they have all our money in the form of trade deficits and the debt they own. Japan is facing a steep decline in population over the next 50 years which puts them in a poor position for becoming a military superpower or interventionist. They are going to have enough trouble keeping their finances in order, and the way to do it is with economics, not war. War is expensive and hurts trade, why would countries that depend on trade and foreign exchange support war? The fact is, they don't. Interesting how everyone is convinced China is such a threat, when historically they have not been an invader at all. (Compare their history to the US) Also interesting how Japan is criticized again and again for not owning up to it's war crimes... How many Americans know all that much about these subjects? Maybe we should deal with our own skeletons in the closet before we drag out everybody elses.

Well said, but I'd replace the omitted examples with ones like Viet Nam where we killed millions of people for misguided reasons the American people still don't understand, and worse, don't care about anymore mostly. I suspect the Asians remember.

We have taken some steps on other issues - officially apologizing and providing token relief to the interned Japanese, broadly recognizing that slavery was wrong (but little for native Americans), but my gosh, we just launched an illegal, aggressive war 4 years ago and haven't recognized the wrong of that yet.

We've supported imbalanced policies against the Palastenians for decades, tried to overthrow an elected leader in Venezuela four years ago, spent millions trying to control who got elected in Nicaragua a few months ago, and on and on.

And we have too many idiots who can say no more to the problems than "you're blaming America first". These are the same types who led Japan to war 65 years ago and keep Japan from learning from her crimes in WWII even now. In contrast, the Germans made real efforts to acknoweldge their actions and try to fix the underlying cause.

Japan is in for some interesting times, because we've propped up their economy following WWII to have them as an alternative power in Asia to China, but now that we're handing all our money to China and are so greatly in debt, things are going to change.

Indeed, the question arises, was our victory in the cold war over the USSR the war, or a battle since we are heading towards bad times relative to China? Perhaps from their view, first the great crash of the USSR, then the US, was the road to victory?

 

[NTB]

The beatles - as in the "we're more popular than Jesus" beatles? lol

Nate

 

[senseamp]

Lol, if they think WW2 was a splendid war, and want to return to the pure virtues of medieval Japan, they'll be happy to know that our nukes are about 100-1000 times more splendid than they were in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so we can return them to medieval ages in no time.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: SuperFungus
The japanese still have war museums which claim they did nothing wrong in WWII. How could they have, they where welcomed as liberators in China right? I live in Japan and maybe there isn't a ton of misinformation per say; just a general lack of information. The average japanese citizen doesn't know anything about the atrocities they committed in WWII, and if you tell them they prefer not to listen, saying "oh thats just every war" and "the US did the exact same thing".

That opinion just shows how much more they know about American War conduct then you do.

america as never committed anything on the scale of what japan did to china and korea. Not even close.

 

[Rangoric]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: SuperFungus
The japanese still have war museums which claim they did nothing wrong in WWII. How could they have, they where welcomed as liberators in China right? I live in Japan and maybe there isn't a ton of misinformation per say; just a general lack of information. The average japanese citizen doesn't know anything about the atrocities they committed in WWII, and if you tell them they prefer not to listen, saying "oh thats just every war" and "the US did the exact same thing".

That opinion just shows how much more they know about American War conduct then you do.

america as never committed anything on the scale of what japan did to china and korea. Not even close.

See what bugs me is that you have to say it this way.

I happen to think that the imprisonment of Americans (yes some of the "Japanese" imprisioned during WWII had never even set foot in Japan) was horrendous.

I would much rather be able to say that "America never committed anything like that" as opposed to having to say "Hey you where way more evil then us".

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Rangoric

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: SuperFungus
The japanese still have war museums which claim they did nothing wrong in WWII. How could they have, they where welcomed as liberators in China right? I live in Japan and maybe there isn't a ton of misinformation per say; just a general lack of information. The average japanese citizen doesn't know anything about the atrocities they committed in WWII, and if you tell them they prefer not to listen, saying "oh thats just every war" and "the US did the exact same thing".

That opinion just shows how much more they know about American War conduct then you do.

america as never committed anything on the scale of what japan did to china and korea. Not even close.

See what bugs me is that you have to say it this way.

I happen to think that the imprisonment of Americans (yes some of the "Japanese" imprisioned during WWII had never even set foot in Japan) was horrendous.

I would much rather be able to say that "America never committed anything like that" as opposed to having to say "Hey you where way more evil then us".

I think there are a lot more things we could worry about then Japan.