This Woman Has the Solution to the War on Terrorism.

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,571
4
81
Here is a powerful and amazing statement defending secular humanism on Al Jazeera television . The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from Los Angeles. I would suggest watching it ASAP because I dont know how long the link will be active.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

For a transcript of the appearance (well worth the read even if you do have Windows Media Player), check out this link:

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1050


EDIT:
Press ALT+Enter in Windows Media Player to view the text in full screen for easier reading.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,785
6,187
126
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.

Damn. That is middle age lingo. Heretic? WTF?
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
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71
don't have time to watch at the moment but she was posted a few weeks ago as I recall is this a different interview?

You can see why she is in LA
that outspoken would not play in the M. E.
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,888
10
81
She tells it like it is, unfortunatly people will not listen because she says she beleives in nothing. :(
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,571
4
81
Originally posted by: senseamp
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.

Damn. That is middle age lingo. Heretic? WTF?

http://www.answers.com/heretic&r=67
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: Amplifier
Christians weren't that bad in the middle ages... were we?:brokenheart:

You guys were worse. As bad as a Muslim extremists are now, Christians had the advantage of having pretty much total control over the world powers at the time. Muslim extremists can fly planes into buildings, but Christians not all that long ago (certainly mroe recent than the Middle Ages) could pressure the governments of numerous countries to torture, maim and kill people for infractions against God just as trivial as those idiots like bin Laden blather on about.
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
This woman has no solutions. She simply identifies the truth of the situation and it doesn't take an Einstein to come to those conclusions.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
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There is nothing intelligent about her remarks. She classifies all Muslims by the views of the fundamentalist extremists.

Fundamentalists of any religion become a problem. This is because any religion that has been around for thousands of years has ideas, teachings, and beliefs that made sense in the society of the that period long ago. Fundamentalists refuse to allow their religion to grow as society changes.

For example the Catholic religion does not recognize women as equals and has no intention of ever doing so. In this way religion becomes one of the greatest obstacles to human advancement.

Also people always ignore one of the biggest causes for the clash between Arab nations and the west. If it wasn't for the jewish appropriation of arab land to form Israel and the massive amount of aid that the US gives to Israel there wouldn't be anywhere near the animosity that exists now.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,785
6,187
126
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: senseamp
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.

Damn. That is middle age lingo. Heretic? WTF?

http://www.answers.com/heretic&r=67


I know what it means, it's just that this language is being used in 2006, it just sounds so medieval.
 

blahblah99

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2000
2,689
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0
Originally posted by: Googer
Here is a powerful and amazing statement defending secular humanism on Al Jazeera television . The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from Los Angeles. I would suggest watching it ASAP because I dont know how long the link will be active.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

For a transcript of the appearance (well worth the read even if you do have Windows Media Player), check out this link:

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1050


EDIT:
Press ALT+Enter in Windows Media Player to view the text in full screen for easier reading.

There's no solutions. She's just pointing out the obvious reasons.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
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IMHO the religion of Islam is one of many problems that will continue to plague the Middle East. Compared to all major dominant religions it is definitely "backwards" in many ways, such as treatment towards women. Furthermore, it is a stagnant religion, one that is incapable of change. There is no literalist vs. contextualist debate in Islam, everything is to be interpreted exactly as stated in the Quran. Unless Islam falls, the Middle East will continue to be one of the most troubled, backwards, and poor regions of the world.
 

dexvx

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
3,899
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Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
IMHO the religion of Islam is one of many problems that will continue to plague the Middle East. Compared to all major dominant religions it is definitely "backwards" in many ways, such as treatment towards women. Furthermore, it is a stagnant religion, one that is incapable of change. There is no literalist vs. contextualist debate in Islam, everything is to be interpreted exactly as stated in the Quran. Unless Islam falls, the Middle East will continue to be one of the most troubled, backwards, and poor regions of the world.

Same thing could be said about Christianity hundreds of years back.

There are many "literal" interpretations of the Bible that is not practiced today. What Islam needs to do is to grow out of the more archaic aspects of their religion.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: Ronstang
This woman has no solutions. She simply identifies the truth of the situation and it doesn't take an Einstein to come to those conclusions.

the solutions is a cultural change, thats her solution
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
IMHO the religion of Islam is one of many problems that will continue to plague the Middle East. Compared to all major dominant religions it is definitely "backwards" in many ways, such as treatment towards women. Furthermore, it is a stagnant religion, one that is incapable of change. There is no literalist vs. contextualist debate in Islam, everything is to be interpreted exactly as stated in the Quran. Unless Islam falls, the Middle East will continue to be one of the most troubled, backwards, and poor regions of the world.

People who call for the fall of Islam when they obviously know next to nothing about it are as guilty as the extremist for creating the trouble, animosity, and conflicts. Pretty much everyhting you said is factually inaccurate.

Do a little reading.....

You'll find stuff like this:
The place of women in Islam, traditional gender roles in Islam and Islamic feminism are likewise major issues. For this reason, liberal Muslims are often critical of traditional Islamic law interpretations which allow polygamy for men but not women, as well as the traditional Islamic law of inheritance under which daughters receive less than sons. It is also accepted by most liberal Muslims that a woman may lead the state, and that women should not be segregated from men in society or in mosques. Some liberal Muslims accept that a woman may lead a mixed group in prayers, despite the custom for women to pray behind or in a separate space. However, this issue remains controversial; see women as imams. Some Muslim feminists are also opposed to the traditional dress requirements for women (commonly called hijab), claiming that any modest clothing is sufficiently Islamic for both men and women.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
The problem with Islam is not the religion itself, it suffers the same problem christianity suffered during the middle ages. The church had real power over people, political power, governing power.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Originally posted by: Czar
The problem with Islam is not the religion itself, it suffers the same problem christianity suffered during the middle ages. The church had real power over people, political power, governing power.

Czar,

You ignore an important difference between Catholic Christianity and Islam. At least during the middle ages, there was one central church and a pope at its head. With the Catholic church run much like a modern corporation---with comman and control invested from the top down. As it is to this day. And with most protestant sects with their own command and control structures.

Islam has never had that central authority-----but various religious scholars do acheive a
certain respect which can only be attained with advanced age.

But one of the most technologically advanced countries is the State of Israel---and it too lacks that central religious authority. And when we talk of Islam from the jaded perspective of these forums, its all too easy to see only the Islamic fundementalists as the face and heart of Islam.

Which is as accurate as judging Christianity by the antics of David Koresh or Jim Jones.

Religions can and do evolve to meet new aspects of modernity---and in that process parts of that same religion tries to regress. On the whole modernity continues unabaitaed.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: Czar
The problem with Islam is not the religion itself, it suffers the same problem christianity suffered during the middle ages. The church had real power over people, political power, governing power.

Czar,

You ignore an important difference between Catholic Christianity and Islam. At least during the middle ages, there was one central church and a pope at its head. With the Catholic church run much like a modern corporation---with comman and control invested from the top down. As it is to this day. And with most protestant sects with their own command and control structures.

Islam has never had that central authority-----but various religious scholars do acheive a
certain respect which can only be attained with advanced age.

But one of the most technologically advanced countries is the State of Israel---and it too lacks that central religious authority. And when we talk of Islam from the jaded perspective of these forums, its all too easy to see only the Islamic fundementalists as the face and heart of Islam.

Which is as accurate as judging Christianity by the antics of David Koresh or Jim Jones.

Religions can and do evolve to meet new aspects of modernity---and in that process parts of that same religion tries to regress. On the whole modernity continues unabaitaed.

These two are not exactly alike, I never said that. But they do suffer from the same problem, religious leaders with too much political power who govern using religious dogma which they decide what is.

Religions evolve the fastest when the people govern themselves.