• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

This Video, As Presented, Infuriates Me

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
cytg111 said:
Yup. Still. You can be vocal and still not resist. If I was black in the US I would carry a small usb stick recording device at all times.. the one I have records 72 hours straight before running full needs a recharge. You just never know when that shit comes in handy.
Click to expand...

No one should have to do that in a first world country such as ours. The fact that you would even suggest that goes to show just how bad the problem is.
 
cytg111 said:
You never know what kind of cop you gonna get. Comply comply comply... Yes mister officer. Then file complain afterwards if warranted. I understand its emotional and all, you just cant.
Click to expand...
Theres two problems with that claim:
1. Black men all across America are being shot and beaten for complying.
2. Courts almost never side with the civilian after the fact. The reason those big payouts keep making the news is they ARE news, not the norm. And frequently the police harass the victim just for complaining.

The fucking system is broken, and not nearly enough white middle-class people see it, so its probably never going to get fixed. Your apathy is leading us down a very dark path. We're gonna have riots and a civil war if we dont make real efforts to fix things.
 
HomerJS said:
He didn't refuse to leave. He already purchased the bike and wanted to leave. He said "I have the receipt". If Walmart release release recordings of him cursing at other shoppers while riding the bike this is just another "Let's call the cops on a black man and get him injured"
Click to expand...
JEDIYoda said:
Dude you know nothing about trespass laws! If the man was on his way out after being asked to leave the cops made an unlawful arrest!
Click to expand...
Guys, my point is, ACCORDING TO THE ARTICLE, if we are to believe Walmart, he already refused to leave prior to purchasing the bike. Now Walmart allowing him to complete the transaction before leaving likely complicates any cause for arrest for trespass, although they would still be in their right to subsequently ban him. I would probably argue he had consent to be there at that point since they let him buy the bike, while technically he had still previously committed trespass. Can he be arrested for the prior refusal? Maybe but seems rather dubious--and unnecessarily escalation. If not, it was definitely an unlawful arrest even if he was banned since he was on his way out.

"2010 Pennsylvania Code Title 18 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES Chapter 35 - Burglary and Other Criminal Intrusion 3503 - Criminal trespass."
(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in
any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
...
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense
under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third
degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally
communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other
authorized person.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
SmCaudata said:
Why do people care what happened in the store? If when the police arrived he was cooperative, then the police should investigate by working with the store, interviewing people, and reviewing video. Then the store can press charges and some prosecuter can look at the case. In absence of evidence, the only crime is harassment by police.

Our justice system is innocent until proven guilty not guilty until you can prove yourself innocent.
Click to expand...
Like someone referenced, look up the story of John Crawford. Read it and get back to us.
 
Last edited:
cytg111 said:
Yup. Still. You can be vocal and still not resist. If I was black in the US I would carry a small usb stick recording device at all times.. the one I have records 72 hours straight before running full needs a recharge. You just never know when that shit comes in handy.
Click to expand...
Yea, get one of those cheap car cameras that they use a lot in Russia because their cops are also corrupt, and hang it around your neck.
 
GoodRevrnd said:
Guys, my point is, ACCORDING TO THE ARTICLE, if we are to believe Walmart, he already refused to leave prior to purchasing the bike. Now Walmart allowing him to complete the transaction before leaving likely complicates any cause for arrest for trespass, although they would still be in their right to subsequently ban him. I would probably argue he had consent to be there at that point since they let him buy the bike, while technically he had still previously committed trespass. Can he be arrested for the prior refusal? Maybe but seems rather dubious--and unnecessarily escalation. If not, it was definitely an unlawful arrest even if he was banned since he was on his way out.

[quote="2010 Pennsylvania Code Title 18 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES Chapter 35 - Burglary and Other Criminal Intrusion 3503 - Criminal trespass."](b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in
any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
...
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense
under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third
degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally
communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other
authorized person.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
Listen to his conversation with the police. Does that sound like the level of calm and politeness of a person a few minutes earlier racing around the store like a maniac cursing at customers?
 
hal2kilo said:
Yea, get one of those cheap car cameras that they use a lot in Russia because their cops are also corrupt, and hang it around your neck.
Click to expand...

Audio alone can still do a ton, and its the size of half a thumb, just goes into your jacket somewhere.

No matter how fucked up the game rules are, if you play to win, you navigate the rules.
 
SmCaudata said:
You used the words secure the suspect... im still trying to figure out what he did that required securing.
Click to expand...
PA is not a stop and identify. Police are responding to an alleged trespass. They have reasonable suspicion a crime was, is being, or will be committed. This gives them the right to detain him. It appears unlikely the guy posed any threat so there was no need to cuff him, although this falls under escalation / use of force protocol which police notoriously fail to follow. While detained investigate the trespass, see it was likely not committed (per mixed circumstances outlined in previous post), tell him he's banned, send him on his way. Or, arrest/cite him on the trespassing technicality (see previous post), at which point he may be required to identify (this varies by jurisdiction). They might use this as a tactic to get ID to assist in Walmart's enforcement.
 
HomerJS said:
Listen to his conversation with the police. Does that sound like the level of calm and politeness of a person a few minutes earlier racing around the store like a maniac cursing at customers?
Click to expand...
No, but that's not what anyone claims happened either.
The office says a manager asked Gracius to leave Walmart where, authorities say, he was riding a children’s bike throughout the store, playing music, and “yelling obscenities.” Gracius refused, the District Attorney’s office said, and Walmart management called police.
Click to expand...
Probable course of events:
  • Guy is riding bike around a bit causing a minor ruckus.
  • Employee tells him to knock it off.
  • Guy is a dick and tells employee to fuck off.
  • Employee says leave or I'll call the cops.
  • Guy mouths off further and says fine I'ma buy the bike and leave.
  • Employee calls cops anyway (or another employee already did).
  • Cops show up hot, believe there may be theft involved (?), demand ID, don't investigate anything
  • Guy refuses to identify, says he paid for his shit and is leaving
  • Cops escalate to aggressive arrest, still without investigating anything
  • Guy is black, so was screwed by unnecessary escalation every step along the chain
 
GoodRevrnd said:
PA is not a stop and identify. Police are responding to an alleged trespass. They have reasonable suspicion a crime was, is being, or will be committed. This gives them the right to detain him. It appears unlikely the guy posed any threat so there was no need to cuff him, although this falls under escalation / use of force protocol which police notoriously fail to follow. While detained investigate the trespass, see it was likely not committed (per mixed circumstances outlined in previous post), tell him he's banned, send him on his way. Or, arrest/cite him on the trespassing technicality (see previous post), at which point he may be required to identify (this varies by jurisdiction). They might use this as a tactic to get ID to assist in Walmart's enforcement.
Click to expand...
Reread article again, and missed a bit:
When officers arrived, they waited for about four minutes while Gracius purchased the bicycle. Officers told Gracius that Walmart wanted to ban him from the store and asked for his identification, according to the video captions. Gracius refused, authorities said, and officers attempted to detain him for this information.
Click to expand...
So even the cops sat there and observed Walmart's consent to be there. I doubt there's any statute that requires him to identify to aid in trespass enforcement, since the actual crime is coming back. Usually municipalities have trespass forms/logs the property owner files to prove subsequent enforcement. Not usually up to police to enforce the initial logging.
 
Last edited:
GoodRevrnd said:
No, but that's not what anyone claims happened either.

Probable course of events:
  • Guy is riding bike around a bit causing a minor ruckus.
  • Employee tells him to knock it off.
  • Guy is a dick and tells employee to fuck off.
  • Employee says leave or I'll call the cops.
  • Guy mouths off further and says fine I'ma buy the bike and leave.
  • Employee calls cops anyway (or another employee already did).
  • Cops show up hot, believe there may be theft involved (?), demand ID, don't investigate anything
  • Guy refuses to identify, says he paid for his shit and is leaving
  • Cops escalate to aggressive arrest, still without investigating anything
  • Guy is black, so was screwed by unnecessary escalation every step along the chain
Click to expand...
If he was white he would have been treated a lot differently!
I have seen this happen time and again!! Being white is a total advantage!
Had he been white -- The cops would have asked him to leave or worse case scenario escorted him off the property!!
 
Last edited:
lol so I pretty much nailed it except it appears he was being as big a dick as the article stated. That video doesn't frame the arrest in a good light though, especially with their own commentary. Store and cops clearly allowed him to remain and then he was leaving so they don't have cause to detain/arrest him for trespass. Failure to identify is not a crime in PA and they don't actually need his identity to "legally ban him." The detention and arrest was illegal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top