This showing enemy dead for propaganda disturbs me.

[tnitsuj]

First it was the showing of dead American soldiers by US news media (see previous thread), now the blatant flaunting of the bodies of Saddams sons. Of course they were bad guys, and the world is probably better without them...but I fear we have opened Pandoras box.

 

[rudder]

Mnay iraqis just would not believe the US telling them that saddams sons were dead. They needed to see it for themselves. Have you not watched "marked for death?"

 

[CaptnKirk]

Yes, you are a disturbed person.

Army didn't want to show the pictures.
Rumsfeld did want to show the pictures.

Rummy Wins ! Rummy Wins !
They're selling CD of the Rap-Video.

Odai - Whoo, Whoo
Qusay - Whup, whup

Odai & Qusay in the box -
Come on people bring the rocks.
Hussein Bros done went down -
Drag their bods all 'cross town.

Propaganda and symbology - glad our culture shows some respect.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Yes, you are a disturbed person.

Army didn't want to show the pictures.
Rumsfeld did want to show the pictures.

Rummy Wins ! Rummy Wins !
They're selling CD of the Rap-Video.

Odai - Whoo, Whoo
Qusay - Whup, whup

Odai & Qusay in the box -
Come on people bring the rocks.
Hussein Bros done went down -
Drag their bods all 'cross town.

Propaganda and symbology - glad our culture shows some respect.

What about all our complaints when dead US soldiers were broadcast on Al Jazeera? I can see why the Army wasn't too keen on this. What's next? Dead US soldier hour on Al Jazeera?

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Yes, you are a disturbed person.

Army didn't want to show the pictures.
Rumsfeld did want to show the pictures.

Rummy Wins ! Rummy Wins !
They're selling CD of the Rap-Video.

Odai - Whoo, Whoo
Qusay - Whup, whup

Odai & Qusay in the box -
Come on people bring the rocks.
Hussein Bros done went down -
Drag their bods all 'cross town.

Propaganda and symbology - glad our culture shows some respect.

What about all our complaints when dead US soldiers were broadcast on Al Jazeera? I can see why the Army wasn't too keen on this. What's next? Dead US soldier hour on Al Jazeera?

I thought the major part of the complaint with the filming of the dead was that it would be broadcast before the families were notified.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Yes, you are a disturbed person.

Army didn't want to show the pictures.
Rumsfeld did want to show the pictures.

Rummy Wins ! Rummy Wins !
They're selling CD of the Rap-Video.

Odai - Whoo, Whoo
Qusay - Whup, whup

Odai & Qusay in the box -
Come on people bring the rocks.
Hussein Bros done went down -
Drag their bods all 'cross town.

Propaganda and symbology - glad our culture shows some respect.

What about all our complaints when dead US soldiers were broadcast on Al Jazeera? I can see why the Army wasn't too keen on this. What's next? Dead US soldier hour on Al Jazeera?

I thought the major part of the complaint with the filming of the dead was that it would be broadcast before the families were notified.

That is a big part, but it is also against the Geneva conventions to show enemy prisoners or dead as public curiosities or for propoganda purposes. Rumsfeld himself along with Dick Myers were up on the podium screaming about the conventions when that happened.

 

[Napalm]

It is completely unacceptable as it contravenes the Geneva Conventions.

The only reaons Rumsfeld is doing it is because he can get away with it. The excuse about wanting to remove doubt is bogus as a picture of a bloodied face proves nothing - many here could likely have produced better pictures of the dead duo in photoshop and that would not make them any more real.

They are doing it basically so that they can crow about it - pretty sad state of affairs what we have come to with this administration in power...

N

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Napalm
It is completely unacceptable as it contravenes the Geneva Conventions.

The only reaons Rumsfeld is doing it is because he can get away with it. The excuse about wanting to remove doubt is bogus as a picture of a bloodied face proves nothing - many here could likely have produced better pictures of the dead duo in photoshop and that would not make them any more real.

They are doing it basically so that they can crow about it - pretty sad state of affairs what we have come to with this administration in power...

N

How do you photoshop
A video?, my conspiracy theorist friend?

And were Uday and Qusay soldiers, since that is what the Geneva Convention covers...

 

[CaptnKirk]

The Pig Latin Brothers were leaders of their military. Soldiers, yes.
That part of the world always shows bodies and pictures for political reasons.
Why should we be left out of playing the game by their rules.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Yes, you are a disturbed person.

Army didn't want to show the pictures.
Rumsfeld did want to show the pictures.

Rummy Wins ! Rummy Wins !
They're selling CD of the Rap-Video.

Odai - Whoo, Whoo
Qusay - Whup, whup

Odai & Qusay in the box -
Come on people bring the rocks.
Hussein Bros done went down -
Drag their bods all 'cross town.

Propaganda and symbology - glad our culture shows some respect.

What about all our complaints when dead US soldiers were broadcast on Al Jazeera? I can see why the Army wasn't too keen on this. What's next? Dead US soldier hour on Al Jazeera?

I thought the major part of the complaint with the filming of the dead was that it would be broadcast before the families were notified.

That is a big part, but it is also against the Geneva conventions to show enemy prisoners or dead as public curiosities or for propoganda purposes. Rumsfeld himself along with Dick Myers were up on the podium screaming about the conventions when that happened.

I agree about the POW part. I disagree about the dead part. It says that the dead shouldn't be ill-treated, properly interred, identified, etc but I can find no mention of the propaganda purposes part. I'm not saying we are right in showing it, I'm just saying I can't find anything in the GC that covers it.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
The Pig Latin Brothers were leaders of their military. Soldiers, yes.
That part of the world always shows bodies and pictures for political reasons.
Why should we be left out of playing the game by their rules.

What were their ranks?

Try again.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Hello !
President Hussein kinda like Bush.
Then there's the Colin Powells, and Rumsfelds - civilian authority with power over the military.
Secretary of Defense, Secretary of state. They don't carry military rank.
Why else would the Bush Administration go out on a mission to assassinate leaders
of a foriegn goverment unless it had an impact on the leadership of that country.
The Husseins were the leadership and chain of command of Iraq,
they ran the country and the countries military, SuperGenerals in their command.

 

[Lucky]

.

 

[Lucky]

That is a big part, but it is also against the Geneva conventions to show enemy prisoners or dead as public curiosities or for propoganda purposes. Rumsfeld himself along with Dick Myers were up on the podium screaming about the conventions when that happened.

POW's, yes. Dead, no.

It is completely unacceptable as it contravenes the Geneva Conventions.

Please tell how. In detail, with supporting links.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: rudder
Mnay iraqis just would not believe the US telling them that saddams sons were dead. They needed to see it for themselves. Have you not watched "marked for death?"

What's the problem with showing the bodies. The whole war was totally illegal and unjustified. Bush has created a new doctrine of warfare, the New American Century type where we make the rules. We have become the new evil in the world and it will be us against which the entire world will conspire. We will now be ejected from the barrel as we rot from this evil worm.

The really interesting thing about the post I quote above are the unexamined assumptions. "Many Iraqis wouldn't believe." Where did this idea come from? How did it become a reported item in the news? Did somebody take a poll or did somebody ask to have this idea put out there? "They needed to see" Who says so? How did this notion arise? Did it have the same source?

The important thing about this story, in my opinion is the print it absorbs, the good news in Iraq, distracts from a certain 16 words. The truth isn't what really matters, it's what people are talking about. Bush can walk around stark necked just as long as everybody pretends he's wearing clothes.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Hello !
President Hussein kinda like Bush.
Then there's the Colin Powells, and Rumsfelds - civilian authority with power over the military.
Secretary of Defense, Secretary of state. They don't carry military rank.
Why else would the Bush Administration go out on a mission to assassinate leaders
of a foriegn goverment unless it had an impact on the leadership of that country.
The Husseins were the leadership and chain of command of Iraq,
they ran the country and the countries military, SuperGenerals in their command.

Are civilian leaders covered under the Geneva Convention?

Try again.

 

[Bulk Beef]

Originally posted by: Lucky

That is a big part, but it is also against the Geneva conventions to show enemy prisoners or dead as public curiosities or for propoganda purposes. Rumsfeld himself along with Dick Myers were up on the podium screaming about the conventions when that happened.

POW's, yes. Dead, no.

It is completely unacceptable as it contravenes the Geneva Conventions.

Please tell how. In detail, with supporting links.

Yeah, my recollection of the beef over the Al Jazeera videos is that it pertained to the POW vids, not so much the dead body footage, and the concern that some of the dead had been executed.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Hello !
President Hussein kinda like Bush.
Then there's the Colin Powells, and Rumsfelds - civilian authority with power over the military.
Secretary of Defense, Secretary of state. They don't carry military rank.
Why else would the Bush Administration go out on a mission to assassinate leaders
of a foriegn goverment unless it had an impact on the leadership of that country.
The Husseins were the leadership and chain of command of Iraq,
they ran the country and the countries military, SuperGenerals in their command.

Are civilian leaders covered under the Geneva Convention?

Try again.

Everyone is covered under the Geneva Convention in one form or another.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Hello !
President Hussein kinda like Bush.
Then there's the Colin Powells, and Rumsfelds - civilian authority with power over the military.
Secretary of Defense, Secretary of state. They don't carry military rank.
Why else would the Bush Administration go out on a mission to assassinate leaders
of a foriegn goverment unless it had an impact on the leadership of that country.
The Husseins were the leadership and chain of command of Iraq,
they ran the country and the countries military, SuperGenerals in their command.

Are civilian leaders covered under the Geneva Convention?

Try again.

Everyone is covered under the Geneva Convention in one form or another.

I should be more specific. Are civilian leaders covered under the Geneva Convention like soldiers are? i.e. the "Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;" clause. (which is where Rummy was complaining about the interviews on TV)

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Considering we have no pictures of WMD but we (current leadership of the US) are convinced its there . . . why not just report the deaths and provide circumstantial evidence (dental/med records)? I'm no expert in face recognition but I'm not convinced by the picture. Now the x-ray of the leg is convincing . . . assuming you have independent verification.

IMHO, most Iraqis that want to see these guys dead . . . REALLY want to see these guys dead. I wouldn't advocate "head on a stick" or "dragging the bodies" through Baghdad but I think many Iraqis would consider such measures all but necessary to prove their demise. Accordingly, the release of these pictures has little value (other than propaganda . . . even if it is true) while essentially trampling on what little moral superiority the US government has left.

 

[Moonbeam]

The reason we have little moral relevancy left is that we have squandered it the neocon notion that the ends justify the means. You can be evil if you are good. That's why we're now visited by WinstonSmith.

 

[LunarRay]

I thought we had the capacity to render the folks contained in that house unconscious ... If so... we could have captured them alive and that would have been the propaganda coup of the Iraqi "war".. Imagine having the brothers Grim stand trial for whatever and be executed in Baghdad's central parade grounds... they should not have killed them... (assumes they could have gotten them alive).