This makes sense for the PS5 given Sony's past arrogance...

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
11,767
46
91

Since Sony is in the lead for this round of consoles, it makes sense for them to shoot themselves in the foot and go for a proprietary SSD solution (a.k.a. see PS Vita memory card prices and weap).

Here's what I think will happen. Sony will release the PS5 with a 500GB or less SSD internally soldered onto the board at a $399 price point. The only user upgrades will be though these cartridges and they'll cost 2-3x what a normal SSD goes for. Sony will hope the cheap price gets people to lap up the new hardware and they'll make the difference up on these cartridges. What do you think of my theory?
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
5,286
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With the cost of SSDs dropping, I think it would be an excellent idea to go back to cartridges. Harder to damage than a CD and more reliable than cloud streaming.

The medium clearly has no impact on cost considering a game download is still $60 at launch.
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
11,767
46
91
With the cost of SSDs dropping, I think it would be an excellent idea to go back to cartridges. Harder to damage than a CD and more reliable than cloud streaming.

The medium clearly has no impact on cost considering a game download is still $60 at launch.
I think they'll stick to optical discs for game installs, but these cartridges would be mass storage I would think. Think along the lines of the proprietary HDD caddys the XBox 360 used.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
16,199
274
126
I think they'll stick to optical discs for game installs, but these cartridges would be mass storage I would think. Think along the lines of the proprietary HDD caddys the XBox 360 used.
I think optical disc are on the way out. Microsoft lit the fuse, and I see Sony following suit. I don't know what to make of the drives in this piece. As long as the PS5 has at least a 1TB SSD, I won't care.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,677
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Hmm, I wonder what the system topology will look like if they support add on drives. I had assumed that the SSD controller would be integrated into the southbridge with the NAND chips directly attached to that, and then PCIe4 up to the main APU. That way they can do cool tricks with the system downloading/updating games while "off" with just the CPU in the southbridge. But where do add on drives attach?

  • Direct PCIe attachment to the APU? Good for performance, but bad for idle power because you need the APU on to update games. And that is a lot of I/O on an expensive chip that will go unused most of the time.
  • PCIe attachment to the southbridge? Good for idle power and cost (put the extra pins on the cheap 14nm part, not the expensive 7nm part), but it reduces performance because there's now an extra hop in the chain.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,284
401
126
Since Sony is in the lead for this round of consoles, it makes sense for them to shoot themselves in the foot and go for a proprietary SSD solution (a.k.a. see PS Vita memory card prices and weap).
There is a part of me that wonders when Sony will let their arrogance shine through again and screw up like they did with the PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Vita. Heck, you could argue that it has already happened with the PlayStation 4 and the godawful battery life on the controllers, but consumers have mostly given them a pass over it. Heck, most people that I know ended up buying another controller just so they could swap when one was down too low, and why would Sony complain about more peripheral sales!
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,693
650
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Most people also don't know you can dim the controller to extend battery life... but I hear you, even though my original controllers lasted 5 years before I had to swap in higher capacity batteries. Vita was definitely a failure overall though; even though I do like the little handheld, Sony and its developers did NOT deliver on that platform.

It's still too early to speculate about PS5 though. I mean this cartridge thing could be a EU or Japan-only thing for all we know. Axing the optical drive is likely but cartridge storage, while certainly not the cartridges of yesterday, might just be a conceptual idea that they're prototyping for something else.
 

KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
7,800
179
106
I will wait to get triggered until something is actually announced. Too early to get all worked up about something like this.
 

purbeast0

Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
49,198
2,179
126
I thought it was already confirmed that PS5 has a UHD Bluray Drive in it.

All I know is once consoles go digital only, I'm out.
 
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Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
11,767
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91
Same, when we get no more physical games im out as well.
I really feel like we're about there anyway. Games are released in pretty much an unfinished state as it is, and to play the final version of a game requires an Online connection. Once the patching servers are gone, there's no archiving of a game. Not to mention, many of today's games require an always Online connection to play at all anyway.
 

purbeast0

Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
49,198
2,179
126
I really feel like we're about there anyway. Games are released in pretty much an unfinished state as it is, and to play the final version of a game requires an Online connection. Once the patching servers are gone, there's no archiving of a game. Not to mention, many of today's games require an always Online connection to play at all anyway.
Not any of the games I play.
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
11,767
46
91
Not any of the games I play.
I try to get physical copies of games I'll keep long term. One recent and bad example is Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. The on-disc game is playable, but there have been significant patches and balancing after the physical disc/cart was released. Ideally, I'd have a copy of the game with all the relevant patches in-place for my console version.
 

purbeast0

Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
49,198
2,179
126
I try to get physical copies of games I'll keep long term. One recent and bad example is Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. The on-disc game is playable, but there have been significant patches and balancing after the physical disc/cart was released. Ideally, I'd have a copy of the game with all the relevant patches in-place for my console version.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but that is one out of a bajillion games.

I did hear the Switch version was really bad though and everyone said it shouldn't have even been released. I do agree that crap like that shouldn't happen. But I just speak with my wallet and don't get games like that.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,515
742
126
I really feel like we're about there anyway. Games are released in pretty much an unfinished state as it is, and to play the final version of a game requires an Online connection. Once the patching servers are gone, there's no archiving of a game. Not to mention, many of today's games require an always Online connection to play at all anyway.
Correct me if im wrong but you can backup your ps4 game data to an external drive, so you can keep a copy of the game data with all patches applied in case your ps4 hdd did die. And like purbeast0 i tend not to buy games that rely on a online server to play, and tend to pick more single player games, even the games i do play multiplayer i try and make sure have a decent single player campaign.
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
11,767
46
91
Correct me if im wrong but you can backup your ps4 game data to an external drive, so you can keep a copy of the game data with all patches applied in case your ps4 hdd did die. And like purbeast0 i tend not to buy games that rely on a online server to play, and tend to pick more single player games, even the games i do play multiplayer i try and make sure have a decent single player campaign.
You're sorta wrong. The HDD backup will only work with the original PS4 the backup was made with. It allows you to restore to that particular piece of hardware only.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,515
742
126
You're sorta wrong. The HDD backup will only work with the original PS4 the backup was made with. It allows you to restore to that particular piece of hardware only.
Well then this will work for hdd failure, which i guess is most likely point of failure anyways. Weird though that it wouldn't restore to a identical piece of hardware if you found same revision/firmware.
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
646
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Sony wasn't the one that didn't allow you to borrow a hard copy of your friend's game. THAT was arrogance.

The memory thing is honestly just a dumb move, if it actually happens.
 

JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
3,994
65
91
Not any of the games I play.
Exactly right ! I play absolutely nothing online anymore. The last game I played online was Doom 3. Stop playing that in 2012. Games today, I have zero interest that require online...or whatever. My favorite franchise is Devil May Cry. Say that goes online only. Well, ill go back to playing the older titles. I understand things like Playstation Now.....but when a physical copy needs authorized online once a week, or whatever. Again, Im out.

Ive been collecting "physical" copies of all games now anyways. Just purchased 27 Playstation 3 games....25 original Xbox games....6 Wii U games....for a total of $40 from Facebook Marketplace.

Again, online only ? Digital only ? I'm out.
 

JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
3,994
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91
I think optical disc are on the way out. Microsoft lit the fuse, and I see Sony following suit. I don't know what to make of the drives in this piece. As long as the PS5 has at least a 1TB SSD, I won't care.
I won't care either. But, what if certain Playstation 5 games is well over a 100GB for install ?
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
16,199
274
126
I won't care either. But, what if certain Playstation 5 games is well over a 100GB for install ?
Then you will learn how not to have so many games installed at the same time. Either that or learn how to upgrade the drive. I did that with my ps3. Not sure if you could do that with the ps4. I traded in my original ps4 for the pro, so my drive space doubled.
 
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Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,515
742
126
Either that or learn how to upgrade the drive. I did that with my ps3. Not sure if you could do that with the ps4. I traded in my original ps4 for the pro, so my drive space doubled.
You can, before i even booted my ps4 pro for the first time it got a 2TB ssd rammed into it and a 8
TB external hooked up. I dont want to have to worry about running out of room, ever lol.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
16,199
274
126
You can, before i even booted my ps4 pro for the first time it got a 2TB ssd rammed into it and a 8
TB external hooked up. I dont want to have to worry about running out of room, ever lol.
That's 10TB total!!! :eek:
 
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