This just in: "Self-Esteem" movement not really all that good for kids?

[Queasy]

Link

In a study released Sept. 13 on the the Paris-based Organization for Cooperation and Development, it was revealed that among adults 25 to 34, the United States is No. 9 among industrialized nations in the share of its population that has at least a high school degree. In the share of its population within the same age group holding a college degree, the United States ranks seventh. As few as 20 years ago, it ranked first in both evaluations.

 

[Noobtastic]

Repeat after me:


"Every day and every way, I am getting better and better."


My school promotes this non-credited class called "leadership." In it, they are taught that the key to leadership is reading books like "The 10 best ways to success," and " The 10 best ways to success, second edition."


Seriously people. Integrity isn't manufactured or synthesized from a classroom. The leadership kids are advertised to be this impeccable group of elites, when in reality they possess they same flaws all of us live with on a day to day basis. The only difference is, they're taught not to admit it. Instead, they go around parading around with their Emile Cou books and self-help pamphlets treating the rest of us like dirt. This is not how you win friends and influence people.

I wish my school would invest more time in actual programs that will further my education and help me succeed in LIFE. I don't need to be told how awesome, smart, cool, and funny I am. I already know this.

 

[Sphexi]

Found the article from Macleans, the last paragraph sums it up pretty good:

In fact, more than narcissism, Ouellette believes many of us today suffer from solipsism -- the inability to recognize the existence of another viewpoint. "Solipsism is supposed to end by mid-adolescence, but I don't think it's disappearing at the same stage in the cognitive process that it used to," he says. "Most people get to a point in their lives when they recognize that others have a viewpoint that is just as valid as their own. With adolescence starting earlier and ending later, some never get to that stage. It ultimately comes down to always thinking, 'what's in it for me.'

Telling our kids that they're special, that it's all about them, and treating them like little princes and princesses has basically turned them into a whole generation of people who aren't able to grasp that other people think differently than they do.

 

[JRich]

Just because someone's kid sucks at dodgeball...

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
This is of no surprise. I have watched plenty of people damage their kids with this BS over the last decade shaking my head the whole time. Not everyone bought into this crap to begin with.

..no doubt. Sooner or later they have to deal with the real world of winners and loosers. Self esteem dribble is a fraud and child abuse.

 

[elnovato]

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
American students rank #1 in self-esteem, but education is a distant #13 among industrial nations.

(public school, that is)



Mysteriously, the suicidal rate in American high schools surpasses all other industrial nations by a mile. Weird, eh?

Where do you get your facts ? Prove these facts are true. They are not true and that is the simple fact! You just made them up.

Funny how you demand proof but aren't quick to bring your own.

 

[Tommouse]

Originally posted by: elnovato

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
American students rank #1 in self-esteem, but education is a distant #13 among industrial nations.

(public school, that is)



Mysteriously, the suicidal rate in American high schools surpasses all other industrial nations by a mile. Weird, eh?

Where do you get your facts ? Prove these facts are true. They are not true and that is the simple fact! You just made them up.

Funny how you demand proof but aren't quick to bring your own.

Yea honestly, hold yourself to the same standards that you are pushing on others with backing up claims. Don't just dispute it and call it wrong without facts of your own to back it up.

On Topic:
This article just made it a bit clearer as to why so many Americans are stupid/ignorant and still completely believe they are right. I see this the most with people younger than me. Perhaps they just haven't matured enough yet. I dunno it's late ...

 

[angminas]

Even a good dog trainer knows you don't praise bad behavior. It reinforces it. You force good behavior, then praise that. In time the behavior is produced without you having to do it manually every time. The attitude follows, and then further behavior comes from the attitude. The individual actually becomes empowered. It's similar with children, though more complex, especially in that you explain and reason with children.

Any outgoing flatterhack can tell a group of people they're all awesome. It takes a special person to actually help those people in ways that suit their individual needs, so that they can actually BECOME better. It's good to give encouragement before accomplishment, but only in due measure. You can't just tell the whole class that any one of them can be president and expect it to actually help them, any more than you can walk into an Overeaters Anonymous meeting and tell the people they're all perfect just like they are. And praise (generally) needs to be earned, or it's worse than useless- it's actually destructive in many situations. Note again the word "generally".

On the one hand, it's good that public school teachers don't get paid well, because nobody in their right mind would work there for the money. On the other hand, education is where we need our best people, and it's damn hard to work for half or a tenth of what you could get in the private sector, just to help some brats you don't know from Adam go make a lot more money than you do in easier jobs. If you know a good public school teacher, take a moment to think about what they sacrificed so that you could read and understand this thread.

pcslookout has a lot of learning to do. At least listen to what people say before you tell them they're wrong. Ask for a source, but tell them they're wrong in the same post, before they have a chance to quote said source? Accuse strangers of manufacturing data when you have no evidence they did? Demand proof, but don't bother to provide any of your own? Is that how you discuss things logically and effectively? You might want to do some self-examination before you boost your post count too high, pal. The way I see it, your posts in this thread are a good start on the pile of evidence condemning the self-esteem movement. Indeed, your groundless assertion that you can't be proven wrong itself proves you wrong without any of us having to say anything.

 

[judasmachine]

You get better results by calling them dumbasses in front of their friends. Well at least the lawn gets mowed.

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

My solution: 1 year in the military should be a requirement. I see so many college kids who would benefit greatly from some form of military experience.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: pulse8
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

Our sugared-up, pussified, politically correct, overly self-esteemed children are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world. When they grow up, they WILL be their fvcking khakis.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Noob may not have been accurate about the suicide rates but he is close on the other ones. American schools continually test lower than other industrialized nations. Doesn't take a genius to Google it.

First link on "Public Education Rankings World"

At age 10, American students take an international test and score well above the international average. But by age 15, when students from 40 countries are tested, the Americans place 25th.

...

The longer kids stay in American schools, the worse they do in international competition. They do worse than kids from poorer countries that spend much less money on education, ranking behind not only Belgium but also Poland, the Czech Republic and South Korea.

Not Poland!

But seriously, I know my high school scored on average at the bottom 10 of the charts on standardized testing in New Jersey, but the top 10% of the school scored in the top few % in the state. We had a segregated school system sort of, a fast track for the "gifted students" that put us generally in classes 2 years ahead of other students (though mostly only in classes with each other), a track just below that that put kids on year ahead (but no separate classes), and then a track for people who just didn't care. In addition, most classes were available in enriched and college prep form.
The top 10 was full of people who got accepted to Ivys (though most declined due to cost), and then anyone outside of the top 10% generally didn't even go to college.