This is the worst idea I have ever heard of.

Sukhoi

Elite Member
Dec 5, 1999
15,349
106
106
Surprised it hasn't made more national news for how stupid it is. Whoever came up with the idea needs to be killed for being too dumb to coexist with the rest of the population.

http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county/ci_16631039

Peninsula residents are upset about a proposal to charge commuters $6 each weekday to enter and exit San Francisco to the south, calling the plan "a slap in the face," "a crazy idea" and "ridiculous."

Already dealing with some of the nation's highest gas prices and, in some cases, hefty parking fees, drivers crossing the San Mateo County-San Francisco border would pay rush hour tolls to fund local transportation upgrades and, in theory, reduce traffic jams, under a proposal by San Francisco officials.

Officials said they would spend $60 million to $100 million to set up the electronic system, coupled with local transit improvements, starting in 2015. It would be the first local "congestion pricing" system in the country and could begin as a 6-to-12-month pilot program that, if successful, could become permanent.

Under the plan, drivers leaving or entering San Francisco at the southern border would pay $3 from 6:30 to 9:30 a.m. and another $3 from 3:30 to 6:30 p.m. on weekdays, with a daily cap of $6. Commuters would pay up to $130 per month, or $1,500 in a year, if the tolls last that long.

"That would cover all my utility bills. It would be a new bill that I cannot afford," said Loraine Lee, 28, who lives in Daly City two blocks from the San Francisco border and commutes to a property management company on Treasure Island. She said because of the hours of her job and lack of transit options, she'd have no choice but to pay the toll.
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"I think this whole toll is ridiculous."

And non-commuters like Daly City's Annie Lyn and Mary Tevis, who travel to San Francisco daily for shopping and other trips, would have to change their lifestyles to avoid the toll times.

Daly City Councilman David Canepa said he thought the worst part of the plan was that it was being done "under the guise of trying to get people to take public transportation."

"It's absolutely nonsensical," said Canepa, who also called the plan terrible, atrocious and egregious. "It's a slap in all of our faces. They're trying to make San Mateo County residents pay a tax because over the years they haven't made proper investments in their infrastructure."

Locals also wondered why San Francisco would be getting all the money even though the border is shared by both counties, and what would stop other cities from copying them.

"We could do the same thing; it'd be a nightmare," warned Assemblyman Jerry Hill, D-San Mateo, of a toll at the same border to fund Peninsula projects, or tolls at each of the borders of all the local cities. "It sounds like another crazy idea. Where do you stop nickel and diming people? You should be able to travel from city to city without paying a toll."

Taxis and emergency vehicles would be exempt while some other drivers, such as low-income residents or those that already crossed a toll bridge that day, could receive discounts. Tolls would be collected electronically, via Fastrak and cameras, for those crossing the border on highways and major arterial streets. There are also dozens of local residential streets that cross the border, although there are no plans to charge tolls there.

The San Francisco County Transportation Authority said the pilot program could take place either at the southern border or in the northeast part of the city.

Tilly Chang, a deputy director at the agency, argued the toll would decrease traffic because people would alter their commute times and take transit to save money. The authority predicts traffic at the city's southern border would drop 20 percent during commute times after tolling.

"The cost of anything needs to be taken in context," Chang said. "It's not free right now. People are paying in time and having to pad their trip."

Nearly half a million drivers cross from San Mateo County into San Francisco each day on one of five highways, Caltrans data shows. By contrast, only about 20,000 people ride BART between the Peninsula and San Francisco each weekday, and another 10,000 take Caltrain, according to those agencies' records.

Chang said the toll would generate $60 million to $80 million in profits each year and would be spread out on projects to improve roads, transit, and bicycle and pedestrian networks.

The authority's board could approve further study at its meeting next month and the city's supervisors would need to endorse the finished plan. The state would also have to pass legislation allowing it, and it's even possible voters would need to approve the charges.

Another hurdle is the upfront cost, although the federal government previously offered New York City $350 million in hopes of persuading that city to launch the nation's first congestion tolling program. That plan died. Similar tolls are used abroad in Stockholm, London and Rome.

If you get a registration page from the link just refresh a few times and it should go away.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
See London Congestion Charge...

I'm sure other people have come up with this "smart" idea too...
 

Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
10,358
5
0
The topic has come up many times around here.. always gets shot down. Fucking tards
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,841
33,900
136
Sounds like a good idea. Smart employers would learn to stagger opening/closing hours or switch to 4/10 schedules to reduce costs/congestion.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Sounds like a good idea. Smart employers would learn to stagger opening/closing hours or switch to 4/10 schedules to reduce costs/congestion.

Smart employers aren't going to do any such thing. They're not going to change their schedules for some of their employees to put off others as well as complicate supply logistics or vendor/customer relationships.
 

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,448
1
76
I am driving to the SF airport (in San Mateo County, not SF) in just over a week. Having to pay a bridge fee of $6 and another $6 just to pass through the western edge of SF would suck. Fuck that.

I was a paramedic in SF and the commute/parking cost already meant I was giving an hour away free, this type of fee would add insult to injury.

I blame tip cup propagation.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
68
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Bla bla bla....

It will cause people to start car pooling. Once money saved on gas is factored in, along with reduced demand (downard pressure on pricing) people will probably break even. Commutes will also not be as long thanks to reduced congestion.

People complaining should be shot. They should however make it free for those with 3 or more people in a vehicle. This would include carpools and buses. And also gets rid of a punishment to tourists.

Also allow for yearly passes for frequent users (trucks that do multiple trips a day) that caps the cost. Maybe $1000 for a yearly pass.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Bla bla bla....

It will cause people to start car pooling. Once money saved on gas is factored in, along with reduced demand (downard pressure on pricing) people will probably break even. Commutes will also not be as long thanks to reduced congestion.

People complaining should be shot. They should however make it free for those with 3 or more people in a vehicle. This would include carpools and buses. And also gets rid of a punishment to tourists.

Also allow for yearly passes for frequent users (trucks that do multiple trips a day) that caps the cost. Maybe $1000 for a yearly pass.

Carpool? Doubt it.
 

tokie

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2006
1,491
0
0
Cities should also start bringing in auto-adjusted parking meters. By that I mean parking meters that automatically increase prices when demand for finite parking spaces is high.

Gotta extract those rents, brah
 

Sukhoi

Elite Member
Dec 5, 1999
15,349
106
106
It will cause people to start car pooling.

No, it won't. They say the same thing about the carpool lanes, but they don't work. The carpool lanes here are so empty compared to the regular lanes. Unless you're in a factory type job most people's work schedules are too varied to make carpooling work.

As for the London argument, it's completely different. London has a good subway system that makes a car in the inner-city a luxury. SF has single BART line through town and then a slow bus/light rail system to get you everywhere else. Besides BART on the Peninsula starts right by SFO so people have to drive to get to BART anyway. It's not like you walk out your door and get on the train like Europe.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
wont change anything, IIRC mass did something similar in boston. also it used to be cheaper to park illigally and get a ticket then pay the meter/lot fee. then they jacked the ticket fee up and nothing changed
 

Vic Vega

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2010
4,535
4
0
Heh... $12 for the privilege of driving into SF? I'll pass.

What exactly will people be getting for their $12?
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
As long as they charge people riding bikes, I have no problem with it.

Cyclists already don't pay their fair share.
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
What happened to a similar proposal in Manhattan?

Anyway, this does seem like a relatively stupid idea, but it seems like most entry points to SF already require tolls anyway so it seems like the next natural step. It will help pay for counseling for Jewish men in their teens.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
I think if they do enable a carpool lane and not have to pay the toll while carpooling it will work very well.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,857
31,346
146
this isn't anything new for major cities around the world, actually--though my understanding is that such fees are usually reserved for city centers?

anyway...this is fine with me. I have to pay 6 bucks to enter form the north. About time those freeloaders in the south ponied up a bit.

:colbert:

(assuming that I won't have to pay another toll if I've already crossed one of the damn bridges, of course)
 

Vic Vega

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2010
4,535
4
0
As long as they charge people riding bikes, I have no problem with it.

Cyclists already don't pay their fair share.

Perhaps cyclists who don't own cars or buy gas but most of them do (in the US) which means they are paying the same road tax as everyone else
 

daw123

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2008
2,593
0
0
See London Congestion Charge...

I'm sure other people have come up with this "smart" idea too...

That is exactly what I was thinking. They also have it in Durham (England) city centre as well.

It is an easy way of boosting the city council coffers, plus they can periodically increase the charge in the name of reducing pollution and congestion.

Essentially it is a tax.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
I still don't see what makes it a stupid idea. Tolls and Taxes are what they are just because suddenly you'll have to pay one everyday makes it dumb sure sounds like NIMBY syndrome.
 

Vic Vega

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2010
4,535
4
0
I still don't see what makes it a stupid idea. Tolls and Taxes are what they are just because suddenly you'll have to pay one everyday makes it dumb sure sounds like NIMBY syndrome.

So you didn't read or understand any of the arguments against it? Got it.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
32,036
32,521
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As long as they charge people riding bikes, I have no problem with it.

Cyclists already don't pay their fair share.
What do you mean by fair share? They require less space, are easy on the road surfaces, and help by not contributing to and/or alleviating a number of issues.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
Seems like this would also drive up rents even further in San Francisco. Presumably the reason these people are commuting is because the lower cost of living outside the city. Tack on $130 per month and a lot of them would probably apply that to living in the city and closer to work, rather than paying a toll.