this friendly fire thing..... a case of role fulfilment?

[otispunkmeyer]

im not here to say US pilots suck, friendly fire is normal for the US blah blah, or mention that ministers asked the US for answers for ages and got no where, or that no one has been trialled, telling the widow that the cockpit video didnt exist yada yada yada.

i wanna know... do you think this is a case of role fulfilment?

i've just read the whole transcript from the flight and its seems amidst sketchy info from control, the pilots pretty much convinced themselves that the orange markers were infact rockets.

im thinking, in the heat of the moment, that in a desire to carry out their roles and serve their country their minds actually interperated the markings as rockets and therefore a threat.

(much like that time that US vessel shot down a civiliam aircraft....the dude looking at the sqwark codes was so desperate to do his job right that he actually started seeing what he thought he should be seeing and not what was acutally there)

 

[Queasy]

I don't know what you mean by "role fulfillment" but I think it was just one of those battlefield mistakes that happen. It sucks but it happens. The USA is actually better at preventing friendly-fire incidents now than at any other time in history but this British convoy may not have been on the same system that is used to identify friend from foe.

<shrug> This is a relatively old incident so I'm sure that punishment has already been meted out.

 

[imported_Imp]

Read the transcript over, didn't sound like the pilots were trigger happy. Both of them notcied the orange markers, confirmed with controllers then rolled in. Doubt many people can say what those things looked from that far up and at that time. This seems to fall into the ****** happens category.

 

[Mo0o]

My friend was telling me about his dad's experiences in Vietnam and the concept of "Fragging" a friendly commander, such as "accidentally" rolling a grenade his way during a firefight. Apparently it was done (although very rarely) when the commander was incompetent and repeatedly put the unit at risk. How true this is I dont know, this is what he told me and apparnetly what his dad told him.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Queasy
I don't know what you mean by "role fulfillment" but I think it was just one of those battlefield mistakes that happen. It sucks but it happens. The USA is actually better at preventing friendly-fire incidents now than at any other time in history but this British convoy may not have been on the same system that is used to identify friend from foe.

<shrug> This is a relatively old incident so I'm sure that punishment has already been meted out.

i think having to live with the fact you killed friendly's is punishment enough. the guy sounded like his life had just ended. poor man

 

[FoBoT]

why were all the other threads on this locked?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Imp
Read the transcript over, didn't sound like the pilots were trigger happy. Both of them notcied the orange markers, confirmed with controllers then rolled in. Doubt many people can say what those things looked from that far up and at that time. This seems to fall into the ****** happens category.

yeah, they kept asking and saying.... orange markers orange markers. control kept saying they dont have friendlies in the area. i know put 2 and 2 together and its easy to see.

but really the doubt was there, if there was doubt i wouldnt of done it, and when reading it still does sound like they convinced themselves, based on the intel that there were no friendlies near by.

i've never been to war or been in a situation like that, but i understand thats a very difficult position to be in, very difficult.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
why were all the other threads on this locked?

they were primarily america bashing so got locked. i expect this one to get locked too since i am a brit.

but i'd just watcheda documentary about the civilian plane shot down by a US vessel....(iranian airlines i think, or in that area of the world anyway) and they came to the conclusion that the guy watching the aircraft sqwark codes was so intent on doing his job that he actually saw what he thought he should be seeing.

you know, he knew what things had to happen for him to carry out his role, and he was that keen to fulfil his role and not let the team down, that he began to see those things that he required rather than what was actually there. he thought he saw the sqwark code for a fighter, when it was a civillian aircraft. that plus they were communicating on a different frequency thinkin that it was a fighter. turns out an F15 did take off at roughly the same time as the passenger jet and thats where they got mixed up. role fulfilment + ****** happens

 

[SonnyDaze]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
My friend was telling me about his dad's experiences in Vietnam and the concept of "Fragging" a friendly commander, such as "accidentally" rolling a grenade his way during a firefight. Apparently it was done (although very rarely) when the commander was incompetent and repeatedly put the unit at risk. How true this is I dont know, this is what he told me and apparnetly what his dad told him.

Yes fragging occured quite often during the Vietnam conflict and has even occured twice so far during the Iraq conflict.

But that doesn't have anything to do with this situation and these pilots. I believe the pilots made a professional error (i.e. they fvcked up). If they had doubts about the orange air panels on the vehicles they should have asked for a positive ID from the ground.