• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Thirteen years of Chechen agony

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
If you've ever wondered at the details of the ongoing war in Chechnya, here's your chance to consume the details of how it started in one 7-page article (according to one journalist).

I've chopped it up and summarized as best as I could. Particularly interesting? Watch how an alleged bombing attack on a Moscow apartment building is thwarted - after hundreds of deaths from similar attacks - leading Putin's popularity to soar skywards. Oddly, the suspects in the foiled attack are found to be carrying FSB (aka KGB) identification... At which point the attack is explained away as a drill. Yeah.

Thirteen years of Chechen agony

For 13 years, an on-again, off-again war has been waged in the tiny Russian republic of Chechnya.

The first thing to understand about the war in Chechnya--or, at least, the most recent war in Chechnya -- is that it was not caused by oil lust, despite the fact that the mountainous republic is so full of crude that exploding Russian carpet bombs have been known to kick up fountains of black, sticky goo.

Nor was it caused by the spread of militant Islam, even though a few radical Wahhabis had found their way to Chechnya by the second round of fighting. After a brief period of co-operation, these interlopers began to fight with the Chechens themselves, who practise a mystical form of Islam known as Sufism, and who, as such, frown on any interpretation of Islam that does not allow meditation, ecstatic dancing, the education of women and graveyard Koran readings.

No -- when a drunk and heart-diseased Boris Yeltsin ordered his troops into Grozny in 1994, he largely did it out of reflex. Chechnya was first plundered by Cossacks in the mid-1700s and, again, in the 1800s, when a notoriously psychopathic Russian general named Yermolev became famous for claiming that, "the only good Chechen is a dead Chechen." (Showing a typical degree of cultural sensitivity, the Russians later erected a statue to Yermolev smack-dab in the middle of Grozny.) The Chechens were then beset upon by the Red Army, the White Army and then Stalin himself, who dealt with the "Chechen problem" in a way that was nothing if not thorough: In 1943 he loaded every Chechen man, woman and child into cattle cars, and shipped them all to Kazakhstan.

Of course, the usual atrocities ensued: starvation, disease, rape, the dead propped up on their feet in stifling, overheated cars, etc. The Chechens were allowed to return to their homes in 1957, only to find them filled with ethnic Russians, who had moved south to take advantage of cheap land and energizing mountain views.

When the Soviet Union disassembled in 1991, Chechnya, not surprisingly, wished to join the departing fray. Moscow said no. It did, however, allow the republic a sort of parliamentary quasi-independence. The Chechens responded by voting in a corrupted maniac named Jokhar Dudayev who, ironically enough, had once been a general in the Russian army.

Chechnya's decline into villainy and organized crime was immediate. Government officials enriched themselves by illegally selling oil abroad at deflated prices. Grozny became a hub of black marketeering -- by 1992, between 100 and 150 unsanctioned flights carrying every sort of contraband landed daily at the Grozny airport. Chechen mafiosi raided cargo trains as though they were Wild West stagecoaches. Arms dealing became epidemic, as did banking scams, kidnapping and the production of counterfeit currencies.

On Nov. 29, 1994, Yeltsin ordered 40,000 Russian troops into Chechnya. What hadn't occurred to Yeltsin was that Dudayev had been waiting for this day since taking power in 1991. He had built up an army made up primarily of convicts who'd won their freedom with the fall of the Soviet empire, and had trained them well in guerrilla warfare. They were a formidable crew. Again and again, Chechen fighters lured tanks into traps, or fired upon lost soldiers from sniper nests, or lobbed grenades from ingeniously placed bunkers.

The Russian attacks, on the other hand, showed a lack of strategy, reconnaissance and reinforcement. At the very least, Yeltsin could have waited until summer, when his soldiers wouldn't have had to slog through knee-high mud and blinding fog. They retreated. Yeltsin, humiliated and furious, ordered hell to rain down.

Ahhh, the statistics of war. In Sarajevo at its worst, 3,500 detonations per day. In Grozny, that winter: 4,000 per hour. A city of 400,000 reduced to just 40,000. Food, clean water, electricity -- all gone. The oil derricks, toppled and useless. People survived, barely, by burning their furniture and boiling roots into soup.

New Yorker editor David Remnick, who visited Grozny once the shelling finally stopped, and whose reportage shapes my image of the destruction, described it this way: "The centre of Grozny -- a city centre as big, it seemed to me, as Baltimore -- was an utter ruin. Block after block, street after street. Every apartment building in sight. The Chekhov Library. The art museum. The oil and gas institute. Mosques and churches, hospitals and schools, a cognac factory, a nursing home, the sports stadium the indoor arena. Gutted, destroyed-- all of it."

Once the bombings stopped, helicopters swooped in and strafed whatever buildings were left standing -- Grozny soon looked like Kabul, albeit a Kabul made from grey Swiss cheese. The Russians set up "filtration camps" to weed out freedom fighters from the general population; predictably, these degenerated into torture camps. One, known infamously as Chernokosovo, greeted arrivals with a banner reading, "Welcome to Hell."

Throughout, the Kremlin referred to the campaign as a "police action" conducted to remove a few unsanctioned "military installations." Casualties, Yeltsin claimed, were "negligible."

In April, 1996, Jokhar Dudayev was killed by a Russian missile when his satellite phone gave away his location.

Even so, the Russians were exhausted. By August, Shamil Bashayev's forces had driven the Russian army out of Grozny, thus cementing the myth of Chechen indominability. By the end of that month, a peace deal had been brokered, and the first round of fighting ended. It was at this point that the war in Chechnya took a sharp turn toward the bleakly surreal.

In the space of 18 days the following month, four apartment buildings blew up in Russia-- two in Moscow, one in Volgadonsk and one in a town called Buinaksk. Deaths were in the several hundreds. All through the country, apartment dwellers took turns standing watch throughout the night, or left altogether to sleep in their dachas. The Russian government, naturally, blamed Chechen aggression.

Again, suspicions were ignited. Firstly, these buildings were not so much exploded as atomized. I have seen photos of the aftermath in Moscow, and the work was astounding in its sheer precision: apartment building, apartment building, eerily symmetrical gap where an apartment building once stood, apartment building, apartment building?

This, many thought, was well beyond the ability of a Chechen black-widow bomber, and had to have been the work of someone with access to both building plans and the luxury of planting the explosives at strategic points.

Also -- why would the Chechens do it? Why, when they'd already embarrassed the invading Slavs? Why, when they enjoyed a sort of parliamentary independence, and had been free to resume the drug running, arms dealing and illegal oil selling that had been so rudely interrupted by the first invasion? Fingers -- and this was before Putin shut down independent media in Russia -- pointed towards the FSB, the latest incarnation of the Russian secret police.

Then: On Sept. 22, 1999, in a city southwest of Moscow called Ryazan, a city bus driver noticed a white Lada parked in front of an apartment building at 14/16 Novosyelov St.

The police then made a natural decision: They called the FSB, which promptly arrived and hauled all the evidence away. That night, Russian news programs reported that the FSB and local police had saved the citizens of Ryazan from yet another terrorist bombing.

It was an explanation that might have stuck had something truly appalling (and indicative of FSB laziness) not occurred: The local police in Ryazan found the white Lada the next day, and managed to arrest two of the "terrorists." Both men, curiously enough, carried identification showing them to be FSB agents.

This time, the local police acted more astutely: They contacted the media, and the as-yet-to-be-shut-down press reported that the FSB had apparently been caught red-handed trying to bomb Russian citizens. On Sept. 24, FSB director Nikolai Patrushev exited the Kremlin, and gave reporters the "official" story. Yes, the FSB had placed those sacks in the basement of 14/16 Novosyelov St.. The bags, however, had contained sugar and not hexogen. The false reading from the gas analyzer had been caused by improper cleaning of the device. The same alertness test had been performed on many other cities, but only Ryazan had passed with such flying colours. He congratulated its people on their vigilance.

Shortly thereafter -- again, I am not making this up-- the FSB held an award ceremony in Ryazan, in which the bus driver was given a television set as a reward for quick thinking.

The following week, Russian forces invaded Chechnya, citing Islamist strikes in Moscow, Volgodonsk, Buinaksk and, of course, the Republic of Dagestan. Vladimir Putin, who had been appointed Yeltsin's presidential successor in August, and was jockeying to maintain that status, called it an "antiterrorist action."

Bafflingly, Putin's popularity soared.

The Russian army has occupied Grozny ever since. There has been more bombing and strafing, though mostly in outlaying towns viewed to be Islamist strongholds, there being precious little left to bomb or strafe left in Grozny. Some days, there is electricity in the capital. Some days, there is not. The university has re-opened, though its male population is noticeably meagre: Young men are routinely picked up during middle-of-the-night zachistki, a Russian word meaning, more or less, "mopping up."
 
But, But the Chechens are TERRORISTS. Isn't that what Bush agreed with to get Russian support for his war on terror (Iraq?)?
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
I have heard stories that the Chechen Rebels were trained by Al-Qaeda. Did you know that?

I did not. I can't claim to be an authority on this news topic at all - can't even say that what was written in this article is accurate. I'm hoping someone else can come in and fill in those details.
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: piasabird
I have heard stories that the Chechen Rebels were trained by Al-Qaeda. Did you know that?

I did not. I can't claim to be an authority on this news topic at all - can't even say that what was written in this article is accurate. I'm hoping someone else can come in and fill in those details.

Originally posted by: techs
But, But the Chechens are TERRORISTS. Isn't that what Bush agreed with to get Russian support for his war on terror (Iraq?)?

You know, I post threads like these highlighting issues in other parts of the world because I want people to get a glimpse of the news not centred around America or American involvement.

Yllus, this is a very good topic for discussion - but you're wrong to attack techs for his very useful pointing out of the problem with the Bush administration's line on 'terrorists'.

Situations like Chechnya are good for lessons about things like the dangers of simplistic 'anti-terrorist' propaganda, to make people consider the 'other side'.
 
Good read. I have heard of some of the Chechen situation, but not much. Sounds quite hellish. We always must remember how lucky we are to live in the West.
 
Chechnya separatists' problem is they have allied with Al Qaeda, which delegetimized their otherwise reasonable desire for independence.
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Chechnya separatists' problem is they have allied with Al Qaeda, which delegetimized their otherwise reasonable desire for independence.
qft

 
Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall Chechnya is going to be a place where a strategic oil pipeline will go through. And as such, is a must have location for the Russians.

And its a no brainer understanding why the Chechen people hate the Russians. I would think the Russians would be smart enough to start defusing the hatreds because Chechen terrorists stop at almost nothing. I also seem to recall Chechen terrorists were behind the ballet bombing and the butchery of Russian schoolchildren. And for that matter far predated the founding of Al-Quida.







 
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: senseamp
Chechnya separatists' problem is they have allied with Al Qaeda, which delegetimized their otherwise reasonable desire for independence.
qft

yep, many Chechen rebels have fought and died for Al Qaeda in Iraq. Fallujah was full of them.
 
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: senseamp
Chechnya separatists' problem is they have allied with Al Qaeda, which delegetimized their otherwise reasonable desire for independence.
qft

I'm not sure about th Chechens, but it is known that the Albanian Kossovars had good ties with Ossama bin laden, who supplied them with weaponry during the Yugoslav war.
 
Nice summary of Zakayev propaganda. Russia is a federation, I don't see other federal governments in the world approving independence on a whim. De facto Chechnya was independent between 1995 and 1999, they had their chance and blew it by military raid of Shamil (Pieces) Basayev to neighbouring Dagestan in attempt to create Islamic Khalifate on Caucasus. Bombings in Moscow were a trigger. If you believe FSB blew up the buildings, you should concur that US admin is behind 9-11, they also needed an excuse for offensive.
 
Originally posted by: Trianon If you believe FSB blew up the buildings, you should concur that US admin is behind 9-11, they also needed an excuse for offensive.


There are plenty indications to support such point of view. The problem is governments systematicaly shun scrutiny on their activities. We will never know if the FSB was indeed running a public readiness probe or actually framing the chechens. Whenever something happens involving the secret services worldwide, they just tell us to mind our business and don't mess with matters of national (or inter-national) security. They put the "conspiracy theory" tag on all allegations about maleficence and shrug them off.

How can you blindly trust the government when you see it twitching upon the slightest hint of accountability?
 
Originally posted by: KAZANI
How can you blindly trust the government when you see it twitching upon the slightest hint of accountability?

I don't trust the government, especially Russian government, but knowing Beresovsky and his origins and his schemeing, I trust even less the statements from his camp, that's all. Between 1995 and 1999 Ichkeriya was a nest for drug dealers, all sorts of financial fraud schemes, human trafficing, kidnapping and slavery, extermination of ethnic Russian population living in Chechnya, and terrorist training grounds. E.g. check number of Chechens among "vory v zakony" of Russian mafia( WIKI). That's a lot for small nation of only 1 mln. Of course all this was going on among civilians, which by the way have largely still live by their "laws of the mountains". Like in Iraq, general population was still aiding and assisting the mujahideen. There were many instances when Russian troops would be stopped on the march by entire village of women and old men and kids only to be ambushed from the flank and rear by rebels. Ask anyone who ever met Chechen in person, especially when there is more than one of them in the company, would confirm that original "gortsy" treat foreigners as subhumans. They don't blink an eye using civilians as human shields and carry out attacks without consideration for civilian casualties.
I can carry on, but the point I am trying to make is that the length and severity of Chechen campaign is mostly the fault of mujahideen and their supporters in Chechnya, who most of the time are paid very well by foreign sponsors for this "Holy War". Thanks God, now many Chechens understood the pointlessness to carry on the same thing and prefer to live in peace.
 
Originally posted by: Trianon
I don't trust the government, especially Russian government, but knowing Beresovsky and his origins and his schemeing, I trust even less the statements from his camp, that's all. Between 1995 and 1999 Ichkeriya was a nest for drug dealers, all sorts of financial fraud schemes, human trafficing, kidnapping and slavery, extermination of ethnic Russian population living in Chechnya, and terrorist training grounds. E.g. check number of Chechens among "vory v zakony" of Russian mafia( WIKI). That's a lot for small nation of only 1 mln. Of course all this was going on among civilians, which by the way have largely still live by their "laws of the mountains". Like in Iraq, general population was still aiding and assisting the mujahideen. There were many instances when Russian troops would be stopped on the march by entire village of women and old men and kids only to be ambushed from the flank and rear by rebels. Ask anyone who ever met Chechen in person, especially when there is more than one of them in the company, would confirm that original "gortsy" treat foreigners as subhumans. They don't blink an eye using civilians as human shields and carry out attacks without consideration for civilian casualties.
I can carry on, but the point I am trying to make is that the length and severity of Chechen campaign is mostly the fault of mujahideen and their supporters in Chechnya, who most of the time are paid very well by foreign sponsors for this "Holy War". Thanks God, now many Chechens understood the pointlessness to carry on the same thing and prefer to live in peace.


First of all I am not sure which Beresovsky you are refering to (Boris?) and what does he have to do with the russian secret agents planting bombs to frame the chechen struggle. But anyway, what you have not addressed is the hopelessness we, the ordinary folks find ourselves in when trying to probe state machinations.

On the mafia point:
You can call the Chechens uncouth and ruthless all you want but that does not change the fact that any man of any race can be equally unscrupulous, this includes Russians. What great evil manifested itself through the obliteration of Grozny?

When we see the islamic agenda behind the chechen rebelion are we discerning enough to also notice that it is built upon the grievance caused by the tyranny of russian hegemony. It's like a chicken and egg loop.
 
Originally posted by: cliftonite
So how long do you think your vacation should be? 😉

I imagine it shouldn't warrant a vacation at all, since the rule against personal attacks continues to be winked at in this forum area, and the other part of Member and Posting Guidelines #1 - "purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd" - was the cause for the comment.

Until then, just like everyone else, I'll continue to abide by the unwritten rules for this forum area. Of course, if the comment was not meant to derail the thread and the poster simply mistakenly read "Russia" as "United States" and "Chechnya" as "Iraq", then I'll wholeheartedly apologize. And recommend a trip to the optometrist.
 
Originally posted by: KAZANI
First of all I am not sure which Beresovsky you are refering to (Boris?) and what does he have to do with the russian secret agents planting bombs to frame the chechen struggle. But anyway, what you have not addressed is the hopelessness we, the ordinary folks find ourselves in when trying to probe state machinations.

On the mafia point:
You can call the Chechens uncouth and ruthless all you want but that does not change the fact that any man of any race can be equally unscrupulous, this includes Russians. What great evil manifested itself through the obliteration of Grozny?

When we see the islamic agenda behind the chechen rebelion are we discerning enough to also notice that it is built upon the grievance caused by the tyranny of russian hegemony. It's like a chicken and egg loop.

BAB(Boris Abramovitch Berezovsky) is the one behind the statements in media about FSB being caught planting bombs, supposedly Litvinenko was involved in popularizing that idea.
I accept you statement, that ordinary citizen have hard time probing state machinations, but IMHO FSB blowing up buildings with civilians is about as likely as the other scenario I listed.

Grozny was obliterated because to this day there is no way to remove hostiles from large city safely, as was shown in Fallujah. Before the attack Russians did set up exit points for civilians.

Last statement - you could make this argument about independance for any small people in federations around the world, why should Russia be special and obligate Chechens, when you don't see this happening anywhere else.
 
Back
Top