I am thinking of going ahead and beating all competitors to my area and starting a ISP in my area. I am not sure what all i need and what i should use for this? There is no cable, or dsl, or wireless service available in my area so what would i need? A t1 to backbone me to sum1? or higher? what hardware? and price guestimate?
Thinking of starting my own ISP what all is needed? What HARDWARE is needed?
- Thread starter MikeMike
- Start date
Do a search in the networking forum, its been asked before.
A lot of it depends on what kind of services you plan on offering. You will need authentication servers, connections to the users, connections to the net, relatively high end networking gear, UPS, generator, location, etc. Its not a small undertaking...
A lot of it depends on what kind of services you plan on offering. You will need authentication servers, connections to the users, connections to the net, relatively high end networking gear, UPS, generator, location, etc. Its not a small undertaking...
its only for like a small town less than 1000 people possible. But what all would i need for authentication servers? Generator wouldnt be that hard. Connection to the net would be like a t1? connection to the users via wireless? or copper? location???????
If you're going to do dialup, one T1 is fine for that many users. If you're going to to broadband, you'll either need something faster, or you'll have to get a cacheing server going. That's not cheap, we looked into it once. I still don't believe a caching server + a single t1 would be enough for 10-20 people doing broadband.
Be prepared to shell out a lot of money and be out that money for a while. It takes some time to get customers, and it takes a lot of customers to turn a profit. I would be surprised if there wasn't an AOL or Earthlink access number there, or at least a local call away. It's tough to get people to switch to a new ISP, especially with AOL.
Edit: You could always do RentAPOP too, but usually if there's a company selling those in your area, it means someone is already providing access out there.
authentication: Something like radius
a t1 would be fine for dialup, but you probably want a redundant connection
You could do wireless, or dialup, maybe even dsl. The hardware is different depending on which one you choose.
a t1 would be fine for dialup, but you probably want a redundant connection
You could do wireless, or dialup, maybe even dsl. The hardware is different depending on which one you choose.
Since there is no reason to answer this in pm (it defeats the purpose of a board like this), Ill post it here:
For that many users a t3 is out of the question. You dont need 45(?)mbit/s for 20 people. It would be nice
, but the price would be very prohibitive. I dont have numbers, but I would say several thousand per month. A t1 can be had for under $1000USD/month in some areas. That is 1.5mbit/s. Not the greatest, but its better than 56kbit. You would probably want 2 t1's for redundancy (dont use the same isp!), but if your users understand that stuff happens, it wouldnt be necessary to start. You will also need all of the hardware that goes along with that, ie router.
Limiting bandwidth can be expensive. There are few cheap ways to do this. One I know of though, is ALTQ. It will run on OpenBSD and problably linux and FreeBSD. It would take a little work to get it configured well, but it is a solution.
Look at getting server machines. Some Dell Power Edges or equivelant. If you want it to be cheaper, build twice as many machines as you will need, or atleast keep plenty of spare parts around. A nice support contract is the best way to go, but sometimes you just cant. Plan for the worst though. Redundancy. I recommend p3 systems because they are basically tried and true, but most any system with quality hardware will work well.
There are free RADUIS packages out there, but I have never used them (or any RADUIS system for that matter). There are other alternatives out there too, but I cant think of them off the top of my head. You can get hardware to do this for you, or setup a small linux/BSD machine to do it cheaply.
For a mailserver, you would probably want SCSI raid, or atleast HARDWARE ATA raid. SCSI is preferable, but with that small number of users a good 3ware card doing raid 5 should work fine on a Linux/BSD system running sendmail/postfix/exim/qmail.
Load all systems with as much ram as you can. This is more important than raw cpu power (almost always is).
A good cisco switch would be perfect. Managed switches would be your friend. Cisco aireonet(sp?) wireless devices would be the best bet. They are more expensive, but they are considered some of the best wireless equipment out there.
Dont forget about a secure location for everything, webserver if you want to have a site or offer sites to your clients, and maybe a ticketing system to help keep track of problems (#1 problem with a lot of places is communication, which includes logging all changes/fixes). Also redundant power setups can be nice. Not to mention people to answer the phones and monitor your setup 24/7.
phew! Thats a start for you
For that many users a t3 is out of the question. You dont need 45(?)mbit/s for 20 people. It would be nice
, but the price would be very prohibitive. I dont have numbers, but I would say several thousand per month. A t1 can be had for under $1000USD/month in some areas. That is 1.5mbit/s. Not the greatest, but its better than 56kbit. You would probably want 2 t1's for redundancy (dont use the same isp!), but if your users understand that stuff happens, it wouldnt be necessary to start. You will also need all of the hardware that goes along with that, ie router.Limiting bandwidth can be expensive. There are few cheap ways to do this. One I know of though, is ALTQ. It will run on OpenBSD and problably linux and FreeBSD. It would take a little work to get it configured well, but it is a solution.
Look at getting server machines. Some Dell Power Edges or equivelant. If you want it to be cheaper, build twice as many machines as you will need, or atleast keep plenty of spare parts around. A nice support contract is the best way to go, but sometimes you just cant. Plan for the worst though. Redundancy. I recommend p3 systems because they are basically tried and true, but most any system with quality hardware will work well.
There are free RADUIS packages out there, but I have never used them (or any RADUIS system for that matter). There are other alternatives out there too, but I cant think of them off the top of my head. You can get hardware to do this for you, or setup a small linux/BSD machine to do it cheaply.
For a mailserver, you would probably want SCSI raid, or atleast HARDWARE ATA raid. SCSI is preferable, but with that small number of users a good 3ware card doing raid 5 should work fine on a Linux/BSD system running sendmail/postfix/exim/qmail.
Load all systems with as much ram as you can. This is more important than raw cpu power (almost always is).
A good cisco switch would be perfect. Managed switches would be your friend. Cisco aireonet(sp?) wireless devices would be the best bet. They are more expensive, but they are considered some of the best wireless equipment out there.
Dont forget about a secure location for everything, webserver if you want to have a site or offer sites to your clients, and maybe a ticketing system to help keep track of problems (#1 problem with a lot of places is communication, which includes logging all changes/fixes). Also redundant power setups can be nice. Not to mention people to answer the phones and monitor your setup 24/7.
phew! Thats a start for you
Doesn't really take that much if you are doing for a relatively small user base. Me and a friend started one back in 94. We started with (2) 30 port Livingston Portmaster PM23's ($600), 60 analog external 56k modems ($3000), we had the computers, we ended up using 3 linux machines, one for radius and user accounts, one for web space, and the last as a secondary dns and backup. We ran it all off of a frac T1 (512) for about 1 year and had a userbase of about 900 without any major problems. Eventually we grew and were offered to be bought by constant.com back in 98. If I had a chance I would not do it again, there is too much competition around here now, but it sounds like in your situation you may have a good chance to make it work.
what about just building my own servers since it would be cheaper? Also can i get sum links to sum of this stuff? Also i would have to depend on my parents for some of this stuff? Also what would i have to do for billing? what places would i have to file with for the proper stuff?
Yes, but remember, if something breaks you have to fix it ASAP.
cisco.com
google.com
paypal?
Check the local laws, zoning commission, FCC.
what is a good dual p3 mobo? Lets start talking prices for everything i need would like dual 120gb SE runnin raid be good for the email servers? i dont know how 10-20 ppl could go over 80 gigs of mail! thats from 12-6 gigs of mail perperson plus what i need for. Also what does the authentication server need? And maybe when i get a medium base i will ask them if they want webspace and ill put together a server for that. Then we need cost of t1 ~1000 a month. plus networking and whatever else i need.
That would be more than enough space for the mail server. Restricting the users to something like 5mB/email account would be a good idea. Make it a little larger if you have the space, but dont go overboard.
Look for serverworks chipsets for dual p3's. They're usually around $300 (if you can find them significantly cheaper LET ME KNOW
), but they are supposed to be worth it.Since I havnet done any research into the authencation server my response is purely uninformed speculation. I dont think you would need a whole lot of power for that machine. It should just accept username/password and compare it to a database. The 233 could probably do it, but I would throw in a new disk or two (faster disks are always better
). It really depends on the software you plan on using. If you want a linux/BSD solution, do a search on freshmeat.net for some software (like radius or authentication). The documentation or mailing lists should have something about hardware or atleast give you an idea of how hardware intensive this type of thing is.I did forget dns servers. But those can be pretty old machines (the 233 would be perfect if you splurged on ram).
okay in about 30 min ill have up what i think might be neccesary for this computer wise and can u guys tell me what it looks like?
ok here we go(sry bout cut and pastes it was easiest). I am confused on what i would need such as routers/switches/hubs/cabeling/fixed transponders for wirless access.
What about the following for comp setups
Part Description
Price (ea.) Web Price (ea.) Qty. You Save Line Total
Part No. CT3272Y265 256MB, 184-pin DIMM.
Upgrade for Tyan S2460 Tiger MP System $98.99 $89.09 10% $534.54
Part No. CT32M64S4D8E
256MB, 168-pin DIMM. Upgrade for UNSPECIFIED System $54.99 $49.49 10% $148.47 (for my 233? is this the right memory im not sure what it needs.)
Cart Total: $683.01
Estimated Sales Tax: $?.??
Shipping Charge: $?.??
Estimated Total Due Crucial: $683.01
Thats memory is that enough????????????
Cases PC - ATX - Full Tower
Superpower Zephyr KS-101 400 Watts Power Supply Full tower ATX 6x5.25" 2X3.5",1x3.5"(Hidden) total of 9bay, one fan, 2nd extra fan is available-OPTIONAL, AMD Approved & Pentium 4 Ready One Year Warranty
N82E16811118009 $78.00
$78.00
CD ROM
Lite On 52x Cd Rom - Model LTN-526 -RETAILE-IDE Interface, support all PIO, DMA, Ultra DMA modes. Innovated SMART-X® to get the fastest CD-DAE/VCD data extraction speed by request. RETAIL Package with manu, driver, cable and screws.
N82E16827101201 $27.00
$27.00
Controller, Panels, Add-On Cards, etc.
HighPoint Controller Card RocketRaid133 Retail The RocketRaid133 Host Adapter is a dual channel IDE controller card designed for use with ATA133 hard disk drives.
Specifications:
Host side interface: 32bit/33MHz PCI UltraDMA/ATA133
ATA-133 hard drives, backward compatible (ATA100,66, 33)
OS: Windows 98/ME, Windows NT4.0, Win2000, Linux (Turbo, Caldera, RedHat, SuSE)
N82E16816115003 $74.00
$74.00
Floppy Drives
SONY 1.44MB 3.5 INCH INTERNAL FDD DRIVE - OEM Model MPF920-Z
N82E16821103109 $8.00
$8.00
Hard Drives - IDE
WD WESTERN DIGITAL EIDE HARD DRIVE 40GB 7200RPM MODEL # WD400BB -CAVIAR OEM, DRIVE ONLY *****For the 233*****
$73.00
WD WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 80GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD800JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY
$112.00
$336.00
Keyboards - English
KB-2000 107-KEY WIN98 PS/2 KEYBOARD RETAIL BOX IBM N82E16823131100 $3.50
$3.50
Monitors
CTX VL510 15 INCH (13.8inch Viewable) MONITOR - $93.00
$93.00
Motherboards - Server
TYAN Tiger MP (S2460) K7 AMD 760MP 200/266 MHz FSB DDR DUAL PGA462 SYSTEM for Althon MP ATX MOTHERBOARD - RETAIL PROCESSOR
N82E16813151103 $169.00
$169.00
Mouse
Designer-Plus Scrolling Internet Easy+ Mouse PS2 connectors two buttons, High Precision Input Device. 600DPI High Resolution, for IBM PC & Compatible. Compatible with Microsoft Mouse. Easy to use Plug & Play. Retail Box. Special Deal **LIMIT 5 PER CUSTOMER!**
N82E16826129001 $.69
$.69
Processors - AMD Athlon Thunderbird, XP, MP
2 AMD PALOMINO MP1200 1.2GHz 266MHz FSB MP PROCESSOR
Specifications:
CPU: 1.2 GHz
Type: 1200 MP Palomino DUAL CAPABLE SERVER CHIP
Cache: 256K
BUS: 266MHz
Socket A (PGA) OEM (Processor Only)
N82E16819103200 $78.00
$156.00
Software - OS
2 Microsoft Windows XP Professional - OEM Full Version Disk ONLY, no Manual *Must be Purchased w/Hardware!!*
N82E16837102009 $139.00
$278.00
Video Cards
1 ATI RADEON 32M SDR 4X AGPPowered by the ATI RADEON graphics processing unit (GPU) Featuring ATIs CHARISMA ENGINE, PIXEL TAPESTRY and VIDEO IMMERSION technologies - NO TV OUT(* This card come with Chipset heat sink fan unlike the LE version. *)
N82E16814102163 $37.00
$37.00
Subtotal » $1,333.19
Shipping and Handling Charge » 72.91
Grand Total » $ 1,406.10
What else would i need for my compteR? What type of sooftware and at what costs? Please answer the questoins above. T1 per say is 1000 a month from sumwhere. I am also missing how i actually get them onto the internet? should the t1 be supplied by another isp or what? Please help i am very confused but would like to get broadband out in my area asap and for cheap
Is windows 2k? or do i need nt or 2k server?
What about the following for comp setups
Part Description
Price (ea.) Web Price (ea.) Qty. You Save Line Total
Part No. CT3272Y265 256MB, 184-pin DIMM.
Upgrade for Tyan S2460 Tiger MP System $98.99 $89.09 10% $534.54
Part No. CT32M64S4D8E
256MB, 168-pin DIMM. Upgrade for UNSPECIFIED System $54.99 $49.49 10% $148.47 (for my 233? is this the right memory im not sure what it needs.)
Cart Total: $683.01
Estimated Sales Tax: $?.??
Shipping Charge: $?.??
Estimated Total Due Crucial: $683.01
Thats memory is that enough????????????
Cases PC - ATX - Full Tower
Superpower Zephyr KS-101 400 Watts Power Supply Full tower ATX 6x5.25" 2X3.5",1x3.5"(Hidden) total of 9bay, one fan, 2nd extra fan is available-OPTIONAL, AMD Approved & Pentium 4 Ready One Year Warranty
N82E16811118009 $78.00
$78.00
CD ROM
Lite On 52x Cd Rom - Model LTN-526 -RETAILE-IDE Interface, support all PIO, DMA, Ultra DMA modes. Innovated SMART-X® to get the fastest CD-DAE/VCD data extraction speed by request. RETAIL Package with manu, driver, cable and screws.
N82E16827101201 $27.00
$27.00
Controller, Panels, Add-On Cards, etc.
HighPoint Controller Card RocketRaid133 Retail The RocketRaid133 Host Adapter is a dual channel IDE controller card designed for use with ATA133 hard disk drives.
Specifications:
Host side interface: 32bit/33MHz PCI UltraDMA/ATA133
ATA-133 hard drives, backward compatible (ATA100,66, 33)
OS: Windows 98/ME, Windows NT4.0, Win2000, Linux (Turbo, Caldera, RedHat, SuSE)
N82E16816115003 $74.00
$74.00
Floppy Drives
SONY 1.44MB 3.5 INCH INTERNAL FDD DRIVE - OEM Model MPF920-Z
N82E16821103109 $8.00
$8.00
Hard Drives - IDE
WD WESTERN DIGITAL EIDE HARD DRIVE 40GB 7200RPM MODEL # WD400BB -CAVIAR OEM, DRIVE ONLY *****For the 233*****
$73.00
WD WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 80GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD800JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY
$112.00
$336.00
Keyboards - English
KB-2000 107-KEY WIN98 PS/2 KEYBOARD RETAIL BOX IBM N82E16823131100 $3.50
$3.50
Monitors
CTX VL510 15 INCH (13.8inch Viewable) MONITOR - $93.00
$93.00
Motherboards - Server
TYAN Tiger MP (S2460) K7 AMD 760MP 200/266 MHz FSB DDR DUAL PGA462 SYSTEM for Althon MP ATX MOTHERBOARD - RETAIL PROCESSOR
N82E16813151103 $169.00
$169.00
Mouse
Designer-Plus Scrolling Internet Easy+ Mouse PS2 connectors two buttons, High Precision Input Device. 600DPI High Resolution, for IBM PC & Compatible. Compatible with Microsoft Mouse. Easy to use Plug & Play. Retail Box. Special Deal **LIMIT 5 PER CUSTOMER!**
N82E16826129001 $.69
$.69
Processors - AMD Athlon Thunderbird, XP, MP
2 AMD PALOMINO MP1200 1.2GHz 266MHz FSB MP PROCESSOR
Specifications:
CPU: 1.2 GHz
Type: 1200 MP Palomino DUAL CAPABLE SERVER CHIP
Cache: 256K
BUS: 266MHz
Socket A (PGA) OEM (Processor Only)
N82E16819103200 $78.00
$156.00
Software - OS
2 Microsoft Windows XP Professional - OEM Full Version Disk ONLY, no Manual *Must be Purchased w/Hardware!!*
N82E16837102009 $139.00
$278.00
Video Cards
1 ATI RADEON 32M SDR 4X AGPPowered by the ATI RADEON graphics processing unit (GPU) Featuring ATIs CHARISMA ENGINE, PIXEL TAPESTRY and VIDEO IMMERSION technologies - NO TV OUT(* This card come with Chipset heat sink fan unlike the LE version. *)
N82E16814102163 $37.00
$37.00
Subtotal » $1,333.19
Shipping and Handling Charge » 72.91
Grand Total » $ 1,406.10
What else would i need for my compteR? What type of sooftware and at what costs? Please answer the questoins above. T1 per say is 1000 a month from sumwhere. I am also missing how i actually get them onto the internet? should the t1 be supplied by another isp or what? Please help i am very confused but would like to get broadband out in my area asap and for cheap
Is windows 2k? or do i need nt or 2k server?
A server OS. Win2k server would be fine if you can get the software you want for it at a reasonable price.
Ok i cant find the win2k server ne where quickly on pricewatch with my 2.64 connection so could i get a little help? I would only need 2 liscenses as of right now
what about nt server since it is much cheaper?
edit such as this one
BackOffice Small Business Server v4.0 w/ 10 CAL (Includes NT Server 4.0 & SQL Server 6.5) (OEM) $329.00
Is this any good?
edit such as this one
BackOffice Small Business Server v4.0 w/ 10 CAL (Includes NT Server 4.0 & SQL Server 6.5) (OEM) $329.00
Is this any good?
If you're starting fresh, I'd really recomend Win2K over NT, as NT really is showing it's age.
Back Office Server is, as the name implies, a Back Office System, that is, it includes NT, Exchange, and some other tools, not really what you'd need to start an ISP.
And 2K is significally more stable than NT, as well as a better performer in many cases.
If you want good free OS's that will do it, look into the BSD's or Linux.
Who is going to be handling the technical part of this operation? You? Or do you plan to have someone working for you?
If I were you, I'd see if I could get a skilled network technican working at least parttime, unless you considder yourself a skilled network technican.
Back Office Server is, as the name implies, a Back Office System, that is, it includes NT, Exchange, and some other tools, not really what you'd need to start an ISP.
And 2K is significally more stable than NT, as well as a better performer in many cases.
If you want good free OS's that will do it, look into the BSD's or Linux.
Who is going to be handling the technical part of this operation? You? Or do you plan to have someone working for you?
If I were you, I'd see if I could get a skilled network technican working at least parttime, unless you considder yourself a skilled network technican.
i dont know how hard it would all be i might be able to do it my self and get some experience myself. But the problem im running into is bandwidth vs. price. Say i get 2 t1 lines Thats a possibility of 3750 divided by 10 usersis 37.5 k if im gettin my stuff right. plus 2k$ a month for the 2 t1's is 200$ a month per user!!! thats crazy i would need more people but the bandwidth would suffer again assuming my numbers and equations are right. Throw in a 3rd and prices rise but so does bandwidth. Right now i know i am the only one who could possibly do this in my area. but i dont have that big of a corner on the market to charge 200$ per month for sub par internet service.
P.S. just fyi im 16 dont take this into account however this is just pre stuff if i get the ok from my parents i will send out flyers seeing how many people are interested in this and that might decide if i go through and with what connections
P.S. just fyi im 16 dont take this into account however this is just pre stuff if i get the ok from my parents i will send out flyers seeing how many people are interested in this and that might decide if i go through and with what connections
If your looking for some advice, try these links...
ISP Planet guide to starting an ISP
How to start an ISP Guide (Price is $50)
Rather than build this thing up from the ground, you may want to look into companies like this: Start your ISP.net
Lastly... before you start odering equipment, be sure that you fully understand what you are getting into. The ISP market is very cut throat.
CH2
ISP Planet guide to starting an ISP
How to start an ISP Guide (Price is $50)
Rather than build this thing up from the ground, you may want to look into companies like this: Start your ISP.net
Lastly... before you start odering equipment, be sure that you fully understand what you are getting into. The ISP market is very cut throat.
CH2
Wireless?
In that case you need to contact the FCC and find out if frequencies are available in your area. Many providers / carriers have pre-purchased the spectrum in most regions of the country (US, and most other countries). You cannot use unlicensed spectrum (legally).
If you get your application in tomorrow (assuming that spectrum is available), you can probably have your license in as early as two years from now.
There are also a few federal, state and (maybe) municipal agencies that you'll have to get permissions, licences, and orders of regulation from. As a CLEC/ISP you will (almost certainly) operate as a regulated company.
Good luck, wear your a$$-armour....
Scott
In that case you need to contact the FCC and find out if frequencies are available in your area. Many providers / carriers have pre-purchased the spectrum in most regions of the country (US, and most other countries). You cannot use unlicensed spectrum (legally).
If you get your application in tomorrow (assuming that spectrum is available), you can probably have your license in as early as two years from now.
There are also a few federal, state and (maybe) municipal agencies that you'll have to get permissions, licences, and orders of regulation from. As a CLEC/ISP you will (almost certainly) operate as a regulated company.
Good luck, wear your a$$-armour....
Scott
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that T1 lines have multiple channels (the one I heard about was 24 channel). Therefore, up to 24 users connected to your server could have 1.5 megabit transfer rates independantly.
Again, I don't know much about this stuff, so please inform me if I'm mistaken.
Again, I don't know much about this stuff, so please inform me if I'm mistaken.
A T1 has a total of 1.544 megabit of bandwidth that may or may not, depending on function, be delivered as 24 channels of 64K or 56K each. One channel may act as the signalling channel (for all the other channels), reducing the number of bearer channels to 23. If all 24 channels are used, then 8K from each channel is used for signalling (channel associated signalling - CAS), reducing the per-channel bandwidth to 56K each.
Channelized T1s are usually used for voice or dial-in/out, or aggregation of fractional bandwidth from multiple locations (i.e., ten remote offices, each with 128K delivered to corporate HQ on a single T1).
The typical data T1 is unchannelized, delivered as a single "1.5 meg" chunk of bandwidth.
Frame Relay can be delivered either way. Point-to-Point can be delivered either way. Most routers will allow delivery either way, depending on the options and specific purpose of the router and T1/Frac T1.
ATM T1s use different rules for available bandwidth/signalling.
(Some details omitted or genetically altered for brevity)
FWIW
Scott
Channelized T1s are usually used for voice or dial-in/out, or aggregation of fractional bandwidth from multiple locations (i.e., ten remote offices, each with 128K delivered to corporate HQ on a single T1).
The typical data T1 is unchannelized, delivered as a single "1.5 meg" chunk of bandwidth.
Frame Relay can be delivered either way. Point-to-Point can be delivered either way. Most routers will allow delivery either way, depending on the options and specific purpose of the router and T1/Frac T1.
ATM T1s use different rules for available bandwidth/signalling.
(Some details omitted or genetically altered for brevity)
FWIW
Scott
oh yeah and if ya don't want to pay Microshaft an assload of money for MS advanced server, get ya a copy of redhat or mandrak linux, they both have everything u will need software wise and its less then 200 bucks for either
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