Thinking of going to water cooling

[thecoolnessrune]

Im going to get an HTPC and im thinking about using watercooling to cool it since i want a small case and dont want to have to deal with a tiny CPU fan buzzing away. So what I need is silence... as much as possible.. I want to put the everything in one or more loops. CPU (Thinking 63-6400 overclocked on just stock volts), GPU (Thinking a X1900 256), Northbridge, and the harddrive. So I was thinking:

Should I use multiple loops?

Would a 3 fan Black Ice radiator be enough or would I need more then one rad?

Is there a quiet pump available that could push all this or would I be needing multiple pumps for multiple loops?

The last concern is power. In an HTPC case I have no room for rads. Which means I'll have to mount it externally. Obviously that poses a problem for fans since they are 12V How do you guys get past that? Thank you for the help guys, I am sorta noobish to all this.

 

[Noubourne]

Well you won't need a 3x rad for that rig. You can probably get away with a single Thermochill 160, in fact, based on the amount of overclocking you're doing (almost none).

You don't put a hard drive in a loop like that unless you have serious temp issues. I would just slap a fan on it if temps are high (I doubt they are). Pump size is going to be as much an issue there as noise. An HTPC is really not a good place for water cooling.

If anything, I'd look at undervolting an older cooler CPU (Athlon 64 3000+ maybe?), or grabbing a 65w low TDP CPU and just running it at stock volts or undervolt it and go passive. X1900 - also uber overkill for HTPC.

If I were building an HTPC, I'd use none of those parts, and I certainly wouldn't water cool it. I'd go as passive as possible. You should be looking at HDCP capable vid card with HDMI out and passively cooled. I think there are a couple 7600 GS's out there in that category - not sure haven't looked that closely.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Well the fact is I didn't know how to passively cool it well enough. A Thermalright HR-01 will in no way fit in almost any known HTPC case. Additionally, a 25-28 dB fan most likely wouldn't have the CFM necessary to keep the CPU and GPU on passive. I had thought later and decided that I wont need the HD cooler. But it was still the fact that I dont know of any way to passive cool an HTPC.

Thats why I have thought about watercooling. Effective cooling with small blocks.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Im going to get an HTPC and im thinking about using watercooling to cool it since i want a small case and dont want to have to deal with a tiny CPU fan buzzing away. So what I need is silence... as much as possible.. I want to put the everything in one or more loops. CPU (Thinking 63-6400 overclocked on just stock volts), GPU (Thinking a X1900 256), Northbridge, and the harddrive. So I was thinking:

Should I use multiple loops?

Would a 3 fan Black Ice radiator be enough or would I need more then one rad?

Is there a quiet pump available that could push all this or would I be needing multiple pumps for multiple loops?

The last concern is power. In an HTPC case I have no room for rads. Which means I'll have to mount it externally. Obviously that poses a problem for fans since they are 12V How do you guys get past that? Thank you for the help guys, I am sorta noobish to all this.

Yes a 120x3 would be more then enough however good luck fitting it on a HTPC case. U need to be a uber modder to do that.

CPU(non storm) + 1 GPU + 1 Radiator = 1 pump fine. u want a DDC MP350 class instead of a D5 because of the smaller foot print. Add a GPU and/or NB drop in 1 more pump. Add a HD Cooler ur gonna need another pump.

Dont bother cooling the HD. It can be done with very quiet undervolted fans. And HD waterblocks can get messy IMO.

U cant Mount a Radiator inside a HTPC. ROFL As i was trying to state, unless ur a PRO Modder. And

WATERPUMPS MAKE NO NOISE. Get with the new technology people. They make far less noise then a Yate Loon. (D5 Liangs and DDC) the DDCs emite a slight winggg noise but u cant hear it unless ur dayam close.

STOP SPREADING RUMORS THAT PUMPS ARE LOUD. The only loud ones are the old ones are the extreme ones like an IWAKI class.

Also u must be out of your mind to put a X1900 in a HTPC. For one it doesnt need something that powerful because playing a game on a 42inch plasma makes u kinda dizzy after 2-3 hours. Also, the Card is soooooooo dayam long ur gonna have tube problems. TRUST ME!

How ive seen radiators mounted on HTPC cases are 120x2. U most likely want to go with a slim style like a thermochil or blackice GT Stealth class. The guy basically dremeled the side of his htpc case, put the fans on the inside of the case, the radiator on the outside. so basically like this

<radiator> I <fan> I = metal side

I believe his exact comments was something like... 1/2ID tubes were too difficult from keeping kinking so i had to use 3/8th. Dont expect super cooling but its far quieter and cooler then AIR. Also his videocard was a 7900GT, something a bit smaller and cooler.


Anyhow my mediabox is a bit overkill but i decided to keep it in a full ATX case. My design uses 2 D5 Liangs with an Apogee and 120x2 +120x1 BI GT Steath. 2DD Maze4 GPU coolers to help with 7900GTs in SLI.

Ambient 65F on idle

How much noise does she make?? ummm reciently my 90mm rear HD cage fan has been emitting a slight ting noise (need to replace it). But thats THE ONLY THING i can hear from my desk, and its dead quiet when im watching movies on it from my bed.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

As I had stated, I have no intention of putting the rad inside the case. I would much rather mount it externally if I can figure out how to get power to the fans. The reason I wanted to watercool as much as possible was because I wanted to forget about case fans entirely or otherwise go with a very quiet Nexus 120mm. I didn't know if that would have enough cooling capability to keep a HD and a GPU cool, thats why I didn't think I could use a passive card.

I thought the X1900 for the video decoding capability as all of my media is in h.264 MPEG4 and its a good price. However im open to alternatives. The games would be played at a mere 800x600 with settings turned as high as possible so I know I could go with less in that area.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
As I had stated, I have no intention of putting the rad inside the case. I would much rather mount it externally if I can figure out how to get power to the fans. The reason I wanted to watercool as much as possible was because I wanted to forget about case fans entirely or otherwise go with a very quiet Nexus 120mm. I didn't know if that would have enough cooling capability to keep a HD and a GPU cool, thats why I didn't think I could use a passive card.

I thought the X1900 for the video decoding capability as all of my media is in h.264 MPEG4 and its a good price. However im open to alternatives. The games would be played at a mere 800x600 with settings turned as high as possible so I know I could go with less in that area.

I told you, the only way possible of mounting a radiator in a HTPC would be to sandwitch the side pannel with the fan and the radiator. U need to drill 2 X 1 inch dia holes for the inlet and outlet, and 2x 4 3/4 for the fans. the tubes would be routed in the inside and the DDC would be small enough to fit as the pump.

The only HTPC case u can install it in would be a full size one, somewhere around the lines of Silverstone LS series. or is it the LC? And the Zalman one. These are all kinda pricey.

Stay away from TT's Htpc cases as my friends said the PCI cards have issues mounting.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

i believe i had seen somewhere the ability to use a PCI metal bracket that had nipples on each side that you could use to go from the loop to the outside, then to a radiator that you stuck somewhere, and then back to the loop. That was what I had intended to do. I dont want the radiator in the case period..

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
i believe i had seen somewhere the ability to use a PCI metal bracket that had nipples on each side that you could use to go from the loop to the outside, then to a radiator that you stuck somewhere, and then back to the loop. That was what I had intended to do. I dont want the radiator in the case period..

oh.... you want a external unit then.... you can either custom one completely down to the rad box or you can get a astek one. Your gonna need some quick connects if you custom it to make it easier to move around.

Yes there are PCI pass though's but you'll take yourself if ur using quick connects as bleeding and draining is accomplished easier.

<just take the rad box to a sink and pour>

Ummmmmmm depending on how far the radbox is from the computer, your gonna need to be sure you get a strong pump to provide it with good flow at that distance. I wouldnt recomend anything with less head pressure of a D5. You'd probably want to step up to a stronger pump even, or use a series of them.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

It should be a level flow no longer than 4 ft. each way.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Additionally, thank you for the Asetek suggestion, I hadn't given that much thought. Something like this looks right up my ally. Its basically a Dual Black Ice Pro with an Enclosure with a PSU, thermometer, and fan control. Figuring out how to power the fans was precisely my problem to begin with. This would be perfect. Then I just have to provide the blocks. But I see one critical flaw... 1/4" fittings WTF?! I would need such a high flow pump to keep moving enough water... darnit if only it were 3/8 or 1/2... Anyone know of anything like the Asetek that uses 1/2 or 3/8 fittings?

EDIT: It says 1/2" hose connectors... which is it??

 

[aigomorla]

rofl ive been wanting to figure that out also. I believe the fittings are G1/4 with 1/2inch barbs. Im not quite 100% sure about this.

And yes the astek external kit is the only external i would personally go with because

1. it doesnt use aluminum at all like the zalman does and u dont have to worry about corrosion.

2. Each part is interchangable. If u want to tweek it, your not limited in what you can do. Swap out the radiator with a newer same size one. Swap the pump out as well. Freedom to use almost any copper waterblock is a big bonus also.

3. Stay away from zalman because it uses aluminum in its resivour. and god forbid u to even look at thermaltake. The koolance exo's are also quite good as long as serious overclocking isnt prime.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I agree with that. I wish to stay with asetek on this one. Dumb question, but how would I measure just how much water I need in the reservoir? I dont want to run out Also, is there anywhere I can go to get more specs on the pump? I know its some sort of smart pump but it doesn't give its db rating nor its amount of head. I suppose tomorrow I'll have to email asetek and find out for sure on fitting size.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I agree with that. I wish to stay with asetek on this one. Dumb question, but how would I measure just how much water I need in the reservoir? I dont want to run out Also, is there anywhere I can go to get more specs on the pump? I know its some sort of smart pump but it doesn't give its db rating nor its amount of head. I suppose tomorrow I'll have to email asetek and find out for sure on fitting size.

well as i stated im also currious on this question. Im sure its going to be near the same class as a MP350 or the new 355 so head presure isnt an issue. All the reviews also showed it performed well with moderate overclocking pushing it ahead of koolances kit.

But i have seen pictures of the thing taken apart, and if i could find a broken one, i would be more then happy to buy the unit and refit it with better parts.

IE. thermochil PA radiator, and better fans maybe even a stronger fish pond pump to help push the flow greater. Sicne its external i wouldnt really care if the pump was left on 24/7 and if u use quick connects replacing a pump would mean going down to the pet store and picking one up vs. having to have one mailed out to you from a computer store.

Watercooling gets cheaper once you know what your doing.
But the performance only gets BETTER once u know WHAT TO BUY because each time you set your loop up, i promise your temps are going to be either a little better or a little worse and almost never exact. Hence why im never changing my current loop.


Last bit of note, i would definitely relap the IHS on your cpu if you know how to. You want to make sure u have the flattest possible conact with the astek whitewater cpu block. And it might not hurt to relap the waterblock as well.

I personally dont like astek blocks just to let you know. But the difference in temps your going to see vs a apogee or TDX will be marginal to support a new 50 dollar block. But if you want the best id swap out the blocks b4 i swap the internal components on the astek.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

This keeps getting better! :laugh: Look at the specs section here on the frozen cpu page. Now we have 3/8" OD thrown in! :laugh: Maybe its a revolutionary universal system

I hadn't thought much on blocks though I had intended to get the external unit without them and then go with something such as the new DTek FuZion CPU block, a simple DTek NB waterblock (Not for the overclock, just more that there will be very very little airflow in the case. Additionally, I would still like to put a block on the GPU though I'm not sure as of yet because I haven't decided on the card. Again the reason for this is because the case simply wont have that much airflow, espcially for a hot GPU.

 

[aigomorla]

Id personally wait and see what swiftech's new block is. Im also waiting for it as its more optimized for larger cores like QX.

Ive always loved swiftech CPU blocks. Even back when they were on AIR, i used there old blocks on my old barton.

The new swiftech is suposed to be less restrictive like the apogee but yet perform greater then the storm. The block previews tommarrow at a special event in las vegas.

Swiftech Challange

Hehe, their so confedient on their new block that if you can beat it with the same setup, there gonna give u a free watercooled P180 case.


A few simple rules: No TEC blocks, your block must be ½? ID tubing capable for easy install on the loop, only one prize will be given out (it will go to the person with the best temps).
Other then that, it?s all good. All brands of waterblocks are welcome, homemade blocks included. All independent users and waterblock manufacturer representatives are welcome to take their best shot.

: so yeah, basically id wait for the winner of this competition. Unless its a homebrew block, id get whatever wins.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Oh yes, I've been watching this closely. In no way am I making a decision before I see this. Besides, This still has quite a bit of planning to go before I start purchasing.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Oh yes, I've been watching this closely. In no way am I making a decision before I see this. Besides, This still has quite a bit of planning to go before I start purchasing.

Have you concidered DYO an external? i was going to suggest this route also. If your a moderate case modder even, it shouldnt be too hard. Meaning u know how to work a dremel and ur comfortable shapping and snapping plexiglass.

All you would need is a Flat aluminum plate to mount all your gear on, then line the sides with plexiglass. Drill holes for air ducts and mount a SFF psu on it with a simple jumper on the ground and power line to get it started.

Downside is it would be running nonstop even after u turned off the system. There isnt anything wrong with that it. Also unless ur pretty good with the dremel, you'll most likely have slight blemishes, but it would perform tons better then any external if you could piece the right parts.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I'd thought about it, and as such im actually working on designs at this moment. However, I dont have the capabilities for working with acrylic, I'd probably make it out of aluminum.