Thinking about replacing CRT with a LCD

[Hadsus]

Originally posted by: Mem

The geometry canard is used again and again. It is not an issue. Just like some LCDs slightly change color left to right or have brightness issues vertically. Eventually it is just ignored. Not to mention that geometry can be fixed on CRTs. And if image quality were to deteriorate significantly on a CRT I simply wouldn't use it. But the one I use at work is going strong after ten years. If it was a problem, I'd simply ask for a new monitor. But I like the Multisync and will use it till it dies. Like I said, I use both and demonizing CRTs for some insignificant issue just gets old.

It is when you you have to rebox them like have done in the past over the years for RMA,believe me its no joke boxing those huge monitors back due to some crappy geometry or other issue,especially 3 floors up.

At least with LCD I only have to worry about dead pixels(can be covered by pixel check) and if I'm very unlucky maybe serious backlight bleed.

I'm glad CRTs are going way of the dodo.

Great. Since you are knowledgeable, maybe you could recommend an LCD that is suitable for a highly competitive online FPSer that reproduces color accurately, has good viewing angles, very fast response and little to no frame lag. And doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I could have opted for innumerable CRTs but they have gone the way of the Dodo. Thanks. (BTW, I'm serious....I've spent way too much time researching this and haven't come up with a solution.) (BTW-2....Yes, I've read the stickie. In fact, I've memorized it. )

 

[brblx]

i think you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too. =(

i don't know if you're going to find a panel with IPS quality color and viewing angles but with a super quick resonse time. 10ms (advertised as 5ms gtg) is about as good as it gets, i think, and most are higher than that.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: Hadsus

Originally posted by: Mem

The geometry canard is used again and again. It is not an issue. Just like some LCDs slightly change color left to right or have brightness issues vertically. Eventually it is just ignored. Not to mention that geometry can be fixed on CRTs. And if image quality were to deteriorate significantly on a CRT I simply wouldn't use it. But the one I use at work is going strong after ten years. If it was a problem, I'd simply ask for a new monitor. But I like the Multisync and will use it till it dies. Like I said, I use both and demonizing CRTs for some insignificant issue just gets old.

It is when you you have to rebox them like have done in the past over the years for RMA,believe me its no joke boxing those huge monitors back due to some crappy geometry or other issue,especially 3 floors up.

At least with LCD I only have to worry about dead pixels(can be covered by pixel check) and if I'm very unlucky maybe serious backlight bleed.

I'm glad CRTs are going way of the dodo.

Great. Since you are knowledgeable, maybe you could recommend an LCD that is suitable for a highly competitive online FPSer that reproduces color accurately, has good viewing angles, very fast response and little to no frame lag. And doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I could have opted for innumerable CRTs but they have gone the way of the Dodo. Thanks. (BTW, I'm serious....I've spent way too much time researching this and haven't come up with a solution.) (BTW-2....Yes, I've read the stickie. In fact, I've memorized it. )

First LCDs have improved over the years with regards to response times yet some people still are not happy,second I use a Spyder 2 calibrator(you can use any decent calibrator) for getting the colours right(I was using it on CRT in the old days first),as to the LCD stickie thread if you can't find a good LCD then see below because there are plenty out there.As you know TN,IPS,VA all have there Pro's and Con's(I'm lucky I have all three) personally a good VA monitor is probably the best all rounder if you want good viewing angles,response time,decent colour(use decent calibrator).

Something like NEC MultiSync 24WMGX³ review here should suit your needs (AMVA type).

Conclusion

The NEC 24WMGX³ is a qualitatively high value model the main area of application of which is in the multimedia sector, but which is also well to very well suited for fast-paced games. In terms of ergonomics, only a pivot function is lacking. However, this is completely bearable.

If you consider the overall performance, the NEC 24WMGX³ has truly earned a rating of very good. The modern AMVA panel with its perfect viewing angle and the solid video technology mean that the model can be recommended for use in the multimedia sector.

Another review here

The NEC Multisync 24WMGX3 is by far and large, the best TFT monitor I have ever used. It's a fantastic looking display, and any gripes you have with it can be easily altered with fully fledged menus (or even on the remote if you are feeling lazy). The only real let down of the screen is the price. Holy jesus is it expensive.

This product is fully deserving of the extreme award. It's about as good as it gets, but the price is high. If you have the kind of money to afford this, you really will not be disappointed.

Ignore the price since it has dropped a lot,seen it for £399 in UK rather then £650 as stated.

 

[w0w0w0w0w]

I have just ordered the LG L227WT and should recieve it tomorrow.

To be honest I am preparing to get used to a little bluring but overall I think that I will benefit from going from a 15.7'' CRT to a 22'' TN LCD (and hopefully, the L227WT is one of the best in that class in terms of response times and input lag)

Thanks alot everyone for all the advice. It will be interesting to see how LCDs develop in the future.

 

[Hadsus]

Originally posted by: Mem
Something like NEC MultiSync 24WMGX³ review here should suit your needs (AMVA type).

Conclusion

The NEC 24WMGX³ is a qualitatively high value model the main area of application of which is in the multimedia sector, but which is also well to very well suited for fast-paced games. In terms of ergonomics, only a pivot function is lacking. However, this is completely bearable.

If you consider the overall performance, the NEC 24WMGX³ has truly earned a rating of very good. The modern AMVA panel with its perfect viewing angle and the solid video technology mean that the model can be recommended for use in the multimedia sector.

Another review here

The NEC Multisync 24WMGX3 is by far and large, the best TFT monitor I have ever used. It's a fantastic looking display, and any gripes you have with it can be easily altered with fully fledged menus (or even on the remote if you are feeling lazy). The only real let down of the screen is the price. Holy jesus is it expensive.

This product is fully deserving of the extreme award. It's about as good as it gets, but the price is high. If you have the kind of money to afford this, you really will not be disappointed.

Ignore the price since it has dropped a lot,seen it for £399 in UK rather then £650 as stated.

Can't find any dealers for this in the US.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: Hadsus

Originally posted by: Mem
Something like NEC MultiSync 24WMGX³ review here should suit your needs (AMVA type).

Conclusion

The NEC 24WMGX³ is a qualitatively high value model the main area of application of which is in the multimedia sector, but which is also well to very well suited for fast-paced games. In terms of ergonomics, only a pivot function is lacking. However, this is completely bearable.

If you consider the overall performance, the NEC 24WMGX³ has truly earned a rating of very good. The modern AMVA panel with its perfect viewing angle and the solid video technology mean that the model can be recommended for use in the multimedia sector.

Another review here

The NEC Multisync 24WMGX3 is by far and large, the best TFT monitor I have ever used. It's a fantastic looking display, and any gripes you have with it can be easily altered with fully fledged menus (or even on the remote if you are feeling lazy). The only real let down of the screen is the price. Holy jesus is it expensive.

This product is fully deserving of the extreme award. It's about as good as it gets, but the price is high. If you have the kind of money to afford this, you really will not be disappointed.

Ignore the price since it has dropped a lot,seen it for £399 in UK rather then £650 as stated.

Can't find any dealers for this in the US.

Sorry about that,anyway here is UK dealer that has it in stock(for UK members here that are interested) ,link.

 

[Hadsus]

I guess I'll stick with my Sammy 215tw until it breaks down. I was looking to go bigger with a 24" but it appears that there isn't a better alternative out there that is of reasonable price.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: error8

Why are you saying this?

Because a 60 Hz device can at most display 60 full frames per second.

When I got my 60 Hz LCD, it felt like it had the same effect on my eyes as my old 100Hz CRT.

Then I can only conclude that you never saw a framerate higher than 60 FPS on your CRT.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: Mem

I use to run 85Hz and 100Hz on my CRT in the old days ,however I find 60Hz gaming fine on a fast TN panel,

60 FPS is quite choppy in many games, and there?s a huge difference between it and something higher like 120 FPS.

Another point quite a few LCDs can do 75Hz too(however I have yet to see any difference personally)

Actually no, they can?t. The vast majority pretend they can do 75 Hz, but in reality they skip every fourth or fifth frame. Either that or they do frame insertion trickery like the ?120 Hz? HDTVs, so they can?t really accept a full 75 frames per second.

There are very few LCDs that can truly do 75 Hz (i.e. accept and display 75 full frames per second).

Last point there is always some time to adjust for the user in question going from CRT to LCD regardless of refresh rate in question.

All the more reason to go straight to a 120 Hz LCD, which has already demonstrated its superiority over 60 Hz devices.

Works both ways, CRTs are bulky use more power and heat,

Actually the big LCDs can guzzle more power than CRTs.

also CRT lose focus sharpness/quality over time so you may not notice it at first,throw

And LCDs can have input lag (horrific at times), and non-uniform colors. The 3008 for example has a difference of up to 29% between the darkest and lightest spot:

http://www.behardware.com/arti...4/dell-3008wfp-hc.html

There?s actually no single LCD that can match everything a CRT can give you. Every time you try to pick an LCD that works well in one or two areas you care about, it turns out to be abysmal in other areas.

Throw in the widescreen gaming experience via 16:10 or 16:9 LCDs too which very few CRTs have.

Every CRT can do widescreen gaming if you don?t mind black bars.

First LCDs have improved over the years with regards to response times yet some people still are not happy

That?s because the response time has increased at the cost of RTC errors and input lag. That and even 2 ms monitors still ghost compared to CRTs:

http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html

Compared to the reference image at the top (a CRT), not one single 2 ms LCD on that page could match it

 

[Mem]

and non-uniform colors. The 3008 for example has a difference of up to 29% between the darkest and lightest spot:

Down to model and monitor in question.

Every CRT can do widescreen gaming if you don?t mind black bars.

Yes but they are 5:4 or 4:3 by default design.

There?s actually no single LCD that can match everything a CRT can give you. Every time you try to pick an LCD that works well in one or two areas you care about, it turns out to be abysmal in other areas.

LCDs have their Pros over Crts,if CRTs were that great(I don't argue they have their Pros too) then why are they more or less phased out?

Actually the big LCDs can guzzle more power than CRTs.

In general LCDs use less power then CRTs.

60 FPS is quite choppy in many games, and there?s a huge difference between it and something higher like 120 FPS.

Thats down to what the user notices,I don't find it choppy LCD wise.

That?s because the response time has increased at the cost of RTC errors and input lag. That and even 2 ms monitors still ghost compared to CRTs:

In real gaming I don't see any ghosting or real lag so its not an issue for me,infact I'm enjoying my gaming experience.

All the more reason to go straight to a 120 Hz LCD, which has already demonstrated its superiority over 60 Hz devices.

I don't see 120Hz as a bad thing,its called progress.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: error8
When I got my 60 Hz LCD, it felt like it had the same effect on my eyes as my old 100Hz CRT.

Same here and I came off a Sony Trinitron tube. I don't wear glasses and my vision is near 20/20 in case you wanna blame my eyesight...

 

[brblx]

someone is hanging way too much on the whim of 120hz monitor manufacturers.

i'd rather have my sliced bread, thanks.

 

[xCxStylex]

Not to be a douche, but this sounds like a troll post :/

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: Mem

Down to model and monitor in question.

Right, much like geometry on CRTs, which you claim is universally bad.

Yes but they are 5:4 or 4:3 by default design.

Right, but they generally scale better than LCDs. Also not all content is widescreen, especially not 16:9 like your device is.

LCDs have their Pros over Crts,if CRTs were that great(I don't argue they have their Pros too) then why are they more or less phased out?

The same reason that TN panels are now starting to infect even the bigger LCD screens. Manufacturers resort to what sells more, not what?s necessarily better.

In general LCDs use less power then CRTs.

Care to quantify that? Which LCD do you use?

Thats down to what the user notices,I don't find it choppy LCD wise.

The review I linked to subjectively and objectively backed my claims. Even if you don?t find it choppy, there?s absolutely no denying that RTC errors were visibly reduced by moving to 120 Hz.

In real gaming I don't see any ghosting or real lag so its not an issue for me,infact I'm enjoying my gaming experience.

I see it, and 60 Hz is choppy to me, which is why I don?t ever plan on buying a 60 Hz LCD.

I don't see 120Hz as a bad thing,its called progress.

Um, I think you?re arguing something that isn?t being argued. I?m claiming 60 Hz blows chunks (and always has), and we now have direct evidence in the form of 120 Hz LCDs which irrefutably prove this.

All you appear to be doing is engaging in 60 Hz apologism.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Negatives to CRT's : big, heavy, power-hungry, not 'cool'.

and eye destroyers.

I just picked up a 21" CRT and when compared to my 1680x1050 LCD it does seem harder on my eyes.

Does increasing the refresh rate on a CRT help with eye strain. I noticed in CCC my CRT has an option for 100 Hz while my LCD can only be selected @ 60 Hz.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: Just learning

Does increasing the refresh rate on a CRT help with eye strain.

Yes, always run it as high as possible.

 

[Turbonium]

Originally posted by: w0w0w0w0w
I am thinking about replacing my "Samsung SAMTRON 75E(M) (Plus)" 15.7 inch CRT.

I lol'd.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: w0w0w0w0w

Does anyone have any predictions as to if 120Hz monitors will become more affordable in the near future (<1Year)? (Lets say cut the 2233RZ from £400 down to £300)

That is a good question.

It depends on whether people really think 120 Hz is worth it.

At the moment Nvidia is pushing 120 Hz for their 3D vision kit, but it sounds like 120 Hz might be worth it for reasons other than that.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

All you appear to be doing is engaging in 60 Hz apologism.

Hmm wrong.

Originally posted by: Just learning

Does increasing the refresh rate on a CRT help with eye strain.

Some people like 85Hz others 100Hz or 120Hz,personally I liked 85Hz as very minimum,again its down to the individual and what you are happy with.Too much brightness can cause eyestrain too( thats not really a problem with CRTs,more with LCDs).