Thinking about buying a Mazdaspeed3

[Xyclone]

I had narrowed down my car choices to either the MINI Cooper S or the Mazdaspeed3. The Cooper was nice, albeit a little too small to be practical as a 4 seater, and the MPG is attractive. But, since it is made by BMW, I cannot find one stock. My budget is 22-23k. Dealers are selling them at MSRP (considered a good deal on a MINI). Also, most MINI's here in Los Angeles come in auto, and I want an MT.

This crossed the MINI off the list, and I test drove the Mazdaspeed3. The amazing amount of power was exhilarating, but it took a toll on the fuel economy (18/26 new ratings). The MCS, by comparison, is 26/34 (new ratings). But, the lowest quote I've gotten on the Mazda is only a few hundred over invoice, 21.5K. Will the extra 3-4k (BMW nickel and dime options) pay itself off with its fuel economy? Also, the MS3's insurance is only slightly higher than the MINI's.

I know it's stupid to expect a car to have 263hp/280 lb/ft of torque and be a fuel sipper. My dad's 2007 Camry V6 has about the same power rating and gets 1 mpg better in the city, and 2 better on the highway, and he got it new for ~21K. The Civic Si, which has an anemic 139 lb/ft of torque (less than half of the Mazda's 280 lb/ft), gets 3 mpg better in the city and highway. It does get 200 hp, but that is pretty much useless around town, since it has to be wound up to 6k-8k rpm (vtec) to produce that power rating.

Cliffs:
-Crossed off the MINI due to extensive, expensive option packaging, and inability to find the car stock.
-Interested in Mazdaspeed3, got a great deal, more practical, etc.
-Mazda gets 18/26 MPG, while Cooper gets 26/34.
-Wondering if MPG will be a problem in the long run (~4-5+ years).

 

[thedarkwolf]

Its up too you. The mazdaspeed is a damn nice car but the fuel mileage isn't impressive by any means. Its get the same mileage on premium city and highway as a mustang GT on regular. A little 4 banger should be able to do better then that turbo or not especially in the city. Most of the time you are just cruising around out of boost anyway.

 

[yelo333]

Well, If you drive 15,000 mi/yr & gas is $5/gal:

For 5 years:

Cost of gas with Mini @ 30 MPG:

15000 miles / 30 (miles / gal) * 5 (dollars / gal) * 5 years =$12,500

Cost of gas with MS3 @ 22 MPG:

15000 / 22 * 5 * 5 = $17,045

Difference = $4545

So I guess that means gas does kinda negate the price difference if you share the same estimates I do. I haven't taken interest or TVM into account, though, so you'd probably come out slightly ahead with the MS3 from an investment standpoint. Less money up front, more later with the MS3. More up front, less later with the MINI.

 

[sniperruff]

1) spirited driving and high mpg does not co-exist
2) the mini has been out since 2001 and is mostly unchaged
3) the MS3 is a economy compact. the mini is a premium compact.
4) the mini has a much higher resale value. much higher.
5) do you really need 263hp/280 lb/ft of torque around the city?

just some things to consider.

 

[aphex]

My dad's Mini Cooper S took its life to save mine. I was driving by myself and was t-boned by someone going 45-50mph directly into the passenger side door, i've never felt more safe. The right side of the car was destroyed, but amazingly the passenger compartment wasn't compromised at all, even if the car was full with 4 adults, we all would have walked away fine. All the windows blew out (not in - barely a shred of glass inside the car), the hazard lights automatically turned on, the doors unlocked, etc. Its a fine piece of engineering.

Sadly, as much as I love my Mazda3, it does not instill the same level of confidence as the cooper. If i had the choice and the space wasn't an issue, I would get the Cooper S without hesitation. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mazda3, in fact i've had very few problems in my 90k miles over the past 3 years, but the Cooper is solid as a rock, the 3, not so much.

If your not in a rush, order your Cooper S. Build time is about 2-3 months and comes from their Oxford, UK plant. Then you can get the exact car you want.

Also, as the other poster said, the Mini has a disgustingly high resale value. I've seen used Mini's sell for nearly as much as a new one.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
2) the mini has been out since 2001 and is mostly unchaged

It went through a redesign in 2007, though the look is similar there were some major changes done.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Redesign of the Coopers has been met with a lot of ciriticism as reviewers call the new interior horrid compared to the old.
New is turbocharged
old is supercharged

I would also test drive a Cobalt SS with its 260HP 2.0L.
.92G skidpad
72.5mph slalom
26mpg combined
30mpg hwy

The sedan will be out in a few months for the 2009 MY.

 

[aatf510]

A BMW 335i with a 300 hp / 300 lb/ft gets 17/26 MPG.
Considering the Mazda 3 weights much less with less hp/tq. It's really not impressive.

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Redesign of the Coopers has been met with a lot of ciriticism as reviewers call the new interior horrid compared to the old.
New is turbocharged
old is supercharged

I would also test drive a Cobalt SS with its 260HP 2.0L.
.92G skidpad
72.5mph slalom
26mpg combined
30mpg hwy

The sedan will be out in a few months for the 2009 MY.

You're telling me the Cooper's new interior is horrid, then recommended me a Cobalt SS? That thing had the cheapest interior I've ever seen. Ever. Just open the glovebox, you'll see what I'm saying. I've driven the old one, and the new one has a much better interior, albeit an even bigger speedo. Better materials, better build quality, etc. And the new turbo is more reliable, faster (lighter car), more powerful, and more fuel effecient. The car is an improvement in every aspect.

I have to say that my parents will be paying the gas, though. I know they can afford it, and I don't really drive that much yet (just around the valley), but I don't want to make an irresponsible decision as far as gas goes, since I will be paying for the gas in a few years, and I don't want to waste their money.

Also, I was reading online that driving a Mazdaspeed3 under 3000 RPM (out of boost) makes the car drive a little more like an economy car, as far as MPG? Any insight?

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Its up too you. The mazdaspeed is a damn nice car but the fuel mileage isn't impressive by any means. Its get the same mileage on premium city and highway as a mustang GT on regular. A little 4 banger should be able to do better then that turbo or not especially in the city. Most of the time you are just cruising around out of boost anyway.

Wrong, the new ratings for the Mustang GT are 15/22 (auto), 15/23 (manual), but it does take regular. Insurance prices must be insaaaaane on a cheap V8 RWD, though (GTO, Camaro, Mustang, etc.)

 

[Subbaculcha]

I consistently get 25 mpg in My Mazdaspeed3, about 50/50 highway/city. I've gotten as high as 28 taking it really easy. I haven't done a pure highway trip yet.
The Cooper S is a really nice car but optioned the way i'd want it would be close to 30k, I paid 22k (plus $1200 aftermarket leather) for my Mazdaspeed3 Sport. Aphex above compares a Mazda3 to the Cooper S, but the Mazdaspeed3 is much tighter compared to a regular Mazda3 (I know, I had a Mazda3 before my Mazdaspeed3). The Mazdaspeed 3 is a pretty amazing car for the money, and you can gain substantial performance increases with bolt ons if you wish (I'm leaving mine stock, it's all I need).
Try out a regular Mazda 3 and see if it meets your needs as you can probably get out the door for under 20k, and a little bump in mpg.
Also check out the VW GTI, they get pricey optioned, but you should be able to find a base package in your price range, and they are really, really fun to drive. Decent on gas too. Make sure to try one with the DSG, I loved it.

The speed3 is fast, somewhat economical, great handling, functions as a family car, and great for home depot runs.

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: Subbaculcha
I consistently get 25 mpg in My Mazdaspeed3, about 50/50 highway/city. I've gotten as high as 28 taking it really easy. I haven't done a pure highway trip yet.
The Cooper S is a really nice car but optioned the way i'd want it would be close to 30k, I paid 22k (plus $1200 aftermarket leather) for my Mazdaspeed3 Sport. Aphex above compares a Mazda3 to the Cooper S, but the Mazdaspeed3 is much tighter compared to a regular Mazda3 (I know, I had a Mazda3 before my Mazdaspeed3). The Mazdaspeed 3 is a pretty amazing car for the money, and you can gain substantial performance increases with bolt ons if you wish (I'm leaving mine stock, it's all I need).
Try out a regular Mazda 3 and see if it meets your needs as you can probably get out the door for under 20k, and a little bump in mpg.
Also check out the VW GTI, they get pricey optioned, but you should be able to find a base package in your price range, and they are really, really fun to drive. Decent on gas too. Make sure to try one with the DSG, I loved it.

The speed3 is fast, somewhat economical, great handling, functions as a family car, and great for home depot runs.

Horrid reliability and resale value has stopped me from looking at a GTI. Also, it's not great at anything. The Mazda is great in raw muscle and performance, while the MINI is great in light weight and styling. The GTI is heavy, the brakes are subpar, and it doesn't handle as well as its competitors. I have driven it in DSG and my friend drove one in manual while I sat in the passenger seat (didn't know MT at the time).

Thanks for the experienced comment on the Mazdaspeed3. It's a lot more practical as a 4 seater (can actually fit full-sized adults comfortably in the back, and the hatch is much larger. I also read that you can improve MPG and performance (25-30+ hp to the wheels) just by adding a cold air intake. The stock airbox is apparently super-restrictive, to drown out the noise of the turbo.

EDIT: I know the Mazda has 5 seats, but I was talking about fitting full size adults comfortably.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: Subbaculcha
I consistently get 25 mpg in My Mazdaspeed3, about 50/50 highway/city. I've gotten as high as 28 taking it really easy. I haven't done a pure highway trip yet.
The Cooper S is a really nice car but optioned the way i'd want it would be close to 30k, I paid 22k (plus $1200 aftermarket leather) for my Mazdaspeed3 Sport. Aphex above compares a Mazda3 to the Cooper S, but the Mazdaspeed3 is much tighter compared to a regular Mazda3 (I know, I had a Mazda3 before my Mazdaspeed3). The Mazdaspeed 3 is a pretty amazing car for the money, and you can gain substantial performance increases with bolt ons if you wish (I'm leaving mine stock, it's all I need).
Try out a regular Mazda 3 and see if it meets your needs as you can probably get out the door for under 20k, and a little bump in mpg.
Also check out the VW GTI, they get pricey optioned, but you should be able to find a base package in your price range, and they are really, really fun to drive. Decent on gas too. Make sure to try one with the DSG, I loved it.

The speed3 is fast, somewhat economical, great handling, functions as a family car, and great for home depot runs.

Can you define tighter? If by performance, sure, but i've sat in a Mazdaspeed3 and the interior was exactly the same as my Mazda3. My comparison wasn't meant for performance, it was for durability and safety.

 

[ZetaEpyon]

I get about 25mpg average in my Mazdaspeed 3 GT, too.
Frankly, I think you'd have to constantly drive the thing pretty damn hard to get it down to 18mpg average city driving.

It is not at all difficult to drive around town and stay out of the boost, so that can help.

 

[Subbaculcha]

Originally posted by: aphex
Can you define tighter? If by performance, sure, but i've sat in a Mazdaspeed3 and the interior was exactly the same as my Mazda3. My comparison wasn't meant for performance, it was for durability and safety.

I can't describe it in technical terms, but vs. the Mazda 3, the suspension feels much stiffer but not annoying, the steering feels....well...tighter, more confident taking corners at speed. On the highway going 80 it is very surefooted. It's nice to just give it a little throttle in 6th gear on the highway to pass, don't have to downshift. The braking is amazing.


You're correct there's no real difference in the interior, except for the speed3 seats, which are really comfy and hold you in very well. Haven't experienced any maintenance problems, and as far as safety, I dunno...it has plenty of airbags, and I have not heard of any safety problems.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: Xyclone

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Its up too you. The mazdaspeed is a damn nice car but the fuel mileage isn't impressive by any means. Its get the same mileage on premium city and highway as a mustang GT on regular. A little 4 banger should be able to do better then that turbo or not especially in the city. Most of the time you are just cruising around out of boost anyway.

Wrong, the new ratings for the Mustang GT are 15/22 (auto), 15/23 (manual), but it does take regular. Insurance prices must be insaaaaane on a cheap V8 RWD, though (GTO, Camaro, Mustang, etc.)

Your right I was looking at the old ratings. I doubt the insurance is any worse then the mazda speed3. They are all probably in about the same risk zone. I know the insurance was actually cheaper on my 89 mustang 5.0l 5 speed then the 94 mazda miata I replaced it with which is insane. Miatas are slower then crap stock and as far as the insurance company knows mine is stock.

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: Xyclone

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Its up too you. The mazdaspeed is a damn nice car but the fuel mileage isn't impressive by any means. Its get the same mileage on premium city and highway as a mustang GT on regular. A little 4 banger should be able to do better then that turbo or not especially in the city. Most of the time you are just cruising around out of boost anyway.

Wrong, the new ratings for the Mustang GT are 15/22 (auto), 15/23 (manual), but it does take regular. Insurance prices must be insaaaaane on a cheap V8 RWD, though (GTO, Camaro, Mustang, etc.)

Your right I was looking at the old ratings. I doubt the insurance is any worse then the mazda speed3. They are all probably in about the same risk zone. I know the insurance was actually cheaper on my 89 mustang 5.0l 5 speed then the 94 mazda miata I replaced it with which is insane. Miatas are slower then crap stock and as far as the insurance company knows mine is stock.

The Mazdaspeed3's insurance is not bad at all, only 100 more/year than the MCS. I'm sure the Mustang GT will be at least $500/year more. You're replacing a car with one 5 year older than the one you were replacing it for. Also, 2 seater lightweight convertible vs. sporty coupe. Apples and oranges.

 

[thedarkwolf]

They are both worth the same amount and I was just going by liability only plus the lightweight mustang was a freaking death trap. Funky handling, horrible brakes, lots and lots of torque + rwd = lots of fun in the rain and forget driving it in the snow. The miata is a pleasure to drive in the rain and snow compared to the mustang. Anyway they are both higher risk cars as is the mazdaspeed3. Mustangs aren't as expensive to insure as people think. I'm not tring to say buy a mustang instead. If I was going to argue I'd say get a miata which also don't get all that great of mileage despite their size and weight t .

 

[Xyclone]

Argh, I think I want the MINI now. Found out I will be paying for gas so the Mazda is pretty much out. I hope I can find one close to stock but if I can't, I'll have it in 8 weeks I guess...

 

[T2urtle]

$5000 worth of gas for the next 5 years ( guesstimating) is that big of a impact to you in buying a car. buying a 20-25k car and worrying about 1k more in gas prices doesn't exactly make too much sense to me. Just get the car you feel is the best feel for you and your life. Worry about the small details afterwards. Insurance rates, gas prices are always fluctuating but the car price will not is how i look at it.

 

[ballmode]

How about an E46 330i ZHP

 

[GreenGhost]

What about an Audi A3 with S-tronic transmission (the dual-clutch manual w/ paddle shifters)? MSRP around 26k if you skip the optional packages. EPA highway around 30, better interior, mostly positive reviews. I still don't you if they have bare ones at the dealers, as it's easy to add 10k in optional packages (S trim & similar crap), making it way too expensive for a Golf in tuxedo.

 

[GreenGhost]

What about an Audi A3 with S-tronic transmission (the dual-clutch manual w/ paddle shifters)? MSRP around 26k if you skip the optional packages. EPA highway around 30, better interior, mostly positive reviews. I still don't you if they have bare ones at the dealers, as it's easy to add 10k in optional packages (S trim & similar crap), making it way too expensive for a Golf in tuxedo.

 

[theeedude]

Just get a Mazda3s Hatchback with 5mt. That car is a blast to drive too in the twisties, and it certainly is not underpowered by any means.

 

[Xyclone]

I've decided on the MINI Cooper S, i got a quote only $438 over the invoice of the car (sports package included in the invoice price; source: Edmunds). I will have to order it (6-10 weeks), but it's worth it to get exactly what I want. To clarify, I really wanted the MINI first, MS3 second, but the fact that I couldn't find a MINI steered me away from it. I decided 2 months is nothing to wait for a new car. Besides, being 18 years old and having to pay for gas, the MS3's average MPG would get expensive. To clarify, my parents are buying me the car, and I'm paying all expenses on it (insurance, fees, gas, etc.).

Ballmode, the MPG is average. My friend gets 16 with his 330i ZHP auto in the city, and his driving is neither spirited nor conservative. Besides, I'm buying it to run it into the ground, and I'm sure repair costs on an old BMW (down the line) will be high. The reliability for the R56 (2007- ) MINI's are quite good, according to Consumer Reports (trust them on car reliability).

EDIT: I know MINI's are made by BMW, it's just they're more reliable (the new generation) than they're BMW badged cousins.