Think you're not in a totalitarian state? Read this...

[shady28]

This is not from some radical right or left wing conspiracy site. This is real.

You no longer have a right to live without trial by jury, even as a US citizen.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-kill-list-doj-memo


"When the New York Times back in April, 2010 first confirmed the existence of Obama's hit list, it made clear just what an extremist power this is, noting: "It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing." "

"The president's underlings compile their proposed lists of who should be executed, and the president - at a charming weekly event dubbed by White House aides as "Terror Tuesday" - then chooses from "baseball cards" and decrees in total secrecy who should die. The power of accuser, prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner are all consolidated in this one man, and those powers are exercised in the dark."

"In fact, The Most Transparent Administration Ever™ has been so fixated on secrecy that they have refused even to disclose the legal memoranda prepared by Obama lawyers setting forth their legal rationale for why the president has this power. "

"Last night, NBC News' Michael Isikoff released a 16-page "white paper" prepared by the Obama DOJ that purports to justify Obama's power to target even Americans for assassination without due process .."

"This is the crucial point: the memo isn't justifying the due-process-free execution of senior al-Qaida leaders who pose an imminent threat to the US. It is justifying the due-process-free execution of people secretly accused by the president and his underlings, with no due process, of being that. The distinction between (a) government accusations and (b) proof of guilt is central to every free society, by definition, yet this memo - and those who defend Obama's assassination power - willfully ignore it."

"The reason this is so fitting is because, as I've detailed many times, it was these same early Bush/Cheney theories that made me want to begin writing about politics, all driven by my perception that the US government was becoming extremist and dangerous. During the early Bush years, the very idea that the US government asserted the power to imprison US citizens without charges and due process (or to eavesdrop on them) was so radical that, at the time, I could hardly believe they were being asserted out in the open.

Yet here we are almost a full decade later. And we have the current president asserting the power not merely to imprison or eavesdrop on US citizens without charges or trial, but to order them executed."

 

[gevorg]

but but... THEIR TERRISTS!!

 

[zanejohnson]

but but... THEIR TERRISTS!!

hehe


half the american people are "terrists" now..

 

[shady28]

This stuff is eerily like Article 48 from Wiemar Germany. Use of that article is how Hitler came to power.

 

[OutHouse]

Obama is worse of a tyrant than bush.

 

[zanejohnson]

neither obama or bush was a tyrant...

the people who pull the strings.. they are tyrants..

 

[FaaR]

Hyperbolics FTW!

If you silly ignorant americans actually lived in a totalitarian state there would be armed (military) police busting down your doors and disappearing you just for posting in this thread. You obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and you demean people who have sacrificed their freedom and even their lives struggling against ACTUAL totalitarianism by comparing your safe and comfortable existance to theirs.

So grow the fuck up a bit and take a look around in this world. Think you have it so bad? Maybe check out what it's like to live in Eritrea for example.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Hyperbolics FTW!

If you silly ignorant americans actually lived in a totalitarian state there would be armed (military) police busting down your doors and disappearing you just for posting in this thread. You obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and you demean people who have sacrificed their freedom and even their lives struggling against ACTUAL totalitarianism by comparing your safe and comfortable existance to theirs.

So grow the fuck up a bit and take a look around in this world. Think you have it so bad? Maybe check out what it's like to live in Eritrea for example.

You are right. We are not totalitarian but what I think the OP is truly aiming at is that we are dangerously close to that designation. Almost seems like all thats needed is a stroke of a pen. The pieces are in place as the article pointed out. Watched and recorded without knowledge or legal consent, imprisoned without trial and death by presidential decree.

 

[boomerang]

Hyperbolics FTW!

If you silly ignorant americans actually lived in a totalitarian state there would be armed (military) police busting down your doors and disappearing you just for posting in this thread. You obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and you demean people who have sacrificed their freedom and even their lives struggling against ACTUAL totalitarianism by comparing your safe and comfortable existance to theirs.

So grow the fuck up a bit and take a look around in this world. Think you have it so bad? Maybe check out what it's like to live in Eritrea for example.

Another lecture from a European pillow biter. That shit just never gets old. Tell your people to get their heads out of their collectivist asses and go free your lover. We're not going to do it for you and we frankly don't give a rat's ass.

 

[boomerang]

You are right. We are not totalitarian but what I think the OP is truly aiming at is that we are dangerously close to that designation. Almost seems like all thats needed is a stroke of a pen. The pieces are in place as the article pointed out. Watched and recorded without knowledge or legal consent, imprisoned without trial and death by presidential decree.

You are correct and any person with a degree of intelligence realizes it. Europeans in general are too stupid to realize what is happening around them until it's too late. They do excel at chastising those who can think past the nose on their face though.

Threads like these, discourse like this may be the only thing that saves us from a totalitarian state. The guns are still a problem though...

 

[FaaR]

We're not going to do it for you and we frankly don't give a rat's ass.

Nobody asked you to intervene you pompous, arrogant american twit. It was an example to illustrate a point, are you capable of following normal discourse? As if you'd lift a finger for anyone or anything with that attitude anyway, lest it be your hand holding a bigmac, to your own mouth that is.

You illustrate my example perfectly, ignorance and self-obsession all bundled up in one neat package. Can't be bothered to educate yourself, even though you're perfectly aware you don't have a clue.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Militarized police forces and corrupt court systems are spreading across the country and a few foreign drone strikes are what we have to worry about?

 

[Doppel]

Hyperbolics FTW!

If you silly ignorant americans actually lived in a totalitarian state there would be armed (military) police busting down your doors and disappearing you just for posting in this thread. You obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and you demean people who have sacrificed their freedom and even their lives struggling against ACTUAL totalitarianism by comparing your safe and comfortable existance to theirs.

So grow the fuck up a bit and take a look around in this world. Think you have it so bad? Maybe check out what it's like to live in Eritrea for example.

It'a absolutely accurate that the US is NOWHERE NEAR something like that, and we'd all do well to remember it.

The US:
- has freedom of speech. Not just "on the books but you better watch it", but a literal freedom of speech with very, very few exceptions, in law AND in practice
- has a good legal system. It's not great, it's good. Its weakest link is the massive incarceration rates
- low corruption on an international index.

The US also has--and these are all in the last decade:
- warrant less wire tapping
- torture
- held indefinitely without trial
- secretive kill list of US citizens

So if people aren't concerned about the way things are going, they fucking should be. But then history teaches the proles rarely do much without others, who are paying an iota of attention, rousing them off their asses.

 

[boomerang]

Nobody asked you to intervene you pompous, arrogant american twit. It was an example to illustrate a point, are you capable of following normal discourse? As if you'd lift a finger for anyone or anything with that attitude anyway, lest it be your hand holding a bigmac, to your own mouth that is.

You illustrate my example perfectly, ignorance and self-obsession all bundled up in one neat package. Can't be bothered to educate yourself, even though you're perfectly aware you don't have a clue.

Dear buttplug,

I may have falsely assumed that when you referred to us as you "silly ignorant americans" that the gloves had come off and we were free to trade insults. If that's not the case, tough shit.

Your pal,

boomerang

 

[Charles Kozierok]

If the US was as bad as some people say it is, those people would have been "disappeared" by the government long ago.

Read up on what a real totalitarian state is like. This ain't it.

There are millions of Chinese citizens who would give almost anything for the level of "totalitarianism" we have here in the US.

 

[FaaR]

I may have falsely assumed that when you referred to us as you "silly ignorant americans" that the gloves had come off and we were free to trade insults.

Oh, trade away, by all means, my dear anally-fixated-comfortably-well-to-do:er-thinking-he's-being-oppressed-lul. My skin is impressively thick and calloused.

We complacent Europeans are happy to announce to our friends in the US, that even though you may think you live in a totalitarian state (complete with free, democratic elections, free speech and things of that sort), you do not. The US is increasingly authoritarian sure, hence the waterboarding, the warrantless wiretaps, indefinite incarcerations and those other things mentioned so far. However that does not all sum up into totalitarianism. There's a significant difference still until you reach that point - if you ever do.

You should be very pleased to hear this.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If the US was as bad as some people say it is, those people would have been "disappeared" by the government long ago.

Read up on what a real totalitarian state is like. This ain't it.

There are millions of Chinese citizens who would give almost anything for the level of "totalitarianism" we have here in the US.

Hyperbolic claims like the OP makes only diverts from any legitimate concern of substance. I suggest that be a consideration when making rules for the new forum.
To address the quoted material, it is of concern that the tendency is for power, even that which gives a President caesar-like control over life and death with no accountability has b taken root and is growing. Since we do not care or wish our representatives held accountable ( I cite Iraq as an example) why would those in authority care?

 

[frowertr]

If the Senate democrates are ok with the bombing of American citizens by using drone strikes WITHOUT due process, then they are all hypocrites and should be removed from Congress.

They should issue a formal apology to Bush Jr. for their criticizing of the Patriot Act, water boarding, wire tapping, and "enhanced interrogation". After all, how can you be for assassinating American citizens but against all the other??

 

[Smoblikat]

Obama is worse of a tyrant than bush.

Bush wasnt a tyrant, he was a puppet who offered MUCH needed comic relief when he made speeches

Hussein is 100% a tyrannical puppet.

 

[Smoblikat]

If the Senate democrates are ok with the bombing of American citizens by using drone strikes WITHOUT due process, then they are all hypocrites and should be removed from Congressexistence..

They should issue a formal apology to Bush Jr. for their criticizing of the Patriot Act, water boarding, wire tapping, and "enhanced interrogation". After all, how can you be for assassinating American citizens but against all the other??

Fixed

 

[Sonikku]

I seriously lay awake at night worrying Obama is going to come for me in the night with a drone strike outside my house. I have made my displeasure of him known on a regular basis and I strongly suspect it is only a matter of time before I see a drone outside my window or my house blows up. The people he murders haven't done anything wrong besides criticizing his failure as president.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I seriously lay awake at night worrying Obama is going to come for me in the night with a drone strike outside my house. I have made my displeasure of him known on a regular basis and I strongly suspect it is only a matter of time before I see a drone outside my window or my house blows up. The people he murders haven't done anything wrong besides criticizing his failure as president.

You can drone proof the space under your bed with common materials. For more information please send a SASE with $500 American dollars for more information which could save your life!

 

[spittledip]

If the US was as bad as some people say it is, those people would have been "disappeared" by the government long ago.

Read up on what a real totalitarian state is like. This ain't it.

There are millions of Chinese citizens who would give almost anything for the level of "totalitarianism" we have here in the US.

The idea is that we are moving in that direction. I don't think anyone really thinks we are in a totalitarian state on this forum.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Of course we're heading in that direction. Because, whether they admit it or not, that's what Americans want.

They want to be "safe". They don't care what that implies.

They think the government's job is not to protect and defend the Constitution, but their personal lives and property.

They are, as Benjamin Franklin said, willing to give up liberty to achieve a little temporary safety, and thus deserve neither.

 

[spittledip]

Of course we're heading in that direction. Because, whether they admit it or not, that's what Americans want.

They want to be "safe". They don't care what that implies.

They think the government's job is not to protect and defend the Constitution, but their personal lives and property.

They are, as Benjamin Franklin said, willing to give up liberty to achieve a little temporary safety, and thus deserve neither.

Well, I think it is reasonable to give up a little "freedom" as freedom is something that can never be completely obtained in a society unless you want to move toward chaos. So, as it is, we have never had complete freedom. The problem is that we are moving toward chaos, so the govt reacts by using more invasive tactics.

We need to moderate the tactics the got uses, but most people feel they have absolutely no control over what the govt is doing. I really think that is the root of the problem- the lack of control. I guess that even if Romney had been voted into office, we would still be moving in the same direction.