Things that probably wouldn't exist today if not for the hip hop culture?

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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
There is a fine line between hip-hop and rap much like between rock and pop.

Many of the celebrities promote a thug-style/the law is for you not me image. The funny part is many that frown upon it and that it as their mission to censor it...try to live the same way.

Not related directly, but along the same line of thought; I have known of three married men that carry around a bible everywhere they go, attend church at least 2 times a week and on average 3-4 times for various things. Yet these same dudes are always all over all the 20 somethings usually bashing their wife's in one breath while saying they wished they met someone as wholesome as them (these chicks are far from wholesome) earlier in life :confused:

It's not hip-hop that's messing up society, nor rap....it's simply parents being friends instead of parents. Kids learn by example, when they see mom and dad getting wasted, driving with roadrage, stealing, etc; they learn. When they do something totally wrong, yet mom and dad defend them from store security, their teachers, other adults who are in the right; it teaches them they are above the law until someone puts them in their place.

 
S

SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: DiZASTiX

No. see you missed my whole point. You still don't know what hip-hop is so any sentence you use with that word is irrelevant. You're still basing your ideas on what the media is showing you, so you're only seeing it the way they want you to see it, like what you see on MTV, BET etc...stop making one part of what you perceive the embodiment of how you define hip-hop. Let's look at your statement:

"[the "hip-hop"] that [some] of [these rappers "live"] is [a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history]."

in other words

crime is bad. some people commit crime. all people are bad.

Do you see how this lacks logic? At least, this is how I'm understanding what you're saying, but please, correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

Hint: MTV is NOT hip-hop, BET is NOT hip-hop, 50 Cent is NOT hip-hop, the kid that deals drugs in your neighborhood and blasts loud rap music in his car is NOT hip-hop.


I've heard this before. Lots of people who profess the Hip-Hop "lifestyle" make claims like this. I've never heard one of them explain what hip-hop is and exactly how it's different from most people's perception of it.

Is rap music integral to the hip-hop lifestyle? What kinds of rap? If 50-cent isn't part of it, what is? How do you make that distinction?
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
hip-hop was founded with the idea it would take teenagers who were heading down the wrong path and probably would end up selling drugs & joining gangs and giving them an outlet to express themselves in a creative nonvoilent way. Instead of gang fights, 2 squads of dancers would have breaking contents. It was about peace, you'd get down with some popping and locking, and whoever won was better, but there was no fighting afterwards.


hip-hop is basically expression, you can't say it's gang banging, using drugs, big rims. It really doesn't have boundaries, and believe it or not the majority of the people who follow the culture are positive. Remember there are tens of millions of fans world wide (probably a lot more) what you see on MTV and BET and hear on the radio isn't a fair or accurate representation of what hip-hop is. Are there more bad seeds then in other forms of music? sure, but that probably should be expected seeing how it has by far the largest fan base of any music world wide.

 

DiZASTiX

Senior member
Jun 8, 2003
677
0
0
Originally posted by: QueBert
hip-hop was founded with the idea it would take teenagers who were heading down the wrong path and probably would end up selling drugs & joining gangs and giving them an outlet to express themselves in a creative nonvoilent way. Instead of gang fights, 2 squads of dancers would have breaking contents. It was about peace, you'd get down with some popping and locking, and whoever won was better, but there was no fighting afterwards.


hip-hop is basically expression, you can't say it's gang banging, using drugs, big rims. It really doesn't have boundaries, and believe it or not the majority of the people who follow the culture are positive. Remember there are tens of millions of fans world wide (probably a lot more) what you see on MTV and BET and hear on the radio isn't a fair or accurate representation of what hip-hop is. Are there more bad seeds then in other forms of music? sure, but that probably should be expected seeing how it has by far the largest fan base of any music world wide.

co-sign! you took the words right out of my mouth.

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX

No. see you missed my whole point. You still don't know what hip-hop is so any sentence you use with that word is irrelevant. You're still basing your ideas on what the media is showing you, so you're only seeing it the way they want you to see it, like what you see on MTV, BET etc...stop making one part of what you perceive the embodiment of how you define hip-hop. Let's look at your statement:

"[the "hip-hop"] that [some] of [these rappers "live"] is [a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history]."

in other words

crime is bad. some people commit crime. all people are bad.

Do you see how this lacks logic? At least, this is how I'm understanding what you're saying, but please, correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

Hint: MTV is NOT hip-hop, BET is NOT hip-hop, 50 Cent is NOT hip-hop, the kid that deals drugs in your neighborhood and blasts loud rap music in his car is NOT hip-hop.


I've heard this before. Lots of people who profess the Hip-Hop "lifestyle" make claims like this. I've never heard one of them explain what hip-hop is and exactly how it's different from most people's perception of it.

Is rap music integral to the hip-hop lifestyle? What kinds of rap? If 50-cent isn't part of it, what is? How do you make that distinction?

First, thanks for inquiring about this instead of just dismissing my views completely. Yes, rap music is definitely integral to hip-hop. Its a huuuge part of it. All types of rap; hardcore, "political", gangsta, backpack, underground, alternative, conscious...its all hip-hop. Obviously there's going to be different branches of hip-hop. The only thing I meant when I said 50 cent isn't hip-hop is that he, himself and the music he makes is not WHAT hip-hop IS. However, it is, without a doubt, a PART of hip-hop. I just feel that too many people see someone like 50 cent and think his mind state, views and songs are the definition of hip-hop or a hip-hop lifestyle. As for what hip-hop is, QueBert's post I quoted above gives a lot of insight towards that, and I agree with him 100%. Especially when he says "It really doesn't have boundaries", it doesn't. Like he said, it's a form of expression. I hope I helped in some way answer your questions...
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
Originally posted by: QueBert
Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Johnny Cash Lyrics (FYI I love him, just making a point)
Folsom Prison Blue
But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die
now every time I hear that whistle I hang my head and cry..


A Boy Named Sue
Well, I grew up quick and I grew up mean,
My fist got hard and my wits got keen,
I'd roam from town to town to hide my shame.
But I made a vow to the moon and stars
That I'd search the beloved patriot-tonks and bars
And kill that man who gave me that awful name.

Well, I hit him hard right between the eyes
And he went down, but to my surprise,
He come up with a knife and cut off a piece of my ear.
But I busted a chair right across his teeth
And we crashed through the wall and into the street
Kicking and a' gouging in the mud and the blood and the beer.

Johnny Cash was white and wasn't a rapper, so him with violent lyrics really isn't an issue.

And for the record those lyrics are fairly tame, but look how old the songs are. Back then they were on par with what you hear today.

In all of Johnny Cash's Lyrics there is always some form of regret or remorse for it. Cash's lyrics are meant to bring out sadness or irony in the boy named sue. But in RAP, there is no remorse or regret; just a celebration of murder and debauchery; because I am me and don't mess with me or take mees parking spotz beeoootch nn1gg3r or I'll kill you!
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,123
12
81
Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Johnny Cash Lyrics (FYI I love him, just making a point)
Folsom Prison Blue
But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die
now every time I hear that whistle I hang my head and cry..


A Boy Named Sue
Well, I grew up quick and I grew up mean,
My fist got hard and my wits got keen,
I'd roam from town to town to hide my shame.
But I made a vow to the moon and stars
That I'd search the beloved patriot-tonks and bars
And kill that man who gave me that awful name.

Well, I hit him hard right between the eyes
And he went down, but to my surprise,
He come up with a knife and cut off a piece of my ear.
But I busted a chair right across his teeth
And we crashed through the wall and into the street
Kicking and a' gouging in the mud and the blood and the beer.

Johnny Cash sung of killing, the outlaw life and prison, but he did not glorify it. He sang about how the subject of the songs wished he could have a different life and all his regrets. Given the choice, the Johnny Cash characters would have chosen the straight and narrow.

MotionMan
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,123
12
81
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
I used to take offense and get angry when I heard people talk about hip-hop like most people are in this thread, but then I realized that the people making these statements were really saying nothing. I've read every post in here and there was one or two intelligent posts. Other than that, judging solely on what most of you have said so far, 99% of you don't know what hip hop culture is. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I'm just saying you don't know what it is, so anything you're going to say about it is just going to be ignorant. Let me put it in perspective, it would be like me answering a question about car hardware based on knowledge I gathered from watching 2 Fast 2 Furious, yeah...that bad.

The OP asked about HIP-HOP CULTURE. So far, I've really only seen rap music discussed. Hip-hop is SO much more than just rap music. So, to the OP, things that probably wouldn't exist today if not for hip-hop culture? Most of my friendships probably wouldn't exist, the life I lead wouldn't exist, it would be completely different. I wouldn't exist, because the person who I am wouldn't be the same. Of course this is only my case, and only because hip-hop and music are a huge part of my life, hip-hop is the way I live. I don't expect most people to understand that, but it is what it is...

"Rap is something you do, Hip-hop is something you live"
- KRS One

Alright, I'm done for now...

(PS. To the dude who said tentacle porn, I laughed out loud for a good 5 minutes. Thanks.)

ok, and the "hip-hop" that some of these rappers "live" is a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history. happy?

No. see you missed my whole point. You still don't know what hip-hop is so any sentence you use with that word is irrelevant. You're still basing your ideas on what the media is showing you, so you're only seeing it the way they want you to see it, like what you see on MTV, BET etc...stop making one part of what you perceive the embodiment of how you define hip-hop. Let's look at your statement:

"[the "hip-hop"] that [some] of [these rappers "live"] is [a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history]."

in other words

crime is bad. some people commit crime. all people are bad.

Do you see how this lacks logic? At least, this is how I'm understanding what you're saying, but please, correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

Hint: MTV is NOT hip-hop, BET is NOT hip-hop, 50 Cent is NOT hip-hop, the kid that deals drugs in your neighborhood and blasts loud rap music in his car is NOT hip-hop.

So, are you saying that the hip-hop life-style is one that preaches peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man?

MotionMan

You're still defining hip-hop solely through rap lyrics. So if you want to look at it like that, fine. Then if you're asking are there some rappers that preach peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man in their lyrics, yes, there is. But guess what, mainstream society doesn't eat that up, you don't hear it, you don't see it, so you assume it doesn't exist. Stop being so single minded about the issue.

Did I mention rap? I asked you the following:

"So, are you saying that the hip-hop life-style is one that preaches peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man?"

Well, are you?

MotinoMan

Oh, my mistake. I thought you were talking about rap because when you said "preaches" I thought you were talking about what is said in rap songs.

To answer your question, yes I do think it preaches peace and love but if by "obeying the law" you mean following every law without question and follow it just because its a law, then I agree, it doesn't preach that.

I am seriously confused: What or who is the voice of hip-hop?


BTW, I think you know EXACTLY what I mean by "obeying the law". I drive over the speed limit, but I would say that, in general, I obey the law. There are parts of society that defy laws for certain purposes (public protest being the most obvious example) that I would generally still call law-abiding (in a limited sense).

Selling illegal drugs (I will even exclude MJ from that so as to not confuse the argument), murder, rape, grand theft auto - those are the types of laws I think almost everyone would expect upstanding members of our society to obey. THAT is what I mean by "obeying the law".

MotionMan
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,123
12
81
Originally posted by: QueBert
hip-hop was founded with the idea it would take teenagers who were heading down the wrong path and probably would end up selling drugs & joining gangs and giving them an outlet to express themselves in a creative nonvoilent way. Instead of gang fights, 2 squads of dancers would have breaking contents. It was about peace, you'd get down with some popping and locking, and whoever won was better, but there was no fighting afterwards.

So which came first, hip-hop or this?

;)

motionMan
 

DiZASTiX

Senior member
Jun 8, 2003
677
0
0
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
I used to take offense and get angry when I heard people talk about hip-hop like most people are in this thread, but then I realized that the people making these statements were really saying nothing. I've read every post in here and there was one or two intelligent posts. Other than that, judging solely on what most of you have said so far, 99% of you don't know what hip hop culture is. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I'm just saying you don't know what it is, so anything you're going to say about it is just going to be ignorant. Let me put it in perspective, it would be like me answering a question about car hardware based on knowledge I gathered from watching 2 Fast 2 Furious, yeah...that bad.

The OP asked about HIP-HOP CULTURE. So far, I've really only seen rap music discussed. Hip-hop is SO much more than just rap music. So, to the OP, things that probably wouldn't exist today if not for hip-hop culture? Most of my friendships probably wouldn't exist, the life I lead wouldn't exist, it would be completely different. I wouldn't exist, because the person who I am wouldn't be the same. Of course this is only my case, and only because hip-hop and music are a huge part of my life, hip-hop is the way I live. I don't expect most people to understand that, but it is what it is...

"Rap is something you do, Hip-hop is something you live"
- KRS One

Alright, I'm done for now...

(PS. To the dude who said tentacle porn, I laughed out loud for a good 5 minutes. Thanks.)

ok, and the "hip-hop" that some of these rappers "live" is a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history. happy?

No. see you missed my whole point. You still don't know what hip-hop is so any sentence you use with that word is irrelevant. You're still basing your ideas on what the media is showing you, so you're only seeing it the way they want you to see it, like what you see on MTV, BET etc...stop making one part of what you perceive the embodiment of how you define hip-hop. Let's look at your statement:

"[the "hip-hop"] that [some] of [these rappers "live"] is [a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history]."

in other words

crime is bad. some people commit crime. all people are bad.

Do you see how this lacks logic? At least, this is how I'm understanding what you're saying, but please, correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

Hint: MTV is NOT hip-hop, BET is NOT hip-hop, 50 Cent is NOT hip-hop, the kid that deals drugs in your neighborhood and blasts loud rap music in his car is NOT hip-hop.

So, are you saying that the hip-hop life-style is one that preaches peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man?

MotionMan

You're still defining hip-hop solely through rap lyrics. So if you want to look at it like that, fine. Then if you're asking are there some rappers that preach peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man in their lyrics, yes, there is. But guess what, mainstream society doesn't eat that up, you don't hear it, you don't see it, so you assume it doesn't exist. Stop being so single minded about the issue.

Did I mention rap? I asked you the following:

"So, are you saying that the hip-hop life-style is one that preaches peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man?"

Well, are you?

MotinoMan

Oh, my mistake. I thought you were talking about rap because when you said "preaches" I thought you were talking about what is said in rap songs.

To answer your question, yes I do think it preaches peace and love but if by "obeying the law" you mean following every law without question and follow it just because its a law, then I agree, it doesn't preach that.

I am seriously confused: What or who is the voice of hip-hop?


BTW, I think you know EXACTLY what I mean by "obeying the law". I drive over the speed limit, but I would say that, in general, I obey the law. There are parts of society that defy laws for certain purposes (public protest being the most obvious example) that I would generally still call law-abiding (in a limited sense).

Selling illegal drugs (I will even exclude MJ from that so as to not confuse the argument), murder, rape, grand theft auto - those are the types of laws I think almost everyone would expect upstanding members of our society to obey. THAT is what I mean by "obeying the law".

MotionMan

Hip-hop isn't one person or one persons views, ideas, etc. so I guess there's no "voice" of hip-hop. Its not a strict set of rules that someone sets and everything that is hip-hop must follow those rules or its not hip-hop.

Also, not every rap song glorifies murder, drugs, rape or whatever else you want to say. You're still saying hip-hop causes all these things, which it doesn't, and act like thats all it does. Just because hip-hop doesn't benefit you, doesn't mean it can't benefit anyone.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,123
12
81
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: DiZASTiX
I used to take offense and get angry when I heard people talk about hip-hop like most people are in this thread, but then I realized that the people making these statements were really saying nothing. I've read every post in here and there was one or two intelligent posts. Other than that, judging solely on what most of you have said so far, 99% of you don't know what hip hop culture is. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I'm just saying you don't know what it is, so anything you're going to say about it is just going to be ignorant. Let me put it in perspective, it would be like me answering a question about car hardware based on knowledge I gathered from watching 2 Fast 2 Furious, yeah...that bad.

The OP asked about HIP-HOP CULTURE. So far, I've really only seen rap music discussed. Hip-hop is SO much more than just rap music. So, to the OP, things that probably wouldn't exist today if not for hip-hop culture? Most of my friendships probably wouldn't exist, the life I lead wouldn't exist, it would be completely different. I wouldn't exist, because the person who I am wouldn't be the same. Of course this is only my case, and only because hip-hop and music are a huge part of my life, hip-hop is the way I live. I don't expect most people to understand that, but it is what it is...

"Rap is something you do, Hip-hop is something you live"
- KRS One

Alright, I'm done for now...

(PS. To the dude who said tentacle porn, I laughed out loud for a good 5 minutes. Thanks.)

ok, and the "hip-hop" that some of these rappers "live" is a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history. happy?

No. see you missed my whole point. You still don't know what hip-hop is so any sentence you use with that word is irrelevant. You're still basing your ideas on what the media is showing you, so you're only seeing it the way they want you to see it, like what you see on MTV, BET etc...stop making one part of what you perceive the embodiment of how you define hip-hop. Let's look at your statement:

"[the "hip-hop"] that [some] of [these rappers "live"] is [a life that glorifies crime, or glorifies past criminal history]."

in other words

crime is bad. some people commit crime. all people are bad.

Do you see how this lacks logic? At least, this is how I'm understanding what you're saying, but please, correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

Hint: MTV is NOT hip-hop, BET is NOT hip-hop, 50 Cent is NOT hip-hop, the kid that deals drugs in your neighborhood and blasts loud rap music in his car is NOT hip-hop.

So, are you saying that the hip-hop life-style is one that preaches peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man?

MotionMan

You're still defining hip-hop solely through rap lyrics. So if you want to look at it like that, fine. Then if you're asking are there some rappers that preach peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man in their lyrics, yes, there is. But guess what, mainstream society doesn't eat that up, you don't hear it, you don't see it, so you assume it doesn't exist. Stop being so single minded about the issue.

Did I mention rap? I asked you the following:

"So, are you saying that the hip-hop life-style is one that preaches peace, obeying the law and love for your fellow man?"

Well, are you?

MotinoMan

Oh, my mistake. I thought you were talking about rap because when you said "preaches" I thought you were talking about what is said in rap songs.

To answer your question, yes I do think it preaches peace and love but if by "obeying the law" you mean following every law without question and follow it just because its a law, then I agree, it doesn't preach that.

I am seriously confused: What or who is the voice of hip-hop?


BTW, I think you know EXACTLY what I mean by "obeying the law". I drive over the speed limit, but I would say that, in general, I obey the law. There are parts of society that defy laws for certain purposes (public protest being the most obvious example) that I would generally still call law-abiding (in a limited sense).

Selling illegal drugs (I will even exclude MJ from that so as to not confuse the argument), murder, rape, grand theft auto - those are the types of laws I think almost everyone would expect upstanding members of our society to obey. THAT is what I mean by "obeying the law".

MotionMan

Hip-hop isn't one person or one persons views, ideas, etc. so I guess there's no "voice" of hip-hop. Its not a strict set of rules that someone sets and everything that is hip-hop must follow those rules or its not hip-hop.

Also, not every rap song glorifies murder, drugs, rape or whatever else you want to say. You're still saying hip-hop causes all these things, which it doesn't, and act like thats all it does. Just because hip-hop doesn't benefit you, doesn't mean it can't benefit anyone.

So what is this "Hip-Hop" of which you speak? Define it. Give me EXAMPLES of people or rules that are "Hip-Hop".

MotionMan
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
there are no rules to hip-hop, it's allows for total free thinking and expression. This is why you have people who rap about killing cops, people who rap about sex, ones who rap about uplifting their people, people who rap about abstract stuff. It's not limited to any one area and you can't really define it beyond saying it's the reciting of rhyming words over music. You're trying to make hip-hop out to be one exact thing, when it's a million things.

I mean if you go buy a new truck and get the upgraded package chances are it will come with with 20" rims, technically you could consider that Hip-Hop because without Hip-Hop we definitely wouldn't have big rims on our cars.

rap is the music side and Hip-Hop is the way they dress, dance, DJ and do graffiti, but outside of those exacts it's anything goes. Even the way they dress can be as different as super baggy pants to tight polo shirts and slacks.

If you take Metallica rocking out and throw a person rapping on it, it becomes rap. Hip-Hop adapts to whatever you toss it in. My mom hates Kid Rock because he raps (sometimes anywho) her big problem with rap is "it's not music! it's noise!" but I showed her a Kid Rock video where he was playing the piano and guitar I asked her "how is that not music?" "it's still rap so it's crap!" For every argument people have as to why they don't like it.

it's not music! - Kid Rock, Roots are examples of bands who rap there's music! but they still refuse to accept it "rap is crap!"
it's violent and misogynistic - play them something very positive and uplifting like De La Soul, won't even have cursing, they still say "rap is crap!"

It's really a loose loose situation to try and explain what hip-hop really is to somebody who hates it without knowing much about it. I don't expect to convert people, as they already have their minds made up. I just like to point out their contradictions, if you hate rap hate rap but don't make up reasons that can be debunked.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,123
12
81
Originally posted by: QueBert
there are no rules to hip-hop, it's allows for total free thinking and expression. This is why you have people who rap about killing cops, people who rap about sex, ones who rap about uplifting their people, people who rap about abstract stuff. It's not limited to any one area and you can't really define it beyond saying it's the reciting of rhyming words over music. You're trying to make hip-hop out to be one exact thing, when it's a million things.

I mean if you go buy a new truck and get the upgraded package chances are it will come with with 20" rims, technically you could consider that Hip-Hop because without Hip-Hop we definitely wouldn't have big rims on our cars.

rap is the music side and Hip-Hop is the way they dress, dance, DJ and do graffiti, but outside of those exacts it's anything goes. Even the way they dress can be as different as super baggy pants to tight polo shirts and slacks.

If you take Metallica rocking out and throw a person rapping on it, it becomes rap. Hip-Hop adapts to whatever you toss it in. My mom hates Kid Rock because he raps (sometimes anywho) her big problem with rap is "it's not music! it's noise!" but I showed her a Kid Rock video where he was playing the piano and guitar I asked her "how is that not music?" "it's still rap so it's crap!" For every argument people have as to why they don't like it.

it's not music! - Kid Rock, Roots are examples of bands who rap there's music! but they still refuse to accept it "rap is crap!"
it's violent and misogynistic - play them something very positive and uplifting like De La Soul, won't even have cursing, they still say "rap is crap!"

It's really a loose loose situation to try and explain what hip-hop really is to somebody who hates it without knowing much about it. I don't expect to convert people, as they already have their minds made up. I just like to point out their contradictions, if you hate rap hate rap but don't make up reasons that can be debunked.

Sounds like you think hip-hop is everything and nothing at the same time - no rules, no boundaries, nothing to compliment and nothing to criticize. In fact, hip-hop cannot be understood by those who do not like it so, in order to have an opinion regarding hip-hop, you must like it. Or, to put it another way, if you do not like hip-hop, you must not understand it or you must not know what it is.

MotionMan
 

rocadelpunk

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
5,589
1
81
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: QueBert
there are no rules to hip-hop, it's allows for total free thinking and expression. This is why you have people who rap about killing cops, people who rap about sex, ones who rap about uplifting their people, people who rap about abstract stuff. It's not limited to any one area and you can't really define it beyond saying it's the reciting of rhyming words over music. You're trying to make hip-hop out to be one exact thing, when it's a million things.

I mean if you go buy a new truck and get the upgraded package chances are it will come with with 20" rims, technically you could consider that Hip-Hop because without Hip-Hop we definitely wouldn't have big rims on our cars.

rap is the music side and Hip-Hop is the way they dress, dance, DJ and do graffiti, but outside of those exacts it's anything goes. Even the way they dress can be as different as super baggy pants to tight polo shirts and slacks.

If you take Metallica rocking out and throw a person rapping on it, it becomes rap. Hip-Hop adapts to whatever you toss it in. My mom hates Kid Rock because he raps (sometimes anywho) her big problem with rap is "it's not music! it's noise!" but I showed her a Kid Rock video where he was playing the piano and guitar I asked her "how is that not music?" "it's still rap so it's crap!" For every argument people have as to why they don't like it.

it's not music! - Kid Rock, Roots are examples of bands who rap there's music! but they still refuse to accept it "rap is crap!"
it's violent and misogynistic - play them something very positive and uplifting like De La Soul, won't even have cursing, they still say "rap is crap!"

It's really a loose loose situation to try and explain what hip-hop really is to somebody who hates it without knowing much about it. I don't expect to convert people, as they already have their minds made up. I just like to point out their contradictions, if you hate rap hate rap but don't make up reasons that can be debunked.

Sounds like you think hip-hop is everything and nothing at the same time - no rules, no boundaries, nothing to compliment and nothing to criticize. In fact, hip-hop cannot be understood by those who do not like it so, in order to have an opinion regarding hip-hop, you must like it. Or, to put it another way, if you do not like hip-hop, you must not understand it or you must not know what it is.

MotionMan

I dunno, as someone who listens to hip-hop, that made perfect sense to me. It encompasses a wide spectrum. It's not that it's undefinable...it is just very difficult to explain. If someone gave me some source material, it would be easy for me to say oh that's mainstream rap, that's turntablism, that's underground rap or that's indie hip-hop etc...there are just layers upon layers of genre/sub-culture and there's no simple definition...just an umbrella term.

The exact same thing would happen if you said define Punk...although that's a little better understood as it's been studied and the sub-cultures are a bit more defined...i.e. goth, emo, pop-punk, mainstream, hardcore...etc.

Again though, you're dealing with an umbrella term that encompasses many things...so to say that his argument is *saying nothing* is sorta a stretch.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,123
12
81
Let's try this:

Since rap is a sub-part of hip-hop, without hip-hop we "would not have" those things associated with rap.

(Of course those things *could have* developed without rap, but that is a different discussion.)

MotionMan
 

fierydemise

Platinum Member
Apr 16, 2005
2,056
2
81
Originally posted by: rocadelpunk
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: QueBert
there are no rules to hip-hop, it's allows for total free thinking and expression. This is why you have people who rap about killing cops, people who rap about sex, ones who rap about uplifting their people, people who rap about abstract stuff. It's not limited to any one area and you can't really define it beyond saying it's the reciting of rhyming words over music. You're trying to make hip-hop out to be one exact thing, when it's a million things.

I mean if you go buy a new truck and get the upgraded package chances are it will come with with 20" rims, technically you could consider that Hip-Hop because without Hip-Hop we definitely wouldn't have big rims on our cars.

rap is the music side and Hip-Hop is the way they dress, dance, DJ and do graffiti, but outside of those exacts it's anything goes. Even the way they dress can be as different as super baggy pants to tight polo shirts and slacks.

If you take Metallica rocking out and throw a person rapping on it, it becomes rap. Hip-Hop adapts to whatever you toss it in. My mom hates Kid Rock because he raps (sometimes anywho) her big problem with rap is "it's not music! it's noise!" but I showed her a Kid Rock video where he was playing the piano and guitar I asked her "how is that not music?" "it's still rap so it's crap!" For every argument people have as to why they don't like it.

it's not music! - Kid Rock, Roots are examples of bands who rap there's music! but they still refuse to accept it "rap is crap!"
it's violent and misogynistic - play them something very positive and uplifting like De La Soul, won't even have cursing, they still say "rap is crap!"

It's really a loose loose situation to try and explain what hip-hop really is to somebody who hates it without knowing much about it. I don't expect to convert people, as they already have their minds made up. I just like to point out their contradictions, if you hate rap hate rap but don't make up reasons that can be debunked.

Sounds like you think hip-hop is everything and nothing at the same time - no rules, no boundaries, nothing to compliment and nothing to criticize. In fact, hip-hop cannot be understood by those who do not like it so, in order to have an opinion regarding hip-hop, you must like it. Or, to put it another way, if you do not like hip-hop, you must not understand it or you must not know what it is.

MotionMan

I dunno, as someone who listens to hip-hop, that made perfect sense to me. It encompasses a wide spectrum. It's not that it's undefinable...it is just very difficult to explain. If someone gave me some source material, it would be easy for me to say oh that's mainstream rap, that's turntablism, that's underground rap or that's indie hip-hop etc...there are just layers upon layers of genre/sub-culture and there's no simple definition...just an umbrella term.

The exact same thing would happen if you said define Punk...although that's a little better understood as it's been studied and the sub-cultures are a bit more defined...i.e. goth, emo, pop-punk, mainstream, hardcore...etc.

Again though, you're dealing with an umbrella term that encompasses many things...so to say that his argument is *saying nothing* is sorta a stretch.
I believe National Geographic Magazine had a story on the roots of Hip Hop culture a couple months ago.
 

rocadelpunk

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
5,589
1
81
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Let's try this:

Since rap is a sub-part of hip-hop, without hip-hop we "would not have" those things associated with rap.

(Of course those things *could have* developed without rap, but that is a different discussion.)

MotionMan

Well, that's a bit obvious. You knock down the first domino and the rest just fall...but sure : P
 

rocadelpunk

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
5,589
1
81
Originally posted by: fierydemise
Originally posted by: rocadelpunk
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: QueBert
there are no rules to hip-hop, it's allows for total free thinking and expression. This is why you have people who rap about killing cops, people who rap about sex, ones who rap about uplifting their people, people who rap about abstract stuff. It's not limited to any one area and you can't really define it beyond saying it's the reciting of rhyming words over music. You're trying to make hip-hop out to be one exact thing, when it's a million things.

I mean if you go buy a new truck and get the upgraded package chances are it will come with with 20" rims, technically you could consider that Hip-Hop because without Hip-Hop we definitely wouldn't have big rims on our cars.

rap is the music side and Hip-Hop is the way they dress, dance, DJ and do graffiti, but outside of those exacts it's anything goes. Even the way they dress can be as different as super baggy pants to tight polo shirts and slacks.

If you take Metallica rocking out and throw a person rapping on it, it becomes rap. Hip-Hop adapts to whatever you toss it in. My mom hates Kid Rock because he raps (sometimes anywho) her big problem with rap is "it's not music! it's noise!" but I showed her a Kid Rock video where he was playing the piano and guitar I asked her "how is that not music?" "it's still rap so it's crap!" For every argument people have as to why they don't like it.

it's not music! - Kid Rock, Roots are examples of bands who rap there's music! but they still refuse to accept it "rap is crap!"
it's violent and misogynistic - play them something very positive and uplifting like De La Soul, won't even have cursing, they still say "rap is crap!"

It's really a loose loose situation to try and explain what hip-hop really is to somebody who hates it without knowing much about it. I don't expect to convert people, as they already have their minds made up. I just like to point out their contradictions, if you hate rap hate rap but don't make up reasons that can be debunked.

Sounds like you think hip-hop is everything and nothing at the same time - no rules, no boundaries, nothing to compliment and nothing to criticize. In fact, hip-hop cannot be understood by those who do not like it so, in order to have an opinion regarding hip-hop, you must like it. Or, to put it another way, if you do not like hip-hop, you must not understand it or you must not know what it is.

MotionMan

I dunno, as someone who listens to hip-hop, that made perfect sense to me. It encompasses a wide spectrum. It's not that it's undefinable...it is just very difficult to explain. If someone gave me some source material, it would be easy for me to say oh that's mainstream rap, that's turntablism, that's underground rap or that's indie hip-hop etc...there are just layers upon layers of genre/sub-culture and there's no simple definition...just an umbrella term.

The exact same thing would happen if you said define Punk...although that's a little better understood as it's been studied and the sub-cultures are a bit more defined...i.e. goth, emo, pop-punk, mainstream, hardcore...etc.

Again though, you're dealing with an umbrella term that encompasses many things...so to say that his argument is *saying nothing* is sorta a stretch.
I believe National Geographic Magazine had a story on the roots of Hip Hop culture a couple months ago.

hip hop culture has definitely been studied, what I meant to say was I think that punk and its sub-cultures have been studied a bit more extensively


-----


edit: I would also like to add, I think where a lot of the confusion comes from in defining various elements of hip hop sub-cultures is that there is quite a bit of overlap. Hence, you get you get people who say all rap is bad and then there's people like who say...nay you have to look at this piece a bit more in depth. Should be thanking us, we do all the hard work for you to find the good : P
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Alright, some of you are so uninformed of what you're speaking of, and I'm going to have to set you straight.

Super expensive car stereo systems would still be around, I for one have one, and I blast electronic and some punk.

Huge pants that you can make parachutes out of would still be around, seeing as rave culture also invented its own style, with no help from hip-hop culture, mind you.

The Hummer H2 would be just as strong, considering the majority of their drivers are middle aged white men and women who "luv amurika", and who think imports are "gay".

Now, barring those things, I agree that rap today is pathetic mostly. MOSTLY. There are a couple artists who still have the soul from the 70s-80s.

Crunk is not music, it's animals cursing and mouthing off to a crappy beat. Not to mention I could make tracks 10x better in my studio in about 5 minutes. Screw timbaland.

Also, I'm pretty sure that spinners would still be around, there are plenty of retarded white boys who love them.