They're here, they're queer, more getting used to it

[Craig234]

As someone who leans strongly libertarian...

Speaking of defects.

 

[pcslookout]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hlVBg7_08n0

 

[Double Trouble]

It's not a choice, it's a birth defect.

Correct.

 

[Murloc]

from an evolutionary POV, it's a birth defect because the individual will not reproduce and pass on the genes.
If someone can still form babbies and discovers he's gay later, it's not though, because reproduction happened despite the gayness. I guess the same goes for rental uteruses for gay couples if it comes to that.
So it may not be a defect anymore in the future. Also from a more human/happiness point of view, it's not a defect if the gay individual doesn't want kids anyway or is content with adoption.

 

[crashtestdummy]

This does not make sense. There is no defect when it comes to skin color or eye color. These are traits passed on from your family and are supposed to vary. Sexual orientation is not a variable. All living things are made to be able to survive and reproduce, it's not optional, or the species will no longer exist. So if you are gay, well, you are doing it wrong.

The truth is somewhere in between. There is certainly an evolutionary drive for most people to be straight, but I think the presumption that gay people are "doing it wrong" massively oversimplifies sexuality, as if the difference between being attracted to men and being attracted to women were as simple as flipping a single genetic "switch". Even if human sexuality were wholly genetic (of which I'm not exactly sure), it's unlikely that it's a single gene mutation that causes you to be gay.

Human sexuality is incredibly complex and unpredictable, which means that it's probably in our evolutionary best interest to be intensely sexual in general, and if that means that some of us are sexual in a way that doesn't lead to reproduction, so be it. It's far better than if the species were less interested in sex as a whole.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Naturally a church like that would be largely composed of "reformed" gays. It always made me sad to see gays who claimed they had converted due to their religious beliefs. They had to be under a lot of mental strain pretty much all the time; consumed with guilt over feelings they couldn't control and filled with fear over the prospect of going to hell despite their efforts. It's gotta suck.

 

[Greenman]

A birth defect?? Then that's amusing because homosexual behavior is common in nature across a dozen different species, contrary to what the Baptist and other churches preach. And that's not even delving into other species that change their own gender, or exist as both genders simultaneously.



When even positive-outlooking teens that have devoted their spare time to counseling and helping other LGBT kids work through the harassment and hate and other issues ends up abruptly committing suicide over the very same reasons, you know there's a problem. I wish I could remember his name, happened within the last 1-2 years and he'd been featured on NBC News twice for the work he'd been doing.

I've never accepted the "it's ok cause animals do it argument". Animals sniff each others asses, they eat their young, they eat their own shit. I have no desire to emulate any of those natural behaviors.

 

[preslove]

Bonobos, which are almost as close to humans as chimps, and they engage in homosexual behavior A LOT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior

Before the advent of agriculture, it's not unlikely that humans had a similar style of sexual style, with lots of group sex. One example to back this up is the fact that the vaginas of human females get wet when they hear the sexual cries of other females. It's very possible that it was "natural" for humans to have same sex encounters in whatever group sex sessions they were having.

Human sexuality COMPLETELY changed with the advent of agriculture and the start of civilization. Private property didn't exist beforehand, and treating women and their offspring as property didn't, either. Heterosexuality, as it's practiced presently, is not "natural" and has nothing to do with evolution or natural selection.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I've never accepted the "it's ok cause animals do it argument". Animals sniff each others asses, they eat their young, they eat their own shit. I have no desire to emulate any of those natural behaviors.

I don't even really see calling homosexuality a "defect" as a value judgement against gays, which is why I think some people fight against that term. It's just probably true. I wear glasses because a similar widespread defect which happens a lot in nature. *shrug*

 

[preslove]

I've never accepted the "it's ok cause animals do it argument". Animals sniff each others asses, they eat their young, they eat their own shit. I have no desire to emulate any of those natural behaviors.

Guess what, homo-sapiens are dumb animals. Not as dumb as the rest of the animal kingdom, but many of our behaviors are there because we're animals that evolved on the African Safari.

 

[soulcougher73]

We have too many people already on the planet. Bring on more gays. Also if you straight people would stop producing gays that might help

 

[TheAdvocate]

from an evolutionary POV, it's a birth defect because the individual will not reproduce and pass on the genes.

Is it a birth defect if its purpose is a natural reaction to potential overpopulation?

Maybe it's biologically intentional?

Just putting that out there.

I realize it would not be conclusive from a causation standpoint, but I have often wondered about the correlation between frequency among stable habitats with long average lifespans vs occurrences in societies that are plagued with harsh or unstable living conditions and short life spans...

I'm a straight married guy who admittedly can't really understand how you could be attracted to your own sex. However, I will tell you this - I appreciate the fact that none of the gay people I know is a violent criminal. Purely anecdotal, but I suspect that it is a statistically provable fact that the % of violent criminals in gay populations is remarkably lower than the general population. As I get older, and raise kids, that becomes more and more important to me.

So why is it important that we not ostracize these folks...? Besides not being dickish and denying basic freedoms and happiness? If you actually need other reasons then go chew on those two for a while.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Bonobos, which are almost as close to humans as chimps, and they engage in homosexual behavior A LOT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior

Before the advent of agriculture, it's not unlikely that humans had a similar style of sexual style, with lots of group sex. One example to back this up is the fact that the vaginas of human females get wet when they hear the sexual cries of other females. It's very possible that it was "natural" for humans to have same sex encounters in whatever group sex sessions they were having.

Human sexuality COMPLETELY changed with the advent of agriculture and the start of civilization. Private property didn't exist beforehand, and treating women and their offspring as property didn't, either. Heterosexuality, as it's practiced presently, is not "natural" and has nothing to do with evolution or natural selection.

As a hetero male, it's not often I pop wood in a gay rights thread.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

How does that work with swingers then, they dont care which?...so its a choice then?...phuct up if you ask me!

I think you have swingers confused with bisexual

 

[surfsatwerk]

It's not a choice, it's a birth defect.

You're a birth defect.

 

[Platypus]

you guys are too easily baited

 

[Craig234]

Let's say it's a birth defect - that has nothing to do with their rights.

Should a person born impotent be denied the equal right to marry who he loves?

 

[Nintendesert]

Maybe homosexuality is the normal. Maybe heterosexuality is the defect.

Maybe life is death and sportage isn't retarded!

 

[Greenman]

Guess what, homo-sapiens are dumb animals. Not as dumb as the rest of the animal kingdom, but many of our behaviors are there because we're animals that evolved on the African Safari.

We absolutely did NOT evolve on the African safari.

 

[Greenman]

you guys are too easily baited

Actually they're not. I gave it a shot and only got one luke warm response. It's like they don't even care anymore.

 

[Mixolydian]

This thread hurts my brain.

 

[lxskllr]

We absolutely did NOT evolve on the African safari.

Speak for yourself. After that ride at Animal Kingdom, I was a changed person.

 

[sandorski]

This does not make sense. There is no defect when it comes to skin color or eye color. These are traits passed on from your family and are supposed to vary. Sexual orientation is not a variable. All living things are made to be able to survive and reproduce, it's not optional, or the species will no longer exist. So if you are gay, well, you are doing it wrong.

Not a variable?

 

[Orsorum]

Sometimes we are given the chance to learn from our mistakes and seek forgiveness from those we have wronged. I pray the former leaders of that organization find peace in their time.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

It's like "everything is illuminated" up in here.