These people are what's really wrong with America today.

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compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
I'm really hoping Mueller's team will be able to enlighten some although I have conservative friends who, with the first two rounds of russian indictments, quickly pointed out, "no collusion!!! See???". It's like these stories erode their ablity to think critically or challenge anything so long as it fits their personal politics. Sad.

It isn't Mueller's purpose to enlighten anyone. Some of you guys are hanging too much hope on Mueller bringing Trump down and I believe you're gonna be disappointed when it's all over. Remember, collusion in and of itself is not a crime. Most of those he's nailed have committed crimes that were unrelated to Trump's campaign. If Trump actually committed a crime, nail him, but I don't think it will end that way. Meanwhile, we'll keep holding court here. :)
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,956
27,638
136
It isn't Mueller's purpose to enlighten anyone. Some of you guys are hanging too much hope on Mueller bringing Trump down and I believe you're gonna be disappointed when it's all over. Remember, collusion in and of itself is not a crime. Most of those he's nailed have committed crimes that were unrelated to Trump's campaign. If Trump actually committed a crime, nail him, but I don't think it will end that way. Meanwhile, we'll keep holding court here. :)
But conspiracy is. Good ole' Donny Jr. could easily have his time in the barrel. Meeting at Trump tower knowing what it was about.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,447
7,615
136
Now I know where some of wife's Facebook friends get their news.

From the article : What she trusted most was her own ability to think critically and discern the truth, and increasingly her instincts aligned with the online community where she spent most of her time.

The bolded part is a textbook example of Dunning–Kruger effect.

This was on one of her FB feeds:

Why did you know George Soros, in collusion with Hillary, is paying gynecologists to tell pregnant Trump supporters that there is something wrong with their pregnancies and they need immediate abortions?

These people think this shit is real and comment on it
 

skooma

Senior member
Apr 13, 2006
635
28
91
Jr. would have been indicted by now, if he was going to be.
I don't know about that. I figure family will be the last to be indicted, knowing trump's propensity for wildly retaliating for any attacks he deems personal. And of course there's trump's financials which I am hoping come to light. Something has to be enough to reveal to the marks that they've been had.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
126
Except its not just 1 woman. We have 65 million and counting.

65 million and counting people who are willingly being traitors to our republic and willingly following Russian propaganda and commands.

What do we do with traitors?

Only a stupid country would install them in their Congress, Presidency and the Judiciary.

If you want to help conservatives or any other rational person, you can start by ignoring gems like this. The ease that the internet allows for the spread of mass hysteria is troubling.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,750
6,364
136
If you want to help conservatives, you can start by ignoring gems like this. The ease that the internet allows for the spread of mass hysteria is troubling.

Sayeth the person who is willingly spreading Russian lies.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,054
12,239
136
If you want to help conservatives or any other rational person, you can start by ignoring gems like this. The ease that the internet allows for the spread of mass hysteria is troubling.
Do you believe that you are a rational person?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,378
7,443
136
Who said anything about treason for this woman and her ilk? I didn't.

I'm sure you read where that came from. A not so insignificant number of posters are treating Republicans as such.

Except its not just 1 woman. We have 65 million and counting.

65 million and counting people who are willingly being traitors to our republic and willingly following Russian propaganda and commands.

What do we do with traitors?

One or two people even spoke to me of wanting a French Revolution to purge us of Republican "filth". So when treason is mentioned here, did you dispute it? No, that didn't cross your mind did it. Instead you reiterated how the situation is their fault. Which is another common theme around here. "Wilful ignorance" I hear it described as. People are accused of that all the time. As if ignorance itself is not a condition of not knowing better.

Either way, there is a profound hostility towards the "other" in this country. For Republican and Democrat alike. Across the nation, far too many people make it sound like they want our divisions to come to a head.

But it is. It started with the lie that America's first black President wasn't even American...

Obama's father was not from this country. Having a foreign background made President Obama distinguished in a way that could be uniquely exploited for a partisan attack on his background / character. In the 2000 election Bush's wife also faced an attack regarding a fatal car crash when she was 17. Her background / character was exploited. And in later years Democrats still hounded her.

Do you think Republicans alone are spiteful, or that hating people in politics started with Obama? If so, I believe we covered wilful ignorance. Although maybe you do realize just how utterly common such a thing is. And it has more to do with tribal politics "us vs them" than for whatever subject is raised on a given day. Furthermore, speaking of our decorum during the Obama Presidency, something very unique was started during those eight years. The hyper partisan poison called social media.

This is what politics looks like now when people are connected ever so neatly, able to line up among more solid divisions and provide talking points, narratives, and "facts" to one another. Group-think has gone global. Whether the messages are true or not, they share a common identity and they'll zealously defend it against "the other". Things were bitter against Bush from the beginning. I don't think Clinton enjoyed his time in the spotlight either. But nothing could have prepared us for what would happen to public discourse during Obama's presidency.

What I am saying is, it wasn't due to the color of his skin. Yes that was exploited, and yes there are some racists who cared about it, but mostly it comes down to our filthy political rancor where differences and backgrounds are exploited for political gain. And thanks to advances in technology, we've now dialed that up to 11 in ways humanity has never seen before.

I notice you've left something out on this subject. The 2016 campaign was not run against Blacks or Mexicans. The opponent was Hillary Clinton. Exquisite proof that the particulars of a subject are irrelevant to partisanship you claim is exclusively or primarily racist. Instead you were correct in your first line. It is "political bigotry". That was the onus of the opposition to President Obama and Secretary Clinton. Anyone in politics is going to face a hate machine from the other side. And social media lets that hate ferment in ways that are sickening to the American soul.

You've doubled down on painting the masses with such a broad brush. To generalize and stereotype the worst things to the greatest number of people. All because they've been swept up in the identity of their associated group. But I say again, each individual's journey is different. That the detachment from reality is a frighteningly normal condition for the human mind. Magical sky beings are simply what humans do.

Please ask yourself why you don't want to SEE this.

Because it was morally wrong for us to call all Muslims Terrorists. I feel you need to own up to your parallel message here. Don't fall into the trap of righteous indignation. This isn't a story of good vs evil. There is no group racism in simply being Republican or supporting Trump. Our capacity for ignorance is more profound than that.

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,716
47,396
136
I'm sure you read where that came from. A not so insignificant number of posters are treating Republicans as such.



One or two people even spoke to me of wanting a French Revolution to purge us of Republican "filth". So when treason is mentioned here, did you dispute it? No, that didn't cross your mind did it. Instead you reiterated how the situation is their fault. Which is another common theme around here. "Wilful ignorance" I hear it described as. People are accused of that all the time. As if ignorance itself is not a condition of not knowing better.

Either way, there is a profound hostility towards the "other" in this country. For Republican and Democrat alike. Across the nation, far too many people make it sound like they want our divisions to come to a head.



Obama's father was not from this country. Having a foreign background made President Obama distinguished in a way that could be uniquely exploited for a partisan attack on his background / character. In the 2000 election Bush's wife also faced an attack regarding a fatal car crash when she was 17. Her background / character was exploited. And in later years Democrats still hounded her.

Do you think Republicans alone are spiteful, or that hating people in politics started with Obama? If so, I believe we covered wilful ignorance. Although maybe you do realize just how utterly common such a thing is. And it has more to do with tribal politics "us vs them" than for whatever subject is raised on a given day. Furthermore, speaking of our decorum during the Obama Presidency, something very unique was started during those eight years. The hyper partisan poison called social media.

This is what politics looks like now when people are connected ever so neatly, able to line up among more solid divisions and provide talking points, narratives, and "facts" to one another. Group-think has gone global. Whether the messages are true or not, they share a common identity and they'll zealously defend it against "the other". Things were bitter against Bush from the beginning. I don't think Clinton enjoyed his time in the spotlight either. But nothing could have prepared us for what would happen to public discourse during Obama's presidency.

What I am saying is, it wasn't due to the color of his skin. Yes that was exploited, and yes there are some racists who cared about it, but mostly it comes down to our filthy political rancor where differences and backgrounds are exploited for political gain. And thanks to advances in technology, we've now dialed that up to 11 in ways humanity has never seen before.

I notice you've left something out on this subject. The 2016 campaign was not run against Blacks or Mexicans. The opponent was Hillary Clinton. Exquisite proof that the particulars of a subject are irrelevant to partisanship you claim is exclusively or primarily racist. Instead you were correct in your first line. It is "political bigotry". That was the onus of the opposition to President Obama and Secretary Clinton. Anyone in politics is going to face a hate machine from the other side. And social media lets that hate ferment in ways that are sickening to the American soul.

You've doubled down on painting the masses with such a broad brush. To generalize and stereotype the worst things to the greatest number of people. All because they've been swept up in the identity of their associated group. But I say again, each individual's journey is different. That the detachment from reality is a frighteningly normal condition for the human mind. Magical sky beings are simply what humans do.



Because it was morally wrong for us to call all Muslims Terrorists. I feel you need to own up to your parallel message here. Don't fall into the trap of righteous indignation. This isn't a story of good vs evil. There is no group racism in simply being Republican or supporting Trump. Our capacity for ignorance is more profound than that.

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I about 90% agree with this. You’re very right to say the primary driving force is not racism but tribalism and you’re doubly right that the rise of social media has created an environment where toxic behavior can grow in ways it couldn’t before.

One issue I have though is I think you are underplaying the role of racism in Republican politics. The evidence suggests a pretty powerful relationship between racism and Obama’s vote share. (The relationship between Obama vote share and google searches for anti-black racial slurs is pretty damning) In addition, I think the 2016 campaign was run in significant part against blacks and Mexicans and Trump’s campaign was the most explicitly racist campaign in decades.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,378
7,443
136
I about 90% agree with this. You’re very right to say the primary driving force is not racism but tribalism and you’re doubly right that the rise of social media has created an environment where toxic behavior can grow in ways it couldn’t before.

One issue I have though is I think you are underplaying the role of racism in Republican politics. The evidence suggests a pretty powerful relationship between racism and Obama’s vote share. (The relationship between Obama vote share and google searches for anti-black racial slurs is pretty damning) In addition, I think the 2016 campaign was run in significant part against blacks and Mexicans and Trump’s campaign was the most explicitly racist campaign in decades.

I'd agree that Trump himself embodies the worst of humanity.
I will also agree that the Republican Party exploits racism.

But that, people had their own personal journey / reasons for not stopping him, or opposing them.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,518
1,902
136
It's not hopefully small, unfortunately. I live in a bastion of such people, Florida, and that woman from the article could easily have been any number of my older relatives, Evangelicals all that adore Trump.

There's no reaching any of them. The only hope is to defeat them as they die off and hope enough of the younger generations might see some value in facts. Without agreeing on basic reality there can't be any conversation or coming together.

I tried to have a discussion about climate change with one of them, my position being "let's at least look at what the scientists are saying before denying it exists." I must have brought enough logic into the discussion, because the fall-back position was reached: "The end times are coming anyway, so it really doesn't matter"
How in the fuck can you ever meet in the middle over that? Another gem, was "the Bible is factual" in response to me wishing we'd rely on actual scientific facts....At some point you say fuck it and give up, there's better things to do than ram your head into a rock repeatedly....

It would help by recognizing Facebook and other social networking apps for the diseases they are. They do harm to people, they do harm to society.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I'm sure you read where that came from. A not so insignificant number of posters are treating Republicans as such.



One or two people even spoke to me of wanting a French Revolution to purge us of Republican "filth". So when treason is mentioned here, did you dispute it? No, that didn't cross your mind did it. Instead you reiterated how the situation is their fault. Which is another common theme around here. "Wilful ignorance" I hear it described as. People are accused of that all the time. As if ignorance itself is not a condition of not knowing better.

Either way, there is a profound hostility towards the "other" in this country. For Republican and Democrat alike. Across the nation, far too many people make it sound like they want our divisions to come to a head.



Obama's father was not from this country. Having a foreign background made President Obama distinguished in a way that could be uniquely exploited for a partisan attack on his background / character. In the 2000 election Bush's wife also faced an attack regarding a fatal car crash when she was 17. Her background / character was exploited. And in later years Democrats still hounded her.

Do you think Republicans alone are spiteful, or that hating people in politics started with Obama? If so, I believe we covered wilful ignorance. Although maybe you do realize just how utterly common such a thing is. And it has more to do with tribal politics "us vs them" than for whatever subject is raised on a given day. Furthermore, speaking of our decorum during the Obama Presidency, something very unique was started during those eight years. The hyper partisan poison called social media.

This is what politics looks like now when people are connected ever so neatly, able to line up among more solid divisions and provide talking points, narratives, and "facts" to one another. Group-think has gone global. Whether the messages are true or not, they share a common identity and they'll zealously defend it against "the other". Things were bitter against Bush from the beginning. I don't think Clinton enjoyed his time in the spotlight either. But nothing could have prepared us for what would happen to public discourse during Obama's presidency.

What I am saying is, it wasn't due to the color of his skin. Yes that was exploited, and yes there are some racists who cared about it, but mostly it comes down to our filthy political rancor where differences and backgrounds are exploited for political gain. And thanks to advances in technology, we've now dialed that up to 11 in ways humanity has never seen before.

I notice you've left something out on this subject. The 2016 campaign was not run against Blacks or Mexicans. The opponent was Hillary Clinton. Exquisite proof that the particulars of a subject are irrelevant to partisanship you claim is exclusively or primarily racist. Instead you were correct in your first line. It is "political bigotry". That was the onus of the opposition to President Obama and Secretary Clinton. Anyone in politics is going to face a hate machine from the other side. And social media lets that hate ferment in ways that are sickening to the American soul.

You've doubled down on painting the masses with such a broad brush. To generalize and stereotype the worst things to the greatest number of people. All because they've been swept up in the identity of their associated group. But I say again, each individual's journey is different. That the detachment from reality is a frighteningly normal condition for the human mind. Magical sky beings are simply what humans do.



Because it was morally wrong for us to call all Muslims Terrorists. I feel you need to own up to your parallel message here. Don't fall into the trap of righteous indignation. This isn't a story of good vs evil. There is no group racism in simply being Republican or supporting Trump. Our capacity for ignorance is more profound than that.

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Both sides with a vengeance, huh? With appropriate Gish galloping, as well.

It's important to figure out who lives by fake news conspiracy theory & who doesn't. It's also important to recognize who's preaching it, as well. Trump was going on about Mexican rapists in June of 2015, long before Hillary became the Dem nominee. He was also going on about Muslims the same way. Prior to that, he was the Birther in Chief for years. He's a great booster for the "voter fraud" fraud. That's not all of it, either.

There is no comparable leadership figure on the other side of it preaching conspiracy theory & pandering to latent racial animus. Absolutely nobody.
 
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