These new CPUs with built-in GPUs - good enough for HTPC?

[MichaelD]

After many years of not having a HTPC, I'll be building another one...so glad my Silverstone HTPC case never sold! Anyway...

Even though I've got tons of hardware I can reuse, it's all old. As in 10 years old. Some things to consider:

My TV is full HD/1080i, but...
Most of the material i'd be watching will be SD programming streamed from the net. I have a HD cable box and a BluRay player for my HD content fix.

I understand that in order to utilize the built-in GPUs that the new CPUs have, you need a compatible MB. Got it.

But are these built-in GPUs good enough for my proposed HTPC's uses? If I can avoid buying a $100+ discrete GPU I'd like to do so, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot, either.

Thanks.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, you can easily use the built-in GPU of a Core i3-2100 SB chip, or of a Llano A8 CPU. You could even use a Zacate for most things, but it might not be able to handle Blu-Ray 3D content.

 

[MichaelD]

Thanks, Larry. How much of a drain would it be on the rest of the system though? Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but I have an Atom-based netbook. Doing anything video-related (even watching YouTube) slows the entire box down to a grinding halt.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The intel i3-2100 GPU is pretty good, I can play an old 3D game like Half-Life 2 at 1024x768 smoothly. Power draw and heat are low so it's easy to cool.

It's also fast enough to decode anything, unlike an Atom + ION or E-350 / Zacate.

The AMD A8 is also fast enough and has a better 3D GPU for gaming, but it is a 100 watt part instead of 65.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4479/amd-a83850-an-htpc-perspective

Final words - enthusiasts will still need a GT 430 or AMD 6570:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4479/amd-a83850-an-htpc-perspective/9

So my take:
- for SD, web / Netflix up to 1080p: either i3 or A8 is fine without a graphics card, but the intel i3-2100 is lower power and slightly cheaper
- for 3D gaming with the on-chip GPU the AMD wins
- for enthusiast quality blu-ray decoding you still need a graphics card

 

[DaveSimmons]

> Doing anything video-related (even watching YouTube) slows the entire box down to a grinding halt.

i3-2100 is faster than a socket 775 E8400 3.0 GHz. I just watched the Torchlight trailer in 720p full-screen and CPU usage peaked at 16%.

 

[MichaelD]

Wow, that's encouraging, Dave. Thanks for the detailed reply and user testimonial. :thumbsup: I'll take a look at an i3-2100 and MB. Guess I'll need DDR3 memory too. Drat. I can reuse my case/PS/HD/DVD-Rom at least.

 

[Xonim]

I'm using an i3-2100 in my HTPC using just the built-in GPU, outputting 1920x1080. I have had no problems with playback using my bluray drive with TMT5.

I do remember there being some nonsense about the built-in GPU's outputting at 23.976 fps instead of 24 fps (or vice versa, I don't know), resulting in one extra frame every 40 seconds. Anandtech mentioned it in a write-up about these chips here. Personally, I haven't had a problem with it, or to be honest, even noticed it.

One other thing I found when I was researching my HTPC build - depending on where you buy, there may be an option for an i3 2100T @ 2.5 GHz instead of the normal i3 2100 @ 3.1 GHz. It also costs about $30 more usually. The difference it is trying to exploit is being a lower-power consumption model for applications like an HTPC where it's probably going to be on most of the time.

Fun fact: These two processors idle at exactly the same power consumption. The 2100T just has an upper threshold that robs you of 600 MHz that you very well might need someday.

EDIT: I also should mention that the stock cooler on the 2100T is a bit shorter if your case is super cramped.

 

[alcoholbob]

Yes but you might need to download some codecs to get the work to be offloaded to the GPU if you are using a 3rd party program like Media Player Classic Home Cinema.

 

[moriz]

I'm using an i3-2100 in my HTPC using just the built-in GPU, outputting 1920x1080. I have had no problems with playback using my bluray drive with TMT5.

I do remember there being some nonsense about the built-in GPU's outputting at 23.976 fps instead of 24 fps (or vice versa, I don't know), resulting in one extra frame every 40 seconds. Anandtech mentioned it in a write-up about these chips here. Personally, I haven't had a problem with it, or to be honest, even noticed it.

One other thing I found when I was researching my HTPC build - depending on where you buy, there may be an option for an i3 2100T @ 2.5 GHz instead of the normal i3 2100 @ 3.1 GHz. It also costs about $30 more usually. The difference it is trying to exploit is being a lower-power consumption model for applications like an HTPC where it's probably going to be on most of the time.

Fun fact: These two processors idle at exactly the same power consumption. The 2100T just has an upper threshold that robs you of 600 MHz that you very well might need someday.

EDIT: I also should mention that the stock cooler on the 2100T is a bit shorter if your case is super cramped.

actually, most movies are recorded at 23.975 fps. however, intel onboard graphics do not have support for that format, so they try to playback at 24 fps. this results in a doubled frame very 40ish seconds as the video and audio resync. this problem only shows up on intel's onboard video.

 

[Kenmitch]

actually, most movies are recorded at 23.975 fps. however, intel onboard graphics do not have support for that format, so they try to playback at 24 fps. this results in a doubled frame very 40ish seconds as the video and audio resync. this problem only shows up on intel's onboard video.

Let me be the first to ask

Does this cause any real issues a person should worry about? Something like sound going out of sink? Or is it just something that is noticeable when viewing the framerate?

 

[moriz]

Let me be the first to ask

Does this cause any real issues a person should worry about? Something like sound going out of sink? Or is it just something that is noticeable when viewing the framerate?

it's only a problem if you notice it. a lot of people never notice the doubled frame, and a lot of people do see it, and find it very annoying. and no, it does not cause video and audio to go out of sync.

as for which platform is better for HTPC, i'd say the AMD Llano one is better. the higher TDP is irrelevant, since it will never be stressed enough to hit it, especially with the onboard video handling most of the work. not to mention, Llano's GPU is MUCH stronger and tends to have better video quality.

 

[Arkaign]

How small is this case you're talking about?

I ask because imho :

If you aren't on a cheap notebook or using an ITX case, it's better to use mATX and AM3 A better processor can be had in the cheaper Phenom II X4, and you can save $$ over the current Llano mobos as well, leaving enough $$ for a credibly decent card such as a 6670 or so. It's far faster than the onboard GPU of the Llano, and for people that want to keep hardware longer, I think it makes more sense.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-399-_-Product

$75 AR 6670 w/GDDR5, 1GB of its own fairly quick memory. It will do BD-3D, respectable gaming, and best of all is easily replaceable down the line should you want more power.

If your case is low-profile, all of this goes out the window and llano starts to make a lot of sense. Low-profile discrete GPUs aren't as common, and generally don't deliver nearly the bang/buck.