Thermal Paste

[IsenMike]

Recently put together my computer. I have an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro HSF on my Core 2 Duo E6600. The heat sink came with a slab of thermal paste already applied to it, so I just used that. I am starting to run into some cooling issues with the overclocking I've been attempting, though, and I do have a tube of Arctic Silver 5 lying around from my previous computer.

I know that Arctic Silver 5 tends to be considered the best, but I'm wondering how much difference there would actually be between it and the Arctic Cooling MX-1 that came with my HSF. Anybody have any opinions on this? Last time I tried to apply thermal paste myself, well, things got messy. So if there's very little difference I'd rather not take apart my system to risk screwing things up and making a mess. But if there would be a significant drop in temperature, then I'm definitely willing to give it a shot. What do you folks think?

 

[RallyMaster]

From my experience, if you apply MX-1 the same way you apply AS5 (a small drop in the middle of the CPU IHS) then let the heatsink spread it out, the MX-1 actually works 1 or 2 degrees better than the AS5 especially on a Freezer 64/7 Pro heatsink.


JEDIYoda needs to speak on this matter, heh.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: IsenMike
Recently put together my computer. I have an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro HSF on my Core 2 Duo E6600. The heat sink came with a slab of thermal paste already applied to it, so I just used that. I am starting to run into some cooling issues with the overclocking I've been attempting, though, and I do have a tube of Arctic Silver 5 lying around from my previous computer.

I know that Arctic Silver 5 tends to be considered the best, but I'm wondering how much difference there would actually be between it and the Arctic Cooling MX-1 that came with my HSF. Anybody have any opinions on this? Last time I tried to apply thermal paste myself, well, things got messy. So if there's very little difference I'd rather not take apart my system to risk screwing things up and making a mess. But if there would be a significant drop in temperature, then I'm definitely willing to give it a shot. What do you folks think?

If you are having over clocking issues I seriously doubt its due to the thermal paste you are using.

Most high quality heatsinks ship with a very good quality thermal paste or thermal pads that rival or exceed the quality of AS5 products which most are over rated.

You do not say what type of problems you are having over clcocking.......

My experience weith heatsinks are most even the factory heatsinks are capable of mildly over clocking your CPU say 10-15%....
Albeit the AC Freezer 7 is a real sweet heatsink. That wouldn`t necessarily be my choice for an all out radical over clocking journey.

If you can post what issues you are having we would be better equipped to steer you in the correct direction...

 

[VinDSL]

MX-1 is my current favorite. If it doesn't work, nothing will...

That said, you probably have a warped lid on your CPU. That's the 'norm' these days, unfortunately!

Have you tried lapping your CPU?

 

[IsenMike]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

If you can post what issues you are having we would be better equipped to steer you in the correct direction...

Currently I've been able to overclock the E6600 up to 3.3GHz. I'd like to push it further, but I'm a bit worried about the heat. Idle temp is now 48 degrees. Load is between 56 and 61 degrees. CPU voltage is set to 1.3V in BIOS (although NVIDIA system monitor reports 1.3125V... for some reason it always reports .0125V higher than what I have it set at under BIOS).

I was going to fiddle with the voltage a bit to see if I could get the heat down. Also, I'm in an XCLIO A380BK case, which has two 250mm intake fans, but no rear exhaust fan, so I was going to throw an exhaust fan on there in the hopes that it would move the hot air away from the HSF a bit faster.

Originally posted by: VinDSL
That said, you probably have a warped lid on your CPU. That's the 'norm' these days, unfortunately!

Have you tried lapping your CPU?

I'm pretty inexperienced with most matters overclocking, so this is greek to me. Don't know what you mean by "warped lid" or "lapping your CPU."

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: IsenMike

Originally posted by: VinDSL
That said, you probably have a warped lid on your CPU. That's the 'norm' these days, unfortunately!

Have you tried lapping your CPU?

I'm pretty inexperienced with most matters overclocking, so this is greek to me. Don't know what you mean by "warped lid" or "lapping your CPU."

Well, in a nutshell...

There are two different kinds of CPUs -- lidded and non-lidded. Intel CPUs have a metal lid soldered to the top of the 'real CPU' -- the core -- and to the sides.

The problem is, many times these lids are warped, and the sides of the lid (for instance) are higher than the center (concave). Hence, your cooler isn't even touching the lid in the center -- where the majority of the core heat is dissipated.

So, the fix is to 'lap' the top of your lid and make it flat, as it was supposed to come from the fab.

There are many ways to do this, so I won't get into it here, but does that make more sense?

 

[CurseTheSky]

I haven't seen anyone ask yet, so I'll take the first shot:

What kind of overclocking issues are you running into? You said you're new at it, so it's possible that you're not running into any problems at all, just a common wall that everyone else hits.

What is your:
-Processor
-Current overclock (GHz)
-Vcore (processor voltage)
-FSB (front side bus)
-FSB voltage
-Current processor temperature (idle and load) measured by Intel Thermal Analysis Tool or Core Temp (PLEASE use one of these two programs, not some other crappy thing that came with the motherboard)

 

[IsenMike]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
I haven't seen anyone ask yet, so I'll take the first shot:

What kind of overclocking issues are you running into? You said you're new at it, so it's possible that you're not running into any problems at all, just a common wall that everyone else hits.

What is your:
-Processor
-Current overclock (GHz)
-Vcore (processor voltage)
-FSB (front side bus)
-FSB voltage
-Current processor temperature (idle and load) measured by Intel Thermal Analysis Tool or Core Temp (PLEASE use one of these two programs, not some other crappy thing that came with the motherboard)

I did go a little bit into this halfway through the thread, but here are all the stats you're looking for:
Processor: E6600
Current Overclock: 3.3 GHz
Vcore: 1.3V
FSB: 1467 MHz
FSB voltage: 1.4V
Idle temp: ~47 degrees
Load temp (running Orthos with Small FFTs): Intel Thermal Analysis Tool says that one core is at 62 and the other is at 60. NVIDIA Monitor says the CPU is at 64.

I'm not hitting any wall in terms of stability. If I turn up the FSB higher, it still runs stable. But it does run hotter. Since all of the guides I've read say not to go over 60 degrees during load, I'm trying to figure out how to get my temps down.

 

[IsenMike]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

There are two different kinds of CPUs -- lidded and non-lidded. Intel CPUs have a metal lid soldered to the top of the 'real CPU' -- the core -- and to the sides.

The problem is, many times these lids are warped, and the sides of the lid (for instance) are higher than the center (concave). Hence, your cooler isn't even touching the lid in the center -- where the majority of the core heat is dissipated.

So, the fix is to 'lap' the top of your lid and make it flat, as it was supposed to come from the fab.

Did some quick searches on lapping. You're basically saying I should sand my processor?

Knowing my luck with operations of that sort going VERY poorly, I think I'll probably pass.

If it does have a warped lid, though, is that the sort of thing that's covered under the warranty? I've only had the processor just over a week. Or, since it runs perfectly well under stock speeds, would this sort of thing not be covered?

 

[VinDSL]

Yeah, if you're SURE it's twisted, I'd RMA it, but I wouldn't jump the gun.

I just wanted to make sure you were aware that a large percentage of C2Ds are concave.

Maybe your CPU isn't seated correctly in the socket, or you may not have enough airflow in your case.

It could be a LOT of things, you know?

 

[IsenMike]

So here's a question. I just got through playing a session of Call of Duty 2, all settings maxed out, for about an hour or so, and the temp never got above 54 degrees. This is nearly ten whole degrees cooler than it was running doing stress tests with Orthos. Considering the fact that I'm not likely to be actually crunching prime numbers during typical use of this machine, should I even be considering the temperature Orthos gives me? Or should I consider "temp under load" as "temp while gaming?"

EDIT: This question is pretty far off the topic of the original post so I branched it into its own thread. Hope that's kosher forum etiquette.

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: IsenMike
So here's a question. I just got through playing a session of Call of Duty 2, all settings maxed out, for about an hour or so, and the temp never got above 54 degrees. This is nearly ten whole degrees cooler than it was running doing stress tests with Orthos. Considering the fact that I'm not likely to be actually crunching prime numbers during typical use of this machine, should I even be considering the temperature Orthos gives me? Or should I consider "temp under load" as "temp while gaming?"

EDIT: This question is pretty far off the topic of the original post so I branched it into its own thread. Hope that's kosher forum etiquette.

orthos? Search for Intel Thermal Analysis Tool if you've got a C2D it'll make it much hotter then Orthos. Now of course you "could" just leave it as is but it wouldn't be stable in my mind.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: IsenMike
Considering the fact that I'm not likely to be actually crunching prime numbers during typical use of this machine, should I even be considering the temperature Orthos gives me?

Okay... my opinion... the only opinion I have...

I wouldn't worry about those temps, as long as the machine is stable!

Come summertime, things WILL heatup on you. If that causes problems, then I would lap everything, reapply fresh grease, do a burn-in, and go from there.

 

[CurseTheSky]

47C idle is HIGH for 1.3v. Is that 1.375? 1.39? I find it hard to believe you hit 3.3GHz stable on 1.300 volts.

Either way, anything above 35-40C idle is really hot for that voltage. Sounds like you either improperly installed your heatsink, have you computer in a very hot room, or have extremely bad case airflow. I would check the latter of the two first.

If your room isn't too hot (high 60s to high 70s fahrenheit shouldn't be a problem), and your case is getting good airflow (GPU idle temperatures are a good way to tell), try reinstalling the heatsink. If that doesn't work, you probably do have a concave IHS on the processor... which can be fixed by RMAing or lapping. Personally, I'm not brave enough to lap my processor. Heatsink, anyday. Processor... ouch.

 

[IsenMike]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
47C idle is HIGH for 1.3v. Is that 1.375? 1.39? I find it hard to believe you hit 3.3GHz stable on 1.300 volts.

Either way, anything above 35-40C idle is really hot for that voltage. Sounds like you either improperly installed your heatsink, have you computer in a very hot room, or have extremely bad case airflow. I would check the latter of the two first.

If your room isn't too hot (high 60s to high 70s fahrenheit shouldn't be a problem), and your case is getting good airflow (GPU idle temperatures are a good way to tell), try reinstalling the heatsink. If that doesn't work, you probably do have a concave IHS on the processor... which can be fixed by RMAing or lapping. Personally, I'm not brave enough to lap my processor. Heatsink, anyday. Processor... ouch.

The GPU idles around 60 degrees. Oddly enough, though, it doesn't seem to get any hotter when I'm gaming. It just sits there at 60 no matter what I'm doing. The overall system temp, on the other hand, is right now at a chilly 32 degrees.

In any case, like I said above, my computer at the moment does not have a rear exhaust fan. It has two large 250mm intake fans (one on the front and one on the side), which I had hoped would move enough air with just the output from the PSU and the GPU, but I guess not. I've already ordered a 120mm fan from NewEgg. With any luck I'll get it by Tuesday and maybe some of these problems will clear up.

As for the voltage, maybe my own ignorance of what it should be is somehow keeping the computer running. But I've run Prime95 for upwards of half an hour without anything going wrong, so it does seem to be stable. I did lose stability once when I tried lowering the FSB voltage from 1.4 to 1.3. But the CPU voltage has been set to 1.3 without any problems (although NVIDIA Monitor reports it at 1.3125 and CPU-Z reports it at 1.264, so I'm not sure what it's actually running at.)

 

[Praxis1452]

Coolabratory Liquid Pro.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
Coolabratory Liquid Pro.

isnt this only safe on copper and it will litterally melt aluminum?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
Coolabratory Liquid Pro



this stuff corrodes not literally but it reacts with copper and literally eats aluminum......
In fact the disadvantages far out weigh the advantages!!
It is quite literally a dangerous product if not used with the utmost care!!

The reading from http://www.frostytech.com/permalink.cfm?NewsID=46586, is specific to the aluminum on the side of the heatsink. I do agree though that this chemical reaction is alarming and is best to stick with whatever thermal paste you are using!.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
...best to stick with whatever thermal paste you are using!

I concur!

Look, this isn't a matter of which grease will fill the biggest air space the best. There shouldn't be an air gap, if that's 'the problem'.

I'd live with it for now. That chip is within spec, up to 61.5C, so it's not like you're gonna kill it, you know?

*edit*

I was just thinking... I remember a high-profile geek at one of the clocker sites, with a particularly nasty concave lid, and he was hitting high 80s, low 90s -- and his 6600 didn't die -- it just (literally) burned up the grease, and discolored his cooler.

I'll look around and see if I can find that thread again.

I'm 99% sure he finally went with waterworks...

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: Praxis1452
Coolabratory Liquid Pro



this stuff corrodes not literally but it reacts with copper and literally eats aluminum......
In fact the disadvantages far out weigh the advantages!!
It is quite literally a dangerous product if not used with the utmost care!!

The reading from http://www.frostytech.com/permalink.cfm?NewsID=46586, is specific to the aluminum on the side of the heatsink. I do agree though that this chemical reaction is alarming and is best to stick with whatever thermal paste you are using!.

totally disagree. take your cpu out of your mobo and put it on the Hs and IHs. After put it back in and tighten. It takes an idiot to not recognize aluminum or read directions. Any performance HS will have a base of copper not aluminum.

utmost care? How bout a bit of common sense. why should everyone be treated like an idiot who can't even read directions? :disgust:

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: Praxis1452
Coolabratory Liquid Pro



this stuff corrodes not literally but it reacts with copper and literally eats aluminum......
In fact the disadvantages far out weigh the advantages!!
It is quite literally a dangerous product if not used with the utmost care!!

The reading from http://www.frostytech.com/permalink.cfm?NewsID=46586, is specific to the aluminum on the side of the heatsink. I do agree though that this chemical reaction is alarming and is best to stick with whatever thermal paste you are using!.

totally disagree. take your cpu out of your mobo and put it on the Hs and IHs. After put it back in and tighten. It takes an idiot to not recognize aluminum or read directions. Any performance HS will have a base of copper not aluminum.

utmost care? How bout a bit of common sense. why should everyone be treated like an idiot who can't even read directions? :disgust:

The issue is simple.......you do moy get thast much of an inprovement in temps by using the liquid metal.
Plus it has been known to bond your CPU to your heatsink.
Plus for every person on these forums who could use common sense and use the product without messing anything up there will always be those on these forums who will do just the opposite and be crying that they messed there heatsink or something else up by using this product.
You will say something smart to them like...did you use common sense??
For the little gain that might be achieved its not worth the trouble or the possibility of having trouble.

Just for your information.....
utmost care is using common sense.....


Show me a forum anywhere were everybody is using this liquid metal....
There are alot of forums where people say the negative out weighs any supposed benefits.

Here`s a review on the Liquid Metal...
http://reviews.pimprig.com/cooling/coollaboratory_liquid_metal.php?page=1

Good review but notice what is being said -- Final Thoughts

I am positive this stuff isn't Mercury, but instead is an alloy comprised of gallium, indium, and tin. That alloy has a melting point of -20C and has high thermal conductivity. The hint that this stuff is a gallium mixture is because of the big warnings at the Coollaboratory website to not use the substance with an aluminum heatsink. The gallium will alloy with the aluminum and actually turn some of the aluminum into a liquid and you end up with a big hole in the center of your heatsink which probably will not assist you with your CPU cooling. The only thing that bothers me is that a good gallium mixture doesn't bead up and spreads evenly, this stuff doesn't spread evenly. All I succeeded in doing when attempting to spread it with a Q-Tip is push it around the top of the processor.

Coollaboratory has an interesting product in Liquid Metal and it does seem to work. Since the company is being tight-lipped about what the formula of their Liquid Metal is, I have to assume it is a gallium compound. And since I've made that assumption, I cannot recommend this product. Yes, it cools, but the potential for damage to the motherboard or other components is too great if someone were to spill it or if some leaked out between the CPU and heatsink and it went unnoticed.

As it stands, I won't give an award because of the potential for damage, but I won't deride them either since the stuff actually works. Consider this an "Information Only" review.

Thanks go out to Coollaboratory for providing the "Liquid Metal" for us for review.



But Zalman has a product that I really like at its a liquid thermal paste-- Zalman STG1
http://www.zalman.co.kr/usa/product/view.asp?idx=198&code=027 lots of real good reviews...

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/zalmanthermalgrease/
CONCLUSIONS AND AFTERTHOUGHTS --

Well, we ended up with no clear winner here. Given the fact that the Zalman offering performed equally as well as one of the industry leaders(as5), it's obviously an outstanding product. The fact that the ZM-STG1 is also almost twice as expensive as its opponent, takes some of the shine off of it. The brush applicator is a definite plus, and I also found that the Zalman Super Grease was much easier to remove after use. This would be a boon to someone who swaps coolers or processors often. A more aggressive price point would go a long way to make Zalman's ZM-STG1 Super Thermal Grease an outstanding value.


Pros:


- Excellent performance
- Brush eases application
- Easy clean up


Cons:


- Expensive

 

[dampeal]

I found that the new Thermalright Chill Factor thermal paste is very good, if not better than AS5.. and you get a whole lot more of it for less cost

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
MX-1 is my current favorite. If it doesn't work, nothing will...

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
The fact that the ZM-STG1 is also almost twice as expensive as its opponent...

Originally posted by: dampeal
I found that the new Thermalright Chill Factor thermal paste is very good...

Well, there you go, IsenMike. You got your wish... it's a grease thread!

Have fun! I'm outta here...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Then again price has never been that big of a consideration for me...thus the ZM-STG1 is my thermal compound of choice for now....

 

[IsenMike]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Well, there you go, IsenMike. You got your wish... it's a grease thread!

Have fun! I'm outta here...

Huh. Great. Well after we've pretty much decided that the grease probably won't have any effect on my problem. Oh well. I guess I'll wait for that new system fan to show up, and if that doesn't help, I'll reinstall my cooler, and have a look to see if the CPU lid is warped or not.