Theres like maybe 3 people in Central Park and one of them is Karen.

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
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I don't want to see anyone's life ruined, but she made a very poor choice here. One that could have just as easily ruined the other person's life. Hopefully, this can be worked out amicably for all involved, but it's quite possible that her employer may not be willing to accept the risk of an employee with a demonstrated history of 'swatting' people when she loses her cool.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
There was a lie in her so called statement of remorse so I don't think it was genuine. I was just responding to the opinion she was being shunned which I don't believe is true.

What do you see as a lie?

As to being shunned, I suppose that's up to each of us to examine individually.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
What do you see as a lie?

As to being shunned, I suppose that's up to each of us to examine individually.
She said Christian was yelling at her as a threat excuse. If you watch the clip he responded in a non threatening normal tone.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
And now she's fired.

Next time put your fuckin dog on the leash.

Goes for everyone out hiking or walking. Not everyone wants to be bombarded by your hyper, dirty, slobby dog bounding down the trail when we are trying to enjoy a nice walk.

Don't assume just because I like my dog means I love your freaking mutt.
 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,985
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I’m just waiting to find out how lying to the police specifically that an African -American man was threatening her life wasn’t racist.

I’m sure some of our more ‘enlightened’ members will be along shortly to explain that she wasn’t being racist and it wasn’t an implicit threat on his life.

It's why I have 5-6 of these aggrieved morons on ignore.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,944
2,175
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She was punishing him, pure and simple, for being a black man in what she clearly viewed was a white space.
I'm not so sure about that...I think it was more to do with him telling her what the rules are and that she was breaking them. Bruised ego maybe? I think she would have had the same reaction regardless of who it was, but him being black added another dimension she wanted to try and use against him.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
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The primitive brain does not distinguish between emotional threats and physical ones. Anger is among the affects commonly experienced in the amygdala-mediated stress response.

In particular, an unexpected challenge is a lot more likely to result in such a response. There hasn't been adequate fear conditioning to anticipate response to such a situation limiting capacity to suppress the response in favor of cortical reasoning.

Even if that is all true, pure anger remains a 100% viable hypothesis here. You didn't answer my final question, but I was asking if anger is a common reaction when someone who runs around breaking rules in public, or even just being rude to others, is called on it by a stranger and asked to modify their behavior. I think the trait of narcissism is directly implicated in that sort of behavior. The same trait which causes them to break rules and disregard others to begin with makes it highly likely that the person will react with hostility when criticized and asked to stop whatever they are doing. Because they feel entitled to do whatever they want, and any person saying different is challenging their fragile ego. Just like with...OK, not going to introduce the name of our most famous narcissist into the thread. But you get the picture.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,944
2,175
126
Certainly I did not hear him yelling on the clip.
I think what she said was that he was yelling at her initially about the dog, prior to him starting to film. Based on his demeanor in the video I'd say that was probably a lie, but there's no evidence either way.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
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I think what she said was that he was yelling at her initially about the dog, prior to him starting to film. Based on his demeanor in the video I'd say that was probably a lie, but there's no evidence either way.
white privelege .....make up s story to get the ppolice to respond and do harm to the black man....
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
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I'm not so sure about that...I think it was more to do with him telling her what the rules are and that she was breaking them. Bruised ego maybe? I think she would have had the same reaction regardless of who it was, but him being black added another dimension she wanted to try and use against him.

Yeah, fair enough...I agree with woolfe's comments as well. I revise my comments and hypothesis. She most likely would have had the same reaction to anyone in this situation.

Although, this woman clearly knew that her actions could have adverse consequences for the guy. Why else would she say to him, before calling the police, "I'm going to tell them there's an African American man threatening my life"? She explicitly and intentionally deployed the issue of race, and the trope of the threatening black man, to make her point. She did it anyway, to a man who was behaving calmly and reasonably, and was not at all threatening. She calls the cop because she thinks this older gentleman who's birdwatching is feeding poison to her dog in front of her, because that's totally a thing that happens all the time.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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Even if that is all true, pure anger remains a 100% viable hypothesis here. You didn't answer my final question, but I was asking if anger is a common reaction when someone who runs around breaking rules in public, or even just being rude to others, is called on it by a stranger and asked to modify their behavior. I think the trait of narcissism is directly implicated in that sort of behavior. The same trait which causes them to break rules and disregard others to begin with makes it highly likely that the person will react with hostility when criticized and asked to stop whatever they are doing. Because they feel entitled to do whatever they want, and any person saying different is challenging their fragile ego. Just like with...OK, not going to introduce the name of our most famous narcissist into the thread. But you get the picture.

I think the words ego injury and narcissistic injury likely apply.

What evidence is there that this woman is a narcissist? Do you think he who shall not be named would give up the puppy and apologize?

That doesn't make her not a narcissist either. Maybe she has a pattern of rage, racism, empathic deficit, etc. I don't know anything more than this thread. Does anyone else?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,199
18,669
146
She most certainly didn't like being called out on the rules, and by a black guy no less. How dare he!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Who knows? That's marked by affect, not words. I don't think being shunned will help her take that step.

'Who knows' is a question we could probably debate forever. I will just give you my take on knowledge. I am compelled to know by my inner sense of certainty that we are all the same and that if I know me I know everybody. This requires balance against the fact that I am also aware that I don't know anything having long ago lost my battle to prove in absulutes that everything I believed in was true. So what I am instead is unafraid to express what I believe I see as opinion and to believe also that I tend to assess things without deep sacred cow bias, that having died to my own personal beliefs and swum ashore after a shipwreck, that what is left is solid and can't be taken.

The primitive brain does not distinguish between emotional threats and physical ones. Anger is among the affects commonly experienced in the amygdala-mediated stress response.

In particular, an unexpected challenge is a lot more likely to result in such a response. There hasn't been adequate fear conditioning to anticipate response to such a situation limiting capacity to suppress the response in favor of cortical reasoning.

I am not arguing against this. We are biological creatures running wet ware software. Our behaviors are genetically programmed in ways we can't escape. We are what we are. The question I have for you is 'How did emotional threats come to be able to trigger physical responses?' What emotional reaction can we have that triggers the threat response? I believe from my understanding of myself that the thing we most fear is loss of ego defense, direct experience of what we are most afraid to feel it is there to protect us from feeling, had to protect us from least we have died physically as children, the surrender we all had to make to conform in order to be loved, nurtured, and supported. I was taught this by somebody who went deeper in the destruction of his own sacred cows than I and plucked that self hate out at the root. But owing to what I personally experienced I believe this is the truth.

I think the words ego injury and narcissistic injury likely apply.

What evidence is there that this woman is a narcissist? Do you think he who shall not be named would give up the puppy and apologize?

That doesn't make her not a narcissist either. Maybe she has a pattern of rage, racism, empathic deficit, etc. I don't know anything more than this thread. Does anyone else?

Again the same question, 'Does anybody know?' I've said what I believe and believe what I've said, that for having her ego exceptionalism challenged her self worth was questioned and she responded with an intention to hurt and to the extent she created a real threat to the life of another person. I believe this because that woman is me. I have been on both sides, the attacker and the one attacked.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,222
136
I'm not so sure about that...I think it was more to do with him telling her what the rules are and that she was breaking them. Bruised ego maybe? I think she would have had the same reaction regardless of who it was, but him being black added another dimension she wanted to try and use against him.

There's an interesting op-ed in Essence written today...specifically about public spaces being white...it seems to be very much a thing within the black community. Honestly, I'd really never thought about it much, but the past 6 years spent with my "black friend" have really introduced me to a much deeper understanding of what's what...and I used to think I already had a good grasp of the lay of the land on all that. How wrong one can be...at least I was in the vicinity.

The quotes around black friend are there because the two of us, me a 66 yo white dude and YH, a 26 yo black dude, have a more than just a friendship. It's strange, but the two of us have kinda bonded. Like any time YH first sees me, it's "My N$&&A!" And he uses that expression any time he introduces me to one of his friends that I haven't met before....not my neighbor, always the "n" word.

Anyway.....
Within the op-ed is a link to Yale professor Elijah Anderson’s 2015 paper “The White Space,” published by the American Sociological Association. Interesting read.

https://www.essence.com/op-ed/amy-cooper-and-protecting-white-spaces/
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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I think the words ego injury and narcissistic injury likely apply.

What evidence is there that this woman is a narcissist? Do you think he who shall not be named would give up the puppy and apologize?

That doesn't make her not a narcissist either. Maybe she has a pattern of rage, racism, empathic deficit, etc. I don't know anything more than this thread. Does anyone else?

I see elevated narcissism - whether at the level of a personality disorder or not - in one who breaks the rules, AND after being asked to comply, refuses to do so. Let me ask you this. When confronted by supposedly scary black man in park and asked to leash her dog, why do you suppose she chose to argue with him instead of complying? She had the leash right there with her. Why not just put it on the dog and be done with it?
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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I see elevated narcissism - whether at the level of a personality disorder or not - in one who breaks the rules, AND after being asked to comply, refuses to do so. Let me ask you this. When confronted by supposedly scary black man in park and asked to leash her dog, why do you suppose she chose to argue with him instead of complying? She had the leash right there with her. Why not just put it on the dog and be done with it?

Maybe you could ask her?

What's so important to you about being able to judge her character based on these 10 seconds of video alone? And that this judgment be one which justifies a lack of compassion?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
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Maybe you could ask her?

What's so important to you about being able to judge her character based on these 10 seconds of video alone? And that this judgment be one which justifies a lack of compassion?

Because the discussion between us was about whether her actions in calling the police were motivated by fear, anger, or a combination of the two. I see the pattern of refusing to comply when asked to follow the rules, and arguing over it instead, as evidence that anger, not fear, was her prime motivation.

"Lack of compassion" is inapplicable to this discussion. I have not once in this thread suggested any sort of punishment for her behavior. I just tend to doubt that she was actually afraid as she claims.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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Because the discussion between us was about whether her actions in calling the police were motivated by fear, anger, or a combination of the two. I see the pattern of refusing to comply when asked to follow the rules, and arguing over it instead, as evidence that anger, not fear, was her prime motivation.

I think you are trying to apply logic too strictly to a part of the brain which is not dictated by logic. And asking too much from the available evidence besides. I could offer a speculative answer to your conundrum, but why? Firstly, it would be speculative, so it wouldn't help us figure out if it was right. Secondly, just because it would satisfy me as a possible explanation of her behavior which I can relate to doesn't mean it would satisfy you or even be valid other than within my own psyche. And lastly, regardless of what I come up with even if it's nothing, my lack of conceiving of a satisfactory explanation doesn't mean such an explanation doesn't exist.


"Lack of compassion" is inapplicable to this discussion. I have not once in this thread suggested any sort of punishment for her behavior. I just tend to doubt that she was actually afraid as she claims.

I am struggling then to make sense of your seeing her behavior as "elevated narcissism". It's hard for me to hear that language and invoking a likening to Trump without it being pejorative and applied the the person as a whole rather than an event.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
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Because the discussion between us was about whether her actions in calling the police were motivated by fear, anger, or a combination of the two. I see the pattern of refusing to comply when asked to follow the rules, and arguing over it instead, as evidence that anger, not fear, was her prime motivation.

"Lack of compassion" is inapplicable to this discussion. I have not once in this thread suggested any sort of punishment for her behavior. I just tend to doubt that she was actually afraid as she claims.

Many people wouldn't comply with a stranger I'd say, and she did try to reason with him i.e. dog runs closed; dangerous outside area. I would say upset and afraid (not her really but the dog). And I could almost guarantee she's not a Trumper because she described this guy as "African American". Moreover, she dropped the "threatening my life" on the phone and then even the "African American" descriptor later. In fact, I'm not sure she even intended it as an exploit of his minority status. The "African American" mention can just be a descriptor for the cops, and people routinely embellish shit especially if she sees the dog somewhat as an extension of herself. It's pretty baffling if it was a ploy to exploit it because she knows he's getting video.

Besides that, what do you think about the black guy? So this guy admits he's ready to harass people (admitting he knows dog owners hate it for various reasons when strangers try to feed their dog) and then bait them into a confrontation if they don't meet his demand that he's not in position to enforce. It's more "neighborhood watch" than Zimmerman was. Zimmerman just stared at a distance due to suspicion, which according to some should warrant a beating, yet it's all different when you change swap the color of the person.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
5,089
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For some strange reason, I keep waiting for "certain posters" to show up and start complaining about how democrats are hypocrites and that we should take her side because "Believe all women".

That and Mr. "This is more racism against the white race" guy.

Maybe the "WE DON'T KNOW IF HE THREATENED HER BEFORE THE VIDEO AND SHOULD WAIT FOR THE FACTS!!! SHE MAY HAVE REASONABLY FEARED FOR HER LIFE AND I REFUSE TO READ ANY LINKS NOT PROVIDED BY YOUTUBE REACTION VIDEOS!" guy....

I'll check back after 40 pages to see if they took over...
 
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