Theres like maybe 3 people in Central Park and one of them is Karen.

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
She wasn't racist because she identified and truly believed as being threatened (Believe all Women) because in today's world it is what you believe or identify with that counts until reality (or the video camera in this case) knocks you down , some more than once because they don't learn,

The public schools should make to kill a mocking bird required reading especially when it comes to how white women used to get black men lynched by accusation alone in the past, like Emmett Louis Till, and many jailed today based on a 911 call alone.

This country under Trump is moving backwards towards the days of Emmett Till.

The invention of the phone camera is turning to be a savior for blacks all across this country. Big shout out to Phillipe Kahn

 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
She didn't tell the police he was threatening her "life." She told them he was "recording me and threatening me and my dog." She told him before she called that she would say he was threatening her life, but she left out the "my life" part when talking to the police. I will admit this is a bit of a nitpick since the agitation in her voice I'm sure suggested that she meant physically threatened.

This woman's behavior was strange. If she was so frightened of the scary black man why did she approach him even as he told her to stay away from him? Why didn't she run away? I think she was angry because he told her to leash her dog. She's like the loud, obnoxious person in the movie theater who becomes hostile and doubles down on the obnoxious behavior when asked to quiet down. People tend to not like having strangers tell them they're breaking the rules and need to change their behavior. I think she also became angrier when he started recording her.

Was it racist? Yeah I think so. But not in the way of, "OMG, I am terrified because I am alone in a park with a black guy near me." What she did, rather, was use a pre-existing racial dynamic where black people have reason to fear being killed or inappropriately arrested in order to retaliate because he bruised her ego by correctly pointing out that she broke the rules. And her behavior with the dog? What a moron.

That guy was really smart. He literally couldn't have handled the situation any better.
Listen to it again. She said I will call cops and tell them you are threatening "MY LIFE"
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Listen to it again. She said I will call cops and tell them you are threatening "MY LIFE"

I'm just going to quote the sentence you didn't read in my post.

She didn't tell the police he was threatening her "life." She told them he was "recording me and threatening me and my dog." She told him before she called that she would say he was threatening her life, but she left out the "my life" part when talking to the police. I will admit this is a bit of a nitpick since the agitation in her voice I'm sure suggested that she meant physically threatened.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
I'm just going to quote the sentence you didn't read in my post.
Got it. I'm angry and tired of this shit!!

Posted another thread of police killing a black man under arrest just for a forgery accusation. Just like Eric Garner he groaned "I can't breathe"
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,545
136
Every time you see such a scenario unfold, remind yourself, she had the choice to think again, to restrain herself, as soon as a camera appeared. Thereby escaping any consequence of any racist or ugly thing she may have done prior to the camera appearing.

When they see the camera, they ALL have a golden opportunity to turn things around or just straight STOP!

But they never do. Because they are that certain of their privilege. It seems she honestly believed saying a black man threatened her life was enough to get him taken away.

If you can’t restrain your bigoted self even when the camera is on you, you deserve what you get for being extra stupid on top of being a bigot.

She'll likely be fired. I expect the firm needs to get the lawyers lined up first.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
I have no idea what the exchange was before that encounter. I'm certain there was some conflict prior to the filming, but that doesn't mean the guy did anything wrong. If I were in his shoes even though I'm no threat to be racially profiled, I'm not going to try and call the dog over to leash him myself. That may have been what set things off. Totally the wrong way for her to react to that if so, though. I'm glad she gave up the dog and apologized. Hopefully these actions mean she was exposed to her internal biases, didn't like them, and took accountability for those actions.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
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She didn't tell the police he was threatening her "life." She told them he was "recording me and threatening me and my dog." She told him before she called that she would say he was threatening her life, but she left out the "my life" part when talking to the police. I will admit this is a bit of a nitpick since the agitation in her voice I'm sure suggested that she meant physically threatened.

This woman's behavior was strange. If she was so frightened of the scary black man why did she approach him even as he told her to stay away from him? Why didn't she run away? I think she was angry because he told her to leash her dog. She's like the loud, obnoxious person in the movie theater who becomes hostile and doubles down on the obnoxious behavior when asked to quiet down. People tend to not like having strangers tell them they're breaking the rules and need to change their behavior. I think she also became angrier when he started recording her.

Was it racist? Yeah I think so. But not in the way of, "OMG, I am terrified because I am alone in a park with a black guy near me." What she did, rather, was use a pre-existing racial dynamic where black people have reason to fear being killed or inappropriately arrested in order to retaliate because he bruised her ego by correctly pointing out that she broke the rules. And her behavior with the dog? What a moron.

That guy was really smart. He literally couldn't have handled the situation any better.

IMO...She wasn't even remotely afraid for her life and the tears weren't real. At the beginning of the video she marches right up to him and he has to tell her to stay back.

She was punishing him, pure and simple, for being a black man in what she clearly viewed was a white space.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
I have no idea what the exchange was before that encounter. I'm certain there was some conflict prior to the filming, but that doesn't mean the guy did anything wrong. If I were in his shoes even though I'm no threat to be racially profiled, I'm not going to try and call the dog over to leash him myself. That may have been what set things off. Totally the wrong way for her to react to that if so, though. I'm glad she gave up the dog and apologized. Hopefully these actions mean she was exposed to her internal biases, didn't like them, and took accountability for those actions.

We do know what happened before, because the guy posted about it in Facebook and she didn't challenge his version when she spoke with CNN. He was bird watching, and called her out for her dog not being on a leash, because there is a no leash rule and unleashed dogs tend to scare away ground dwelling birds. After arguing over the leash, she refused to leash the dog. This then ensued:

He said: "Look, if you're going to do what you want, I'm going to do what I want, but you're not going to like it."

"I didn't know what that meant. When you're alone in a wooded area, that's absolutely terrifying, right?" Amy Cooper said.

The problem with her claim of being terrified by the remark is that after he made the remark he proceeded to demonstrate what he meant by it, by reaching into his pocket and...pulling out a dog biscuit. Which he proceeded to lure the dog with, eventually throwing it on the ground. Also, she didn't run away, and in fact she moved toward him and got really close in spite of him telling her to back off. Her voice may have sounded fearful but her behavior said the opposite.

The only difference between the two versions is one of tone. He says he was calm and she says he was yelling. Based on the apparent emotional state of the two as shown in the video, which do you think is likely the more accurate account?
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
5,089
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Summary -
Harvard grad goes to Central park due to dorky old man hobby
Witnesses thug doing thug stuff
Asks thug to stop doing thug stuff
Attempts to feed thugs dog
Thug calls hit squad to come beat his ass
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
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An Obama & Buttigieg donor that appears to have deliberately botched her identification forms in order to avoid having to report the donations to her employer. LMAO. Of course.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,106
2,376
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Btw, I dont think she felt threatened by the man. I think she was butt-hurt at being in the wrong and called out for it, in this case by a black man. She was even approaching him at some point and he can be heard telling her to step back. Been seeing a lot of 'entitled Karens' vids lately on youtube most of them make a huge scene just from being butt-hurt.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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IMO...She wasn't even remotely afraid for her life and the tears weren't real. At the beginning of the video she marches right up to him and he has to tell her to stay back.

She was punishing him, pure and simple, for being a black man in what she clearly viewed was a white space.

I totally agree that she wasn't afraid. He voice sounded like it, but none of her actions suggested it.

I'm not sure she was punishing him for being black. Does she try to punish every black person she sees in New York, or just certain designated areas? I doubt it. I think you're ignoring that an argument broke out between the two of them before this which had nothing to do with race.

I think she was punishing him for telling him to leash her dog, also for taking the video. Like I alluded to earlier, being a frequent movie goer, I've seen at least 10 incidents where either I or someone else politely told someone to quiet down in a theater, and with only one exception, in every case the person became hostile and started talking even louder instead. People, especially the narcissistic kind who think it's OK to break the rules and just do whatever they want, tend to become hostile when a stranger embarrasses them by reminding them they are breaking the rules. Him taking the video heightened her embarrassment and made her even more hostile.

The racial aspect here came in her choice of how to retaliate against him. Seeing that he was black, she decides to "get him" by calling the police and telling them a scary black man was threatening her, knowing full well that at a minimum, this would place him in fear for his life or freedom. Had it been a white guy, I still think she would have been hostile, but likely would have just bitched him out instead of calling the cops. I don't think racism was the initial driver here but did come into play after the argument started.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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I totally agree that she wasn't afraid. He voice sounded like it, but none of her actions suggested it.

The racial aspect here came in her choice of how to retaliate against him. Seeing that he was black, she decides to "get him" by calling the police and telling them a scary black man was threatening her, knowing full well that at a minimum, this would place him in fear for his life or freedom. Had it been a white guy, I still think she would have been hostile, but likely would have just bitched him out instead of calling the cops. I don't think racism was the initial driver here but did come into play after the argument started.
She is either racist or knows enough about the racism inherent in the system that will illicit an aggressive response by the police department. That aggressive response would likely have resulted in the injury or death of Christian.

Does the name Susan Smith ring a bell? She killed kids but initially said it was 2 black guys. What do you think would prompt her to make that conscience decision?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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She is either racist or knows enough about the racism inherent in the system that will illicit an aggressive response by the police department. That aggressive response would likely have resulted in the injury or death of Christian.

Does the name Susan Smith ring a bell? She killed kids but initially said it was 2 black guys. What do you think would prompt her to make that conscience decision?

I think where some people don't get where I'm coming from when I comment on cases like this is that I do not believe racism is like and on/off switch. I don't think it's something you either have or don't have. I think it's something that people have by degrees. So in regards to this case, I will say that I don't think his being black in Central Park is what made her mad, because I've seen this pattern of people reacting badly to legitimate criticism from strangers many times before. But the fact she chose to vent her hostility toward him in this manner does suggest there was racism affecting her behavior.

I'm not trying to minimize lesser degrees of racism. In fact, it's important that people realize they exist or they can often remain concealed. I do, however, think that saying she was angry at him merely for being black in the wrong place is overcooking things. She lives in NY, a very multi-racial city, so I'm sure she sees black people in lots of different places every day. She can't be reacting this way every time simply because of that.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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We do know what happened before, because the guy posted about it in Facebook and she didn't challenge his version when she spoke with CNN. He was bird watching, and called her out for her dog not being on a leash, because there is a no leash rule and unleashed dogs tend to scare away ground dwelling birds. After arguing over the leash, she refused to leash the dog. This then ensued:

Oh I'm sure she feels she's on the wrong side of things. And I don't think any further information would make me think she isn't. It would be nice to see what led up to things. She was already emotional when the recording started.

The problem with her claim of being terrified by the remark is that after he made the remark he proceeded to demonstrate what he meant by it, by reaching into his pocket and...pulling out a dog biscuit. Which he proceeded to lure the dog with, eventually throwing it on the ground. Also, she didn't run away, and in fact she moved toward him and got really close in spite of him telling her to back off. Her voice may have sounded fearful but her behavior said the opposite.

The only difference between the two versions is one of tone. He says he was calm and she says he was yelling. Based on the apparent emotional state of the two as shown in the video, which do you think is likely the more accurate account?

From what we can see on video, he acquitted himself well when she got dysregulated.

I can't really say that her behavior is incompatible with fear as an emotion. The response there is fight, flight, or freeze. And it's a primitive response. It takes a lot to override that effectively and manage to stay rational. I think he was able to and she was not. Approaching a would-be aggressor and trying to look big/threatening is a normal response in mammals. It's not the only normal response, but it is one.

I think most likely she misread the situation and reacted to a perception of a threat which wasn't real and that, in hindsight, she recognized that she had no objective reason to have felt threatened in the first place. It's nearly inconceivable that reaction wasn't influenced by race. If in fact she is not racist beyond the unconscious racism inherent in all of us within a certain range of normal, then she may well have the opportunity to grow from this.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I have no idea what the exchange was before that encounter. I'm certain there was some conflict prior to the filming, but that doesn't mean the guy did anything wrong. If I were in his shoes even though I'm no threat to be racially profiled, I'm not going to try and call the dog over to leash him myself. That may have been what set things off. Totally the wrong way for her to react to that if so, though. I'm glad she gave up the dog and apologized. Hopefully these actions mean she was exposed to her internal biases, didn't like them, and took accountability for those actions.
I posted this about the incident in another thread:

"This is what happens when our self hate is put under stress. We have a woman who has given herself permission to break the law and called out for making that decision. Rather than simply owning up to the guilt of the egotistical exceptionalism she has given herself for breaking the lease law, her whole ego structure designed to prevent her from feeling how worthless she feels she is gets triggered instead. Suddenly her whole life really is under threat. She projects on him what she really feels, that she is actually worthless, the threat being he will force her to relive how she got that way. Immediately every defense mechanism she possessed kicks into action including that it is he, the other that is trying to kill her. Everything she fears has already happened. She is already emotionally dead. The threat is remembering how she got that way. That is what panic attacks are., terror when unconscious feelings threaten to surface."

I think she would admit to any internal bias so long as it isn't the one most hidden and most primary. Not that something isn't a good step if sincere.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I think she would admit to any internal bias so long as it isn't the one most hidden and most primary. Not that something isn't a good step if sincere.

Who knows? That's marked by affect, not words. I don't think being shunned will help her take that step.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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Oh I'm sure she feels she's on the wrong side of things. And I don't think any further information would make me think she isn't. It would be nice to see what led up to things. She was already emotional when the recording started.



From what we can see on video, he acquitted himself well when she got dysregulated.

I can't really say that her behavior is incompatible with fear as an emotion. The response there is fight, flight, or freeze. And it's a primitive response. It takes a lot to override that effectively and manage to stay rational. I think he was able to and she was not. Approaching a would-be aggressor and trying to look big/threatening is a normal response in mammals. It's not the only normal response, but it is one.

I think most likely she misread the situation and reacted to a perception of a threat which wasn't real and that, in hindsight, she recognized that she had no objective reason to have felt threatened in the first place. It's nearly inconceivable that reaction wasn't influenced by race. If in fact she is not racist beyond the unconscious racism inherent in all of us within a certain range of normal, then she may well have the opportunity to grow from this.

I don't agree because I think her action of calling the cops was motivated by anger rather than fear. I don't think a "fight" reaction would be terribly instinctive for a woman in a situation like that. Her voice did sound a little fearful before the call but did you notice how much more fearful it sounded once she got on the phone with the police? I think this was retaliation for him having the temerity to call her out for her rule breaking.

What's been your observation of how people react when they're 1) in a public place, and 2) a stranger chastises them for breaking the rules? Because that is exactly what happened here.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I don't agree because I think her action of calling the cops was motivated by anger rather than fear. I don't think a "fight" reaction would be terribly instinctive for a woman in a situation like that. Her voice did sound a little fearful before the call but did you notice how much more fearful it sounded once she got on the phone with the police? I think this was retaliation for him having the temerity to call her out for her rule breaking.

What's been your observation of how people react when they're 1) in a public place, and 2) a stranger chastises them for breaking the rules? Because that is exactly what happened here.

The primitive brain does not distinguish between emotional threats and physical ones. Anger is among the affects commonly experienced in the amygdala-mediated stress response.

In particular, an unexpected challenge is a lot more likely to result in such a response. There hasn't been adequate fear conditioning to anticipate response to such a situation limiting capacity to suppress the response in favor of cortical reasoning.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
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Btw, I dont think she felt threatened by the man. I think she was butt-hurt at being in the wrong and called out for it, in this case by a black man. She was even approaching him at some point and he can be heard telling her to step back. Been seeing a lot of 'entitled Karens' vids lately on youtube most of them make a huge scene just from being butt-hurt.

X2

IDK if she's reacting solely on racism, or just using that as an convenient and effective weapon against the guy (who was in the right.)

Eg, could have been a white dude, and maybe she'd just cry rape, maybe dog rape.
Who knows, def lost her shit for a perfectly legal and reasonable request. F her and the yoga pants she strode in on.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
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She's not being shunned but being outed. If she needs someone to explain the error of her ways I would volunteer.

Is there something about her response which indicates she needs that? Whether or not remorse is genuine?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
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Is there something about her response which indicates she needs that? Whether or not remorse is genuine?
There was a lie in her so called statement of remorse so I don't think it was genuine. I was just responding to the opinion she was being shunned which I don't believe is true.