There's a line around the block at the Gas Station!

[IceBergSLiM]

Don't bring kids to the world if you can't afford them.[/quote]
Wow, ignorance and immaturity together. So because a working couple doesn't have lots of extra money to spend that means they don't have the right or the ability to have children? And then when a common commodity gets so expensive and they can't afford a second job to help that expense it's THEIR fault for not seeing that circumstance coming 5, 10, 15 years prior?

Incredible...[/quote]

if your worried that much about 25 a week extra.....your only one unexpected "accident" away from bankruptcy. ****** happens. life happens. expenses occur when you least expect them. you have bigger problems than gas prices if you are this worried.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: archcommus
When you're already working 40 hours a week each parent, raising kids, and running a household, yeah, it is out of the question.

And besides, why the hell should I (or anyone else for that matter) have to lose more of my free time because the oil companies feel like raping us in the ass?

I understand your "solution" can work, but it's just the the nonchalant way you and so many others present it that annoys so many people. "Eh it's no big deal, move closer to your job! Get a new job! Get a second job!" Like those are things that shouldn't bother you, let alone are even possible in many cases. I'd like to hear how a family of four with two working parents who barely have enough to pay their bills each month can just up and move, or start wasting a couple hours each day by biking to work, or go look for and find new jobs that pay as much as their current ones without disrupting the household.

Everything you are describing was a personal choice. You choose where you live, where you work, whether or not to have kids, how much to pay for housing, how much to spend on extras, etc. Why should someone else feel bad for your life decisions? When will people be forced to take responsibility for their own actions?

Back up a second here. First, when did I say you should feel guilty for them? Second, what bad choice did they ever make? They choose lower income jobs. Okay, that's fine, big careers aren't for everyone. Then they choose to have kids. Okay, also fine, they can afford to do it. Then sometimes things go to hell and you become in a worse financial situation, and when things get tight even little things like gas can be a big deal. I don't see how that is anyone's fault.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: iversonyin
Its immature and irresponsible to have kids if you can't afford them the basic needs. PERIOD.

They COULD afford things just fine. Sometimes things change, jobs are lost, extra debt is incurred, gas prices become ridiculous, these things can't be forseen. Is that so hard to understand?

No, if $25 a week extra cause a ruckus in your budget, you shouldn't have kids. And its life, deal with it.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: iversonyin
Its immature and irresponsible to have kids if you can't afford them the basic needs. PERIOD.

They COULD afford things just fine. Sometimes things change, jobs are lost, extra debt is incurred, gas prices become ridiculous, these things can't be forseen. Is that so hard to understand?

yes exactly sh1t happens you wont expect.....you need to plan for those times.

 

[EKKC]

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: iversonyin


Don't bring kids to the world if you can't afford them.

Wow, ignorance and immaturity together. So because a working couple doesn't have lots of extra money to spend that means they don't have the right or the ability to have children? And then when a common commodity gets so expensive they can't afford a second job to help that expense it's THEIR fault for not seeing that circumstance coming 5, 10, 15 years prior?

Incredible...

he's just saying what it is. takes one to know one, you calling someone ignorant and immature, well that makes two of you (and me i guess!)
you take into account, BEFORE you have kids, of all the financial responsibilities you already have and add the extra cost of raising the child, and then take into the effects of inflation. if you don't think you can afford one, think twice before going to bed naked with the wife. if you made the choice, and when things get pricey, make other sacrifices, complaining about it and being mad about it won't do you any good. and those sacrifices mean: eat out less, ride a bike, invest in oil stocks, find a closer job etc, etc, etc.

when life presents you a problem, smart people think about ways to get around them, dumb people throw up their hands and say "i can't deal with this sh!t".

 

[j00fek]

suck it up people, gas isnt going down any time soon!

 

[EKKC]

4 dollar by next month.
5 dollar with a hurricane.
10 dollar when we invade Iran.

yay. i get to stay home for work.

 

[archcommus]

Okay, wow, I don't how to explain this any more clearly to the bunch of you replying here. It's not like a couple were living who were on the brink of bankruptcy, and then they decided, hey let's have kids. They WERE in a better state at one point in time. Then sh!t happens as you all know so well. How is that anyone's bad judgement? The origin of this ENTIRE argument was simply that not everyone can just up and move, or get new jobs, or get second jobs. I don't see how you can dispute that.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: archcommus
Okay, wow, I don't how to explain this any more clearly to the bunch of you replying here. It's not like a couple were living who were on the brink of bankruptcy, and then they decided, hey let's have kids. They WERE in a better state at one point in time. Then sh!t happens as you all know so well. How is that anyone's bad judgement? The origin of this ENTIRE argument was simply that not everyone can just up and move, or get new jobs, or get second jobs. I don't see how you can dispute that.

dont bother explaining. everyone sits on a high horse here

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: archcommus
When you're already working 40 hours a week each parent, raising kids, and running a household, yeah, it is out of the question.

And besides, why the hell should I (or anyone else for that matter) have to lose more of my free time because the oil companies feel like raping us in the ass?

I understand your "solution" can work, but it's just the the nonchalant way you and so many others present it that annoys so many people. "Eh it's no big deal, move closer to your job! Get a new job! Get a second job!" Like those are things that shouldn't bother you, let alone are even possible in many cases. I'd like to hear how a family of four with two working parents who barely have enough to pay their bills each month can just up and move, or start wasting a couple hours each day by biking to work, or go look for and find new jobs that pay as much as their current ones without disrupting the household.

It takes me 20 minutes to drive my car to work and another 20 minutes to drive home in the evening on a good day. By bike I can do it in 40 minutes. I wouldn't say that the extra 40 minutes I spend commuting by bike each day is wasted though. How many people spend that much time driving to and from a gym just to get half the exercise I'm getting on my commute to and from work?

I agree, that's really great you have the time to spare and are getting that workout, that's not wasted time at all. But my example is citing 50+ year old full time working parents. Biking 20 miles a day on highway just isn't realistic.

I am 40 years old with a wife and a son who turns 5 this August. My wife is self employed but she works just as hard/long as I do...maybe even more.

Just some food for thought. :beer:

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: archcommus
Okay, wow, I don't how to explain this any more clearly to the bunch of you replying here. It's not like a couple were living who were on the brink of bankruptcy, and then they decided, hey let's have kids. They WERE in a better state at one point in time. Then sh!t happens as you all know so well. How is that anyone's bad judgement? The origin of this ENTIRE argument was simply that not everyone can just up and move, or get new jobs, or get second jobs. I don't see how you can dispute that.

ATOT always makes things so simple...

Gas prices too high? Move closer to work.
Can't move closer because cost of housing too high in city? Get a better job.
Can't get a better job? Go back to school.

Sure, they may seem like simple solutions when you're talking about them, but actually doing the solutions isn't always easy.

 

[EKKC]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: archcommus
Okay, wow, I don't how to explain this any more clearly to the bunch of you replying here. It's not like a couple were living who were on the brink of bankruptcy, and then they decided, hey let's have kids. They WERE in a better state at one point in time. Then sh!t happens as you all know so well. How is that anyone's bad judgement? The origin of this ENTIRE argument was simply that not everyone can just up and move, or get new jobs, or get second jobs. I don't see how you can dispute that.

dont bother explaining. everyone sits on a high horse here

but how does complaining make a difference. the time wasted on complaining can be "wasted" for riding that bike or "wasted" for that second job.

if you were well off at some point in time and then inflation and other normal circumstances caught up to your salary, that means you are actually on the decline and you need to look at why that is happening. a new job may be what you need to boost you up.

gas prices went up, everyone complains, do you complain about milk prices that has also gone up like crazy? no, because you consume that a lot less. but just from that, you can tell that everything around you is increasing in its price and cost, if you are making the same amount as you were 5 or 10 years ago. something is wrong with you, not the economy

 

[TheAdvocate]

#1 People are not bitching about the high price of gas. That would be kind of pointless. It sucks but its inoffensive. What IS offensive, is high price of gas PLUS record profits not just for the oil industry, but historical record profits for any company anywhere. It's ridiculous.

And yes, I realize that the govt is dis-incented to care about increased pump prices, because every increase drives up tax revenues. You've got the govt in de facto common cause with robber baron oilco's. The worst possible situation.

#2 To the moron's spouting the milk argument:

a) I am concerned that it is going up. But not that concerned. It's ****** MILK. (see point b for clarification)

b) Milk has lots of readily avilable substitutes. Gas doesn't.

c) I use a Gallon of milk every couple of weeks. I use 50 gallons of gas commuting to my job in the same time frame. 50>>>>>>>>>>1.


#3 - I've already summed up the situation concisely:

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Lack of real substitutes + iron grip of collusional oligopy + pretext of holiday weekend somehow affecting supply that has been in groud tanks for weeks = massive price spike and record profits.

 

[Exodor]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
And yes, I realize that the govt is dis-incented to care about increased pump prices, because every increase drives up tax revenues. You've got the govt in de facto common cause with robber baron oilco's. The worst possible situation.

Wha?

Aren't most gas taxes simply a per gallon tax?

High gas prices tend to reduce consumption which would reduce the take from gasoline taxes.

The govt. is "dis-incented" to care about gasoline prices because were are (mostly) a free-market society. Without evidence of price-fixing or other misdeeds the government should stay the hell out.

 

[EKKC]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
#1 People are not bitching about the high price of gas. That would be kind of pointless. It sucks but its inoffensive. What IS offensive, is high price of gas PLUS record profits not just for the oil industry, but historical record profits for any company anywhere. It's ridiculous.

And yes, I realize that the govt is dis-incented to care about increased pump prices, because every increase drives up tax revenues. You've got the govt in de facto common cause with robber baron oilco's. The worst possible situation.

#2 To the moron's spouting the milk argument:

a) I am concerned that it is going up. But not that concerned. It's ****** MILK. (see point b for clarification)

b) Milk has lots of readily avilable substitutes. Gas doesn't.

c) I use a Gallon of milk every couple of weeks. I use 50 gallons of gas commuting to my job in the same time frame. 50>>>>>>>>>>1.


#3 - I've already summed up the situation concisely:

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Lack of real substitutes + iron grip of collusional oligopy + pretext of holiday weekend somehow affecting supply that has been in groud tanks for weeks = massive price spike and record profits.

before you go name calling, i was using the milk argument as an example that EVERYTHING around us is increasing in price. it's not just gas. when everything around you goes up, and you end up with a low salary increase that can't even cover basic inflation, then it's time to go look for another job.

 

[Old Hippie]

What IS offensive, is high price of gas PLUS record profits not just for the oil industry, but historical record profits for any company anywhere. It's ridiculous.

Perfect. :thumbsup:

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Exodor

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
And yes, I realize that the govt is dis-incented to care about increased pump prices, because every increase drives up tax revenues. You've got the govt in de facto common cause with robber baron oilco's. The worst possible situation.

Wha?

Aren't most gas taxes simply a per gallon tax?

Depends on which state. I live in the SE where some are based on pump or wholesale prices, not per gallon. See this chart.

The govt. is "dis-incented" to care about gasoline prices because were are (mostly) a free-market society. Without evidence of price-fixing or other misdeeds the government should stay the hell out.

The Oilco's receive massive subsidies from govt. Having a single basic fuel for the entire economy with no substitutes necessitates govt involvement. That doesn't mean taxes, that means some watchdogging in the interest of preserving the economic balance lest we implode, a la the stock market and the '29 crash.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: archcommus
Okay, wow, I don't how to explain this any more clearly to the bunch of you replying here. It's not like a couple were living who were on the brink of bankruptcy, and then they decided, hey let's have kids. They WERE in a better state at one point in time. Then sh!t happens as you all know so well. How is that anyone's bad judgement? The origin of this ENTIRE argument was simply that not everyone can just up and move, or get new jobs, or get second jobs. I don't see how you can dispute that.

dont bother explaining. everyone sits on a high horse here

Not high horse, just not a whiner. People that go out and get something done instead of whining on the internet for $25 a week. Like it helps if you whine.

People who are motivated will move, will find a way to pay for higher gas price. People who are not motivated will sit their arse home and whine and whine and whine. Give me a break. I started a thread on gas price like 2 months ago, and you can throw a freaking dart on any oil companies and buy their stocks and make a good 10-20% since. Of course, its easier just sit home and whine.

 

[IGBT]

..blame the enviro-wacko's for interfering with the construction of new refineries. No new refineries in the US in 30 years.

 

[Wonderful Pork]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
#1 People are not bitching about the high price of gas. That would be kind of pointless. It sucks but its inoffensive. What IS offensive, is high price of gas PLUS record profits not just for the oil industry, but historical record profits for any company anywhere. It's ridiculous.

And yes, I realize that the govt is dis-incented to care about increased pump prices, because every increase drives up tax revenues. You've got the govt in de facto common cause with robber baron oilco's. The worst possible situation.

This is exactly what bothers me. When Katrina hit and all the refineries went down and oil was up to 78/barrel gas was ~$3.10. That I understand.

Now they are STILL blaming refinery issues 2 years later and refineries seem to keep going down week after week but they are having NO issue supplying the 25 million (or whatever) barrels we need per day since there aren't any empty stations! (Empty stations due to being 30c less per gallon is a different issue.)

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if they we losing ANY money trying to keep up with the demand that all the refineries would be running at >97% capacity. But they are creating a perceived artificial shortage and the futures traders are driving up the price based on that speculation. Thats what bothers me.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
#1 People are not bitching about the high price of gas. That would be kind of pointless. It sucks but its inoffensive. What IS offensive, is high price of gas PLUS record profits not just for the oil industry, but historical record profits for any company anywhere. It's ridiculous.

If you own stocks in anyway, it wouldn't so ridiculous. Would it?

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: Wonderful Pork

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
#1 People are not bitching about the high price of gas. That would be kind of pointless. It sucks but its inoffensive. What IS offensive, is high price of gas PLUS record profits not just for the oil industry, but historical record profits for any company anywhere. It's ridiculous.

And yes, I realize that the govt is dis-incented to care about increased pump prices, because every increase drives up tax revenues. You've got the govt in de facto common cause with robber baron oilco's. The worst possible situation.

This is exactly what bothers me. When Katrina hit and all the refineries went down and oil was up to 78/barrel gas was ~$3.10. That I understand.

Now they are STILL blaming refinery issues 2 years later and refineries seem to keep going down week after week but they are having NO issue supplying the 25 million (or whatever) barrels we need per day since there aren't any empty stations! (Empty stations due to being 30c less per gallon is a different issue.)

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if they we losing ANY money trying to keep up with the demand that all the refineries would be running at >97% capacity. But they are creating a perceived artificial shortage and the futures traders are driving up the price based on that speculation. Thats what bothers me.

When was the last time we build a refinery and why?

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..blame the enviro-wacko's for interfering with the construction of new refineries. No new refineries in the US in 30 years.

P&N is that way if you want to regurgitate talking points.

PS - the oilco's haven't asked for a new refinery in years. There are complete barriers to new competition and no incentive to build more refining capacity when they can jack up the prices for their current refining capacity and experience the windfall they've experienced in the last couple of years.

 

[AdamK47]

It would take me roughly 8 minutes at work to make up the difference for 15 gallons.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: IGBT
..blame the enviro-wacko's for interfering with the construction of new refineries. No new refineries in the US in 30 years.

P&N is that way if you want to regurgitate talking points.

PS - the oilco's haven't asked for a new refinery in years. There are complete barriers to new competition and no incentive to build more refining capacity when they can jack up the prices for their current refining capacity and experience the windfall they've experienced in the last couple of years.

No refineries build maybe it wasn't profitable to do so? On top of regulations....