There's a freeze on listing more species to the federally endangered or threatened species lists!!!!

FettsBabe

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Wildlife Service says hands are tied by lawsuits

Environmentalists filed a lawsuit on behalf of the northern goshawk for listing as an endangered species

January 3, 2001
Web posted at: 10:14 a.m. EST (1514 GMT)

By Environmental News Network staff

Are environmentalists preventing endangered species from getting protection? The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service seems to think so.

In November, the service announced a freeze until September on listing more species as federally endangered or threatened.

Why? According to the agency, it's too busy dealing with lawsuits filed by environmental groups.

For some of the nearly 300 species presently under consideration and another 34 proposed to be listed, this suspension could mean extinction.

But the FWS says it has no choice. The lawsuits, explains agency spokesperson Hugh Vickery, "are using up every resource we have. The people who have brought about this flood of lawsuits are not helping endangered species."

The service is besieged by more than 60 lawsuits and has received another 80 notices of intent to sue. More than half of all the lawsuits require the agency to designate "critical habitat" for species already listed as endangered or threatened. But since habitat is already protected under the Endangered Species Act, says Vickery, the lawsuits consume time and resources that could be focused on listing and protecting other species.

Many environmental groups don't agree. For one thing, litigation is the only reason many species get listed in the first place, they say. Of 1,234 plants and animals currently listed, 74 percent are a result of lawsuits or citizen petitions, according to Kieran Suckling, science and policy director of the Center for Biological Diversity in Tucson.


The future of the black-footed ferret, thought to be extinct in 1972, looks promising, thanks to a successful captive breeding program

Nor does a listing often adequately safeguard habitat, he says. A critical habitat designation, on the other hand, protects places where the animal lives as well as areas where it could live.

For species on the brink, that's a vital distinction. Take the endangered ferrunginous pygmy owl, which numbers only 30 in all of Arizona. The Army Corps of Engineers had been providing permits for housing developments on land that was owl habitat. Since no owls could be found there, the corps argued, the land could be developed. After a critical habitat designation, however, development ceased.

While both sides agree that more money could help solve the problem, the ones currently paying the price during this legal logjam are the wait-listed species.

The listing process is notoriously slow already?at least 39 species have gone extinct while waiting for protection. One of the plants currently on hold, a single remaining population of the Ventura marsh milkvetch, was first petitioned to be listed in 1975.

"That's a species that could go extinct because of this," says Suckling. Others in jeopardy include coastal cutthroat trout in the Northwest, the Chiricahua leopard frog in Arizona and the Buena Vista Lake shrew in California.

On Dec. 13, the Center for Biological Diversity filed a formal notice of intent to sue to stop the FWS's moratorium, and this week the center plans to file a lawsuit. Suckling believes the moratorium will be struck down.

"This policy is outrageous," he says. "It's going to get laughed out of court."

**It better get struck down. I'm so sick and tired of everyone complaining about wildlife preserves, etc. Let'em keep building their nice fancy homes, and apartment complexes, and then when all the animals die we can watch them dig up the roads, so they can plant food for them to eat. Dumbasses.
:|

People need to learn to respect their environment, and respect animals homes as well as the homes to plants, etc. Only then will we be able to balance the chain of life.
 

ArkAoss

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why dont people who know these things are dying out, protect them on there own?? jeez how hard is it to get a seed sample from a plant.. or clipping . .. and with animals, well. . . why do they have to be listed endangered to get help. if people know their endangered enough to complain and sue, they should instead do it on their own dim witted fools.
 

vi edit

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ArkAoss, when a species gets put on the list, certain laws are put in place to prohibit, hunting, trapping, and endangering of the species. It is a federal law and pulls heafty fines if broken.

As it is right now, you would be subject to the state laws on poaching, which have lower sanctions if broken.
 

beat mania

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What exactly is the reason for preserving near extinct species? Logically speaking, if they're near extinct, they don't have a very major impact on the food chain, environment, etc. so why does it matter if there is 10 of X instead of 0 of X?
I'm not calling for killing them all or anything, but I just thought about it, and doesn't seem to make sense to me.
 

Azraele

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Nov 5, 2000
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<<People need to learn to respect their environment, and respect animals homes as well as the homes to plants, etc. Only then will we be able to balance the chain of life. >>

Amen to that!
 

FettsBabe

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Oct 21, 1999
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Regardless of how minor a animal seems they are extremely important in the chain of life. For example, there is a certain plankton which is dying out, and this is what a lot of penguins eat, so when its gone what will those penguins eat? Then when thats gone what will they eat? Everything has an impact on everyone's life, but most people don't take the time to realize what that impact is.
 

Azraele

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beat mania: the reason for preserving them is the fact that humans are usually responsible for their near extinction in the first place. We destroy their homes, their food, and hunt them mercilessly for their hides, tusks, etc. We need to take responisbility for our actions and take care of those we hurt. The planet does not just belong to us afterall, we have to share.
 

Azraele

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fettsbabe has a good point as well. When one species dies out altogether, say plankton, the whales and other animals that rely on that plankton for their sole food source will starve to death, causing their extinction. And so it continues on through the chain.
 

Wedesdo

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those hippy enviromnentalists and animal rights people should be killed. they disrupted research and development for our species' benefit countless times and are sucking money out of our pockets by their incessent lawsuits.

sure, some species can help us find cures, etc, but most are useless. let them die. surival of the fittest, remeber? if those species aren't fit, they don't get to surive.
 

vi edit

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sure, some species can help us find cures, etc, but most are useless. let them die. surival of the fittest, remeber? if those species aren't fit, they don't get to surive.

I thought the same thing about old aunt Edna who was on that iron lung for the last 4 years of her life. She's useless, sucks up resources, and takes up space. Just cut the cord and let her die right?

Oh, wait. She doesn't have four legs and a tail. Damn. She has more value than that black footed ferret. My error.
 

Azraele

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Wedesdo: if that's the way you feel about it I certainly won't cry when you go extinct. It's people like you who are a hazard to all on this planet, human and animal alike.

<edit>
With that attitude, there should be no hospitals to heal the sick and injured. &quot;Survival of the fittest,&quot; right?
 

FettsBabe

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Wedesdo - There's a place I could tell you to go, but I don't think I should say it here. Oh by the way, you are useless not the animals. :|
 

DABANSHEE

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Dec 8, 1999
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You're an idiot Wedesdo - everything is interconnected, when the human species destroys the habitats of other species its also destroying its own habitat by default.

Besides humans are causing extinctions a 1000 times faster than species can evolve to cope with us. So 'survival of the fittest' doesnt follow in this regard.
 

FettsBabe

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You can make a difference by emailing your local US Fish and Wildlife Service...go to this website

Endangered

and click on contacts in your area, and then click on the map. It will then bring up a list of names just pick the appropriate one for your area. Atlanta got a email from me!!!!!
 

Optimus

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Aug 23, 2000
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Well, there do need to be balances in what we can do and what we try to do. If some of these groups are suing to get the Northern White spotted reticulated chipmunk put on the endangered list because there are only 5000 left, but the Northern Grey spotted reticulated chipmunk is abundant... well then if such lawsuits interfere with the preservation of something like an entire unique species of ape or birds... not smart.

Balance! I think we should do our best, but prioritize our battles.
 

Wedesdo

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wait 100 years and see. by that time, we will either have extremely efficient plants for oxygen, sugar, and protein, or we will make those our selves using orbiting platforms using solar power and nanobots (btw, the first steps are already complete. we can manufacture extremely small objects with high precision. see here )

also, diseses will also be cured using nanobots, and specialized bacteria (they are already using them now) can be used to degreade pollutants, etc. when I am talking about surival of the fittest, I was talking about an entire species. when a species can no longer face its competitors, it dies out. that's evolution, which is what the world has been running on for the past 3 billion years. xians may disagree with me on that, but I won't go there.
 

FettsBabe

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<< when I am talking about surival of the fittest, I was talking about an entire species. when a species can no longer face its competitors, it dies out. that's evolution, >>



When it's competitors are tearing down its home, and the animal doesn't have the capability to plant new trees then I would say thats murder not evolution.

When the products we use kill animals then I would say thats murder too, not evolution.

Besides not everyone wants to live on a space station or have generated food. I, myself, prefer the great outdoors, and you will too when you don't have it anymore.
 

Wedesdo

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also, my main point was that environmentalists/animal rights activists hurt the economy and our wallets!

they don't like animals being used for food of research. fine

they don't like other people using animals for food of research. WRONG!

if they don't like something, don't do it. don't force it upon other people by illegal petitions, breaking in to labs, lawsuits, etc. all those increase our costs (drugs are more expensive because either the company gave in or has to hire extra security or fend off lawsuits, taxes are more because those hippies sue too much, etc.)

they also restrict our right to free speech. remember the peta.org fiasco back in 1996 (it was orgionally [and rightfully] registered to People for the Eating of Tasty Animals), and the People for the Ethical (in their opinion) Treatment of Animals forcefully made InterNIC give the domain to them. that's just like robbery, instead they did it with lawyers instead of guns.

see here for more info on that event
 

Wedesdo

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<< Besides not everyone wants to live on a space station or have generated food. I, myself, prefer the great outdoors, and you will too when you don't have it anymore. >>



well, FettsBabe, you can do it, fine, but don't force everyone else to, which is that the environmentalists/animal rights activists are doing.

also, if you want the FWS to do something, instead of more lawsuits, drop them and give them money. don't force our taxpayers to give more for their stupid &quot;ideals&quot;!
 

FettsBabe

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Oct 21, 1999
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You don't have a right to kill animals (check your local state laws for proof). Therefore, you don't have the right to murder animals indirectly.



<< also, my main point was that environmentalists/animal rights activists hurt the economy and our wallets! >>



Who gives a Sh!t. Point here, it would be easier for us to take humans and do research on them, but people like you won't do that because you think its wrong to do that to a human. &quot;Hurt the economy and our wallets is a Dumb Argument. Tell it to someone who's ignorant.

BTW, I do have the right to tell you what to do when you are destroying something that should be respected. Some people believe murder is ok, so should I force them to go to jail for their unlawful acts? Sure, I should, and that gives me the right to stop you from murdering animals.

Also, civil disobedience gets attention!! I guess you can review history for proof of that.



<< they also restrict our right to free speech. remember the peta.org fiasco back in 1996 (it was orgionally [and rightfully] registered to People for the Eating of Tasty Animals), and the People for the Ethical (in their opinion) Treatment of Animals forcefully made InterNIC give the domain to them. that's just like robbery, instead they did it with lawyers instead of guns. >>



It is stated in local law that another organization cannot deliberately take a close resemblance in its name, etc. to a charity and rights organization for its own profit or goal. Also, this is followed down into corporate law. For example, people took Oakley sunglasses and decided to sell Oarley sunglasses, and then was stopped in our area because it gave the impression of Oakleys. The same would go for websites.
 

FettsBabe

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Oct 21, 1999
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<< also, if you want the FWS to do something, instead of more lawsuits, drop them and give them money. don't force our taxpayers to give more for their stupid &quot;ideals&quot;! >>



Personally I like the idea of you having to pay!!!!!! ;)
 

Wedesdo

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Jun 5, 2000
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<< Who gives a Sh!t. Point here, it would be easier for us to take humans and do research on them, but people like you won't do that because you think its wrong to do that to a human. >>



though evolution, we have evolved to be much more protective of our own species than anyother. and humans are just much more valuable than animals. we can think, use logic, invent, debate, etc. animals just sit there, consusme resources, and expel wastes.



<< &quot;Hurt the economy and our wallets is a Dumb Argument. Tell it to someone who's ignorant. >>



Why is it a dumb argument? We need evidence here. Since you can't provide it, I have to assue that you cannot counter it.



<< BTW, I do have the right to tell you what to do when you are destroying something that should be respected. Some people believe murder is ok, so should I force them to go to jail for their unlawful acts? Sure, I should, and that gives me the right to stop you from murdering animals. >>



Yes, but you don't have the right to break into labs, go into privaet property, start riots. Also murder and food are 2 completely differences, and thus you analogy is invalid. Also, we don't murder animals, we EAT them, just like what our ancestors have done for the past 3 years. If the animals you want to protect didn't eat other animals, they would die also. What a bunch of hypocrites.



<< Also, civil disobedience gets attention!! I guess you can review history for proof of that. >>



THE ENDS DOESN'T JUSTIFY THE MEANS!
 

FettsBabe

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Regarding the hurting of the ecomony...it would be more economical for businesses and research labs to do the tests on humans instead of animals therefore, your argument is invalid. If those companies use humans instead of animals then they wouldn't spend millions of dollars trying to guess-ti-mate what effects the chemicals or medication would have on humans. Therefore, why wouldn't we use bums? Afterall, they just sit there!! I'm not promoting this is anyway just like I don't promote animal testing.



<< we can think, use logic, invent, debate, etc. animals just sit there, consusme resources, and expel wastes. >>



Animals do think and use logic. Have you ever saw a mother protect her young, or watch a bird build a nest. Probably not because you are to busy killing animals. Take the time, and maybe you would gain some respect.



<< Yes, but you don't have the right to break into labs, go into privaet property, start riots. Also murder and food are 2 completely differences, and thus you analogy is invalid. Also, we don't murder animals, we EAT them, just like what our ancestors have done for the past 3 years. If the animals you want to protect didn't eat other animals, they would die also. What a bunch of hypocrites. >>



I never said we couldn't eat animals! Where did you even get that? I eat meat, but I certainly would not eat an endangered species. I also believe in replenishing the earth when we take from it. I also would not have a piano with real ivory keys. I also don't buy makeup from companies that use animals for research or use animals in their product.

<< Also, civil disobedience gets attention!! I guess you can review history for proof of that. THE ENDS DOESN'T JUSTIFY THE MEANS! >>

Tell that to the first black person that sat down at Woolworth's to eat, or the first black person to ride on a bus, or drink from a fountain.

Maybe the point here is that your end of saving money doesn't justify the means of you killing animals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!