dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
This had to be understood in the planning stages of this war..
kill their families - check
take away their jobs - check
sell the oilfields to US companies - check
give the jobs to illegal aliens from other impoverished nations - check
creates more terrorists - which justifies us being there.. - check
I'm shocked... SHOCKED, I tell you!... :shocked:
Linkage to the full transcript on CBS.
This is exactly what Joseph Wilson said in 2003 and it's the reason the Bushwhacko's went after him by outing his wife, Valerie Plame Wilson's identity as a covert CIA agent.
It's time for some indictments of this adminstration for treason! :|
Linkage to the full transcript on CBS.
This is exactly what Joseph Wilson said in 2003 and it's the reason the Bushwhacko's went after him by outing his wife, Valerie Plame Wilson's identity as a covert CIA agent.
It's time for some indictments of this adminstration for treason! :|
Originally posted by: Phokus
Yeah but i have the video version so there
Video or no video, it would go under the OP, there is also video in OP link.
Phokus
Lifer
- Nov 20, 1999
- 22,994
- 779
- 126
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Phokus
Yeah but i have the video version so there
Video or no video, it would go under the OP, there is also video in OP link.
Oh yeah, well the OP had a really crappy generic thread title, mine is more specific
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
- 126
OPs statement is misleading. Yes, there certainly WERE WMDs in Iraq, they were documented by UN inspectors and admitted to by Iraq. However, there were none in Iraq in 2003 when we invaded, so in that regard, OP is correct...but to say there were NEVER WMDs in Iraq is totally false.
In fact, one of the biggest excuses was the list Iraq presented to the UN before the invasion; many of those documented by the UN had been disposed of, and were on the list; but others which had been documented were NOT on the list, so the question was, "Where did they go? Were they disposed of, or moved?" Iraq refused to answer the question, and claimed the list was complete, even though by their own admission previously, said weapons DID exist. They obviously went somewhere, or else Iraq DID dispose of them, and was just thumbing its nose at the US. Either way, they certainly existed (seen by UN and admitted by Iraq) and they didn't vanish into thin air.
However, IMO, Bush was determined to invade Iraq in any case, so the above FACTS just played into his bumbling hands. Iraq DID break every single term of the 1991 ceasefire, and DID lie about their WMDs, but Bush is just not smart enough to be president. Had CNN broadcast live video of Iraqi WMDs, Bush STILL would've charged in like a bull in a china shop, with no plan and no troops, just a loudspeaker blaring "we're spreading freedom". He's a child, and at this point, even if they unearthed a cache of WMDs, he's still failed miserably.
In fact, one of the biggest excuses was the list Iraq presented to the UN before the invasion; many of those documented by the UN had been disposed of, and were on the list; but others which had been documented were NOT on the list, so the question was, "Where did they go? Were they disposed of, or moved?" Iraq refused to answer the question, and claimed the list was complete, even though by their own admission previously, said weapons DID exist. They obviously went somewhere, or else Iraq DID dispose of them, and was just thumbing its nose at the US. Either way, they certainly existed (seen by UN and admitted by Iraq) and they didn't vanish into thin air.
However, IMO, Bush was determined to invade Iraq in any case, so the above FACTS just played into his bumbling hands. Iraq DID break every single term of the 1991 ceasefire, and DID lie about their WMDs, but Bush is just not smart enough to be president. Had CNN broadcast live video of Iraqi WMDs, Bush STILL would've charged in like a bull in a china shop, with no plan and no troops, just a loudspeaker blaring "we're spreading freedom". He's a child, and at this point, even if they unearthed a cache of WMDs, he's still failed miserably.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 35,406
- 9,601
- 136
Those WMD which you would happily claim never existed, were factually proven to exist when they were used on Iraqis around the time of the first Iraq war.
The question would be what happened to those weapons between the two Iraq wars and if there were any in Iraq by the time we started the build up of the second war.
The question would be what happened to those weapons between the two Iraq wars and if there were any in Iraq by the time we started the build up of the second war.
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
- 126
We knew there were WMD's in the first Gulf war. We helped Saddam obtain and grow them while he and Iraq were fighting our enemy Iran.
The evidence was BS'ed to make it look like Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's to fool the world into an invastion. It has been a miserable failure. Not worth one soldier's life not worth one penny of OUR tax money. PERIOD!
PNAC bastards forcing their utopian view upon the world. They suck!!!
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Ok--consider the following facts.
1. Rumsfeld was our point man in helping encourage Saddam to obtain WMD--back when Saddam was our man in the Mid-east
2. That Saddam emerged from gulf war one with just a shell of a military. By treaty he was supposed to destroy his stocks of WMD. The CIA in fact learned he entrusted this removal to his sons in law--and they conformed this when both defected--sadly Saddam enticed both back and killed them.
3. The rumor that Saddam still had WMD helped disguise Saddam's military weakness.--hence Saddam played along.
4. We had accurate intel on Saddams military streagth prior to starting Gulf war 2---if Dumsfeld genuinely believed Saddam had WMD, he would have been criminal to expose our troops to them--and hence would have started a protected air war first to force surrender-----------the fact that he allowed ground troops in early early on---and choose the limited forces senario is living testiment that Rumsfeld knew Saddam had no WMD--and was lying when he said they even might.
And yes its important to flat out say lying---no sugar coating it by saying its a mere canard--or a little white lie--or whatever.
1. Rumsfeld was our point man in helping encourage Saddam to obtain WMD--back when Saddam was our man in the Mid-east
2. That Saddam emerged from gulf war one with just a shell of a military. By treaty he was supposed to destroy his stocks of WMD. The CIA in fact learned he entrusted this removal to his sons in law--and they conformed this when both defected--sadly Saddam enticed both back and killed them.
3. The rumor that Saddam still had WMD helped disguise Saddam's military weakness.--hence Saddam played along.
4. We had accurate intel on Saddams military streagth prior to starting Gulf war 2---if Dumsfeld genuinely believed Saddam had WMD, he would have been criminal to expose our troops to them--and hence would have started a protected air war first to force surrender-----------the fact that he allowed ground troops in early early on---and choose the limited forces senario is living testiment that Rumsfeld knew Saddam had no WMD--and was lying when he said they even might.
And yes its important to flat out say lying---no sugar coating it by saying its a mere canard--or a little white lie--or whatever.
Yes THERE WERE. There was no African yellowcake, or any uranium suitable for weapons production, but there was surely a boatload of other types of WMDs.
And they were shown to UN inspectors. Iraq admitted to having them, UN saw and documented them. These are the facts. Some, but not all, were disposed of, and listed as such by Iraq when it turned over the list to the UN in late 2002-early 2003. However, some of the WMDs ADMITTED by Iraq and DOCUMENTED by the UN were NOT on the list, and Iraq refused to say where they went. So they certainly existed, and did not just evaporate; they were either destroyed (in which case they would've been on the list to prove Bush wrong and prevent invasion), hidden, or moved (Syria, Iran, or wherever).
So there were indeed WMDs in Iraq; where they were in 2003, I have no idea, but there is NO DOUBT that they existed after 1991. There are plenty of reasons to hate Bush and his badly bungled war without making up lies.
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 15,622
- 8,149
- 136
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
Because economic sanctions and occasionally dropping a few bombs on Iraq to keep them in check was the approved solution...people were dying in Iraq prior to our invasion...but those deaths weren't even a blip on the news media radar screen, and hence no one really cared about it.
Ironic that people only care about "innocent lives" when it is politically convenient to do so.
Incompetence unfortunately is not a crime deserving of impeachment.
I do not understand why the Bush Administration pursued a war with Iraq...the only logic stream I can project is that the Bush Administration wanted to create a power vacuum in the Middle East that would expose and also strain Al Quaida resources...removing the Taliban was not enough of a blow to Al Quaida...we chose Iraq because the world had no love for Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi military was an easy target, and we assumed the Iraqi people would ultimately welcome us with open arms...while we certainly achieved the strategic goal of diverting Al Quaida resources to a war in their own backyard, we did so without the support of the international community or the Iraqi people...hence the backtracking and double speak.
The WMDs was simply the excuse to launch another military front in the Middle East...when our Allies failed to play along, that is where Bush should have pursued another strategy.
Bush is guilty of being an arrogant and impetuous leader...unfortunate, considering that a more balanced and reasonable response would have probably elevated him to prestige and greatness.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 65,907
- 14,308
- 146
We basically owned the skies over Iraq for several years before we invaded. Where did these WMD's go, and how did they get moved without being seen? Is it possible that they were actually destroyed per the UN agreement, yet Saddam kept up the bluff to appear strong to his people and to help keep the M.E. jackals at bay?
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 15,622
- 8,149
- 136
your commentary makes good sense, considering how fluid the administration is about the whole affair. it's just that the obtuse, evasive and secretive nature of the bush presidency prevents me from ascribing anything remotely honorable to bush's efforts in regard to iraq, or for that matter, his overall agenda as our president.
i agree that it would be the sensible thing to do, but we are considering bush here. based on his comments and actions as our president, it looks like his purpose for acquiring iraq did not include any meaningful justification that some of our other "allies" were expecting as reasons to go to war against another nation.
apparently, bush's special way of creating corporate oil-based subsidiaries through waging war any time and anywhere he pleases was not justification enough for our allies to join in the fray. i guess bush couldn't answer their "what's in it for me?" question satisfactorily.
definetly so. it would have been quite easy for him to pursue a balanced and reasonable response had he chose to. as you noted, he didn't and imho that fact alone speaks volumes about his reasons for invading and subjugating an oil-rich and formerly-sovereign nation.
*edit* - spl
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
- 6,137
- 225
- 106
Really sad part is... They have been tapping your phone and using it as an excuse to do so! Violating your rights!!!
The really bad part is 50% of americans think this is OK! And........... All in the name of... If it only saved one american life! BS .... How could it when it was all a lie anyway? Where is the impeachment paperwork?
I knew this was a lie when the UN inspectors came back with 1000 page books and found NO WMD! But no one cared. It was all a big cover up ... And Bush really wanted to ANY reason to go to war. Spend More Money!
The really bad part is 50% of americans think this is OK! And........... All in the name of... If it only saved one american life! BS .... How could it when it was all a lie anyway? Where is the impeachment paperwork?
I knew this was a lie when the UN inspectors came back with 1000 page books and found NO WMD! But no one cared. It was all a big cover up ... And Bush really wanted to ANY reason to go to war. Spend More Money!
When people are as stupid as I think Bush is it's pretty hard to say for sure that he didn't believe the weapons were there. But that's just my opinion.
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