There is no god... says Hawking

[Doboji]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/02/hawking.god.universe/index.html

Unfortunately I agree with him...

The most common argument to prove the existence of god is the argument of design... the idea that our world is so complex, that it exhibits the qualities of having been designed rather than evolved via chaos.

The ultimate argument against that, made by Hawking is that the very nature of existence itself is that at some point there had to be SOMETHING that originated from nothing... furthermore complexity had to have been created from nothing, out of chaos. Even if you subscribe to an idea of a creator... who created that creator? Was the creator emergent from nothing? If so is that being as complex as our world? If so... why assume that being was created from nothing, and not our complex universe?

 

[Tristicus]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2102500&highlight=hawking


Hawking is losing it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/02/hawking.god.universe/index.html

Unfortunately I agree with him...

The most common argument to prove the existence of god is the argument of design... the idea that our world is so complex, that it exhibits the qualities of having been designed rather than evolved via chaos.

The ultimate argument against that, made by Hawking is that the very nature of existence itself is that at some point there had to be SOMETHING that originated from nothing... furthermore complexity had to have been created from nothing, out of chaos. Even if you subscribe to an idea of a creator... who created that creator? Was the creator emergent from nothing? If so is that being as complex as our world? If so... why assume that being was created from nothing, and not our complex universe?

The real answer is that no one really knows anything. Oh we have some pretty good theories of what happened, but "why"? Even Hawking can't answer that.

 

[MJinZ]

Isn't this is an epic repost............

 

[Doboji]

Isn't this is an epic repost............

Yeah I didnt check OT... figured it was P&N

 

[Infohawk]

But some people believe in god. Therefore we should all kowtow to their superstitions, no matter how ludicrous they are.

And remember, if you generalize about them based on their collective delusions, you are a bigot.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But some people believe in god. Therefore we should all kowtow to their superstitions, no matter how ludicrous they are.

And remember, if you generalize about them based on their collective delusions, you are a bigot.

I could generalize about people who are "lesser" intellects than myself. Would I be a bigot?

 

[Uhtrinity]

I found this more humorous from CNN:

Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe
210,135,905,774,378 people shared this.

 

[Zebo]

If I looked like him I'd say the same thing.

 

[Harvey]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/02/hawking.god.universe/index.html

There is no god... says Hawking

Actually, he didn't say that. He said that a God is not necessary to explain the creation and existence of the universe. From the story at your link:

Stephen Hawking: God did not create Universe

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

LONDON, England (CNN) -- God did not create the universe, world-famous physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book that aims to banish a divine creator from physics.

Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the excerpt.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper [fuse] and set the universe going," he writes.
.
.
(continues)

Unfortunately I agree with him...

Glad to say I agree with him... and you. And Mark Twain came to that conclusion a long time ago, albeit a bit more poetically, when he said:

God created man in his image, and man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment.

:thumbsup:

 

[ShawnD1]

Who the hell cares? Seriously. Do people sit around on their unemployed asses all day and ponder religious issues?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Wait Harvey, you know you must launch into a diatribe when discussing something with religious overtones. I mean you didn't insult a single person

Personally I have no idea why anything exists. Perhaps there is a superintelligent entity behind everything or there is not. Objectively I cannot ascertain that, and therefore I must be agnostic about the whole business. I do wonder about statements like

God did not create the universe, world-famous physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book that aims to banish a divine creator from physics.

Well, no. Hawking may write a book explaining his point of view, but "banishing" isn't necessary. There is no "god" variable and Hawking knows this. The creation is still largely philosophical. Of course there are those who argue for an immediate Creation (large C), however that hasn't been part of physics for many a decade. I'll just have to wait and see what Hawking writes rather than hyperbole from the news.

I do wonder what Hawking is going on about here:

Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing,"

I don't see it. He may be correct, and I admit I'm not an equal in his field, however current theories require a quantum theory of gravity to grasp what happened at the beginning. Unless Hawking is sitting on one I don't see how he can make such a statement. If someone knows, I'd be glad to be educated

Of course we don't know context or even if he was quoted correctly given the dismal interpretation of what was written by the author. It was a really bad article.

 

[Harvey]

Wait Harvey, you know you must launch into a diatribe when discussing something with religious overtones. I mean you didn't insult a single person

AH HA! I thought that word was diet tribe and that it referred to a minyan* at Weight Watchers. :whiste:

* In Jewish tradition, a minyan refers to the requirement for a minimum of ten male Jewish adults (13 years old and above) to conduct certain religious obligations such as a public prayer service.

Those who say they actually read what Hawking said and still claim that this article says he said there is no god may want to ask their deity why she made them reading challenged.

 

[Jaskalas]

To each answer comes the question "why?". It is an endless loop for origin. It is far beyond our understanding, Hawking included.

 

[CycloWizard]

Hawking is simply speculating outside the realm of his expertise. It has long been his way to attempt to prove (or, at least, prove the feasibility of) a hypothesis of spontaneous creation, which is not the way science works. His colleagues at Cambridge state as much in the OP's article. Physicists from around the world have been decrying his efforts to answer a fundamentally philosophical question by attempting to confuse science and philosophy, but the media eats it up and keeps throwing his name out there. Sure, he's made some interesting contributions to theoretical physics, but he wouldn't even make the list of the top 10 most important physicists in the last 25 years, and this crusade is exactly why. He's spent his life trying to answer a philosophical question with science.

As for those of you who disagree that this is a fundamentally philosophical question, that was addressed previously in this thread.

 

[drifter106]

In the end, its all about free will and choice. Each individual has those characteristics within themselves to believe as they see fit. If this comes down to whether there is or isn't a "God" then those who take the latter must also believe that the so called "Satan" doesn't exist. Looking at history from a species standpoint, there is much to be said to support the "idea" that their is a God and a Satan. Intervention and miracles within themselves speak volumes for their authenticity. I am not here to try and convince for many have already made a choice...just as I have.

 

[jpeyton]

There is no god... says Hawking

Says Hawking and every other person who stopped believing in fairy tales.

 

[jpeyton]

To each answer comes the question "why?". It is an endless loop for origin. It is far beyond our understanding, Hawking included.

But scientists don't pretend to know the answer to every "why". Religious scholars do.

 

[WHAMPOM]

HUM!! If there was any intelligent design in this universe, it wouldn't resemble a Rube Goldberg machine so much. Living organisms and quantum mechanics are so wonky.

 

[LunarRay]

IF God exists and created the universe and people kind... I often wondered why he would sequester us on this remote rock on the edge of some obscure Galaxy.
I don't see any compelling reason to assign life forms on earth to God's grand design but, rather, the consequence of the initial event... God being beyond or outside the universe conjuring up his next event in some other plane of existence tossed a few pebbles into this one and into some Thermate and blam... the big bang! That God and probably this universe has no reality called 'Time' he'd not need to wait out the events to see what he created... he'd know as being an observer of our future.
Science cannot affirm a miracle and to couple God with Science is counter intuitive, it seems to me... ergo, God is Omnipotent, omniscience and all that stuff and capable of all that his existence will provide...
Hawking can theorize to his heart's content but he can't get beyond what he's capable of and that is the rub... none of us can... We can't know what we don't know... With the exception, perhaps, of Moonbeam...

 

[pcgeek11]

Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.

This is Bull Shit, how can gravity interact with nothing ... ?

 

[pcgeek11]

IF God exists and created the universe and people kind... I often wondered why he would sequester us on this remote rock on the edge of some obscure Galaxy.
I don't see any compelling reason to assign life forms on earth to God's grand design but, rather, the consequence of the initial event... God being beyond or outside the universe conjuring up his next event in some other plane of existence tossed a few pebbles into this one and into some Thermate and blam... the big bang! That God and probably this universe has no reality called 'Time' he'd not need to wait out the events to see what he created... he'd know as being an observer of our future.
Science cannot affirm a miracle and to couple God with Science is counter intuitive, it seems to me... ergo, God is Omnipotent, omniscience and all that stuff and capable of all that his existence will provide...
Hawking can theorize to his heart's content but he can't get beyond what he's capable of and that is the rub... none of us can... We can't know what we don't know... With the exception, perhaps, of Moonbeam...

I like your Post. Esp this part:

We can't know what we don't know... With the exception, perhaps, of Moonbeam...

 

[WHAMPOM]

"Wave" said the particle, "there goes nothing!"

 

[LunarRay]

This is Bull Shit, how can gravity interact with nothing ... ?

I often wondered how gravity could affect a photon.... a something with no mass... considering the formula... you'd need a bit of that mass to bend... but yet it bends... the light that is... Amazing stuff that...

I did read the bit about the 'How' it happens... but still... I like the old mass * mass / distance squared bit...

 

[pcgeek11]

I often wondered how gravity could affect a photon.... a something with no mass... considering the formula... you'd need a bit of that mass to bend... but yet it bends... the light that is... Amazing stuff that...

I did read the bit about the 'How' it happens... but still... I like the old mass * mass / distance squared bit...

I think it is better to say it doesn't have mass that is measurable by our capabilities. Also a photon is something.

Like you stated in your post; we don't know and we can prove it.