There is no Free Market

[bfdd]

so stop fucking blaming the free market and free market principles for failures of the economy. someone is always dicking the fuck around.

 

[momeNt]

Many people will point to deregulation as the problem and that the free market doesn't work. Free market principles assume a free market money, not a government monopolized money and also a central bank manipulating that money. So it sadly nullifies any argument that points to a "free market" policy as failing our economy!

 

[Infohawk]

"There are no completely planned economies, someone is always trying to buy and sell on the black market. So stop blaming planned economies." That's pretty much just as dumb a statement as you made.

Most economies are mixed, fine. It's still useful to talk about free market policies.

 

[momeNt]

Problem is, when people talk about planned economies and blame them, they get labeled as crazies here.

 

[ProfJohn]

Our problem is that our government is really good at destroying jobs and wealth and not so good at creating them.

So when things get out of balance like they are now the government does more harm than good.

 

[Jhhnn]

Our problem is that our government is really good at destroying jobs and wealth and not so good at creating them.

So when things get out of balance like they are now the government does more harm than good.

Yeh- feeding the nation's children & keeping roofs over their heads is utterly evil, along with all the other stuff that the govt does in pursuit of the common good.

 

[Schadenfroh]

You need regulation to ensure a "free" market. The minute a monopoly is formed or a foreign competitor that receives unfair subsidies enters a market, it is no longer free. Free from government regulation will soon mean lack of competition, thus a monopoly will remove any remnants of "freedom" from trade.

But, like I have said in the past, the government should not operate or own companies as you do not want a "company" regulating itself, one almost guarantees bias in "regulation" in such a situation.

 

[momeNt]

Yeh- feeding the nation's children & keeping roofs over their heads is utterly evil, along with all the other stuff that the govt does in pursuit of the common good.

It was the distorted market that redistributed all the wealth up at the top. The federal reserve, monetizing trade deficits, are all ways that have distorted our economy that have made our upper class extremely wealthy, and our middle and lower class outsourced.

Government trying to make up for those wrongs while still continuing to commit the errors in monetary and fiscal policies that make these imbalances possible is not the answer, the elimination of these policies that destroy our economy and make our low skilled labor completely unprofitable is what needs to be stopped.

And before you bring up the gilded age exploitation that went on just remember that we don't have an Ellis Island and a Potato famine in Ireland to bring over an enormous amount of labor to cause an oversupply of labor. Seems like that is your only defense of anything remotely free market. See China - Industry comes in with 1 billion people in a country = very low wage and exploitation.

 

[Jhhnn]

It was the distorted market that redistributed all the wealth up at the top. The federal reserve, monetizing trade deficits, are all ways that have distorted our economy that have made our upper class extremely wealthy, and our middle and lower class outsourced.

Government trying to make up for those wrongs while still continuing to commit the errors in monetary and fiscal policies that make these imbalances possible is not the answer, the elimination of these policies that destroy our economy and make our low skilled labor completely unprofitable is what needs to be stopped.

And before you bring up the gilded age exploitation that went on just remember that we don't have an Ellis Island and a Potato famine in Ireland to bring over an enormous amount of labor to cause an oversupply of labor. Seems like that is your only defense of anything remotely free market. See China - Industry comes in with 1 billion people in a country = very low wage and exploitation.

The potato famine predates the gilded age by 50 years.

We already have an oversupply of labor- check the stats. We also have somewhere north of 10M undocumented workers in this country. And we have the greatest inequality of wealth & income since the last time the economy crashed, in 1929.

 

[momeNt]

You trying to say irish people didn't have babies?

Also yes, we probably need to let the economy really crash instead of trying to superglue a house of cards in a hurricane.

 

[bfdd]

"There are no completely planned economies, someone is always trying to buy and sell on the black market. So stop blaming planned economies." That's pretty much just as dumb a statement as you made.

Most economies are mixed, fine. It's still useful to talk about free market policies.

a planned economy creates a black market.... one could not exist without it duh?

 

[nonlnear]

a planned economy creates a black market.... one could not exist without it duh?

In a centrally planned economy the black market is often largely planned by the very planners who claim to oppose it. They tend to enrich themselves on both sides of the law.

 

[LegendKiller]

Good, hope we never have a true "free market", that would suck.

 

[First]

Our problem is that our government is really good at destroying jobs and wealth and not so good at creating them.

So when things get out of balance like they are now the government does more harm than good.

Username: ProfJohn
Location: RNC National Headquarters

lmao. Troll finally admits he's a paid shill. When'd this happen PJ?

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Our problem is that our government is really good at destroying jobs and wealth and not so good at creating them.

So when things get out of balance like they are now the government does more harm than good.

Yeah damn the government for creating credit default swaps, fake balance sheets, pseudocientific medicine, and child labor.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I don't know why everyone is obsessed with the issue of more vs less regulation. The issue is having GOOD regulation that maximizes economic efficiency and social welfare.

 

[theeedude]

so stop fucking blaming the free market and free market principles for failures of the economy. someone is always dicking the fuck around.

You sound like one of those bitter Communists who thinks that USSR failed not because Communism is flawed but because they never actually implemented it right.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I don't know why everyone is obsessed with the issue of more vs less regulation. The issue is having GOOD regulation that maximizes economic efficiency and social welfare.

This indeed.
And i also agree with schadefroh that a government should not own companies. But as i have noticed with every day experience is that the government can start to act as a bully because it is the government that contracts companies. And that is another serious underestimated concern that can only be dealt with by use of proper regulation. Not only regulation for contracted companies, but also regulation about the duty the government must perform in order to maximize the efficiency of the contracted companies without having those companies in a strangle hold. A true gentlemen agreement but put on paper as a contract.

I can not go into full details for obvious reasons but for example, when there is a clause in a contract that allows a government to suspend payment to the company for delivered services for any reason the government official sees fit. Companies can get in serious financial problems. For example loans must be requested at banks to solve financial issues (Such as paying suppliers of parts) until the government official is satisfied and enables payment again for services already delivered although minor flaws( not life threatening but experimental phase projects to iron out flaws) have been found in those services. And i can safely say that those flaws where able to happen because that same government department to company contract has no clarity about how to cope with certain situations.

Important decisions must always be made in a democratic manner by means of democratic debate and negotiation between government officials and contracted companies. If a single person can make decisions that can put companies out of business then this is detriment for the economy in general. And it seems all to often that government officials rather enjoy their power and control over others also known as corruptive behavior. The solution is to spread the power over multiple officials.

If there is no proper way of executing a service from ground up, then first their must be negotiated how to implement features and how to set up a test course. By no means, the public in general must end up paying the bill by means of bad services or by means of taxes spend wrongly. Efficiency has always been the keyword. And especially a moloch such as a government looses efficiency over time

Intermezzo :
This can also be seen when companies get to big to function and becoming to slow and unable to respond to developments in technologies and there out forthcoming possible new markets.
End intermezzo :

This all has been recognized before by many people in the business. But these business people have the tendency to fully disintegrate the government departments what again results in loss of efficiency by means of the public paying the bill by bad quality services or by taxes spend wrongly.
For example because a single government service is now spread over several contracted companies, there is more administration, there is more miscommunication and there is less profit because the same amount of money payed by the responsible government department has now to be divided over multiple companies each with their own ceo who desire bonuses and shareholders who desire short term profit results. Also this will result in less vital maintenance to vital public services which again cause delays, for example people end up coming late at work, more traffic jams because people prefer to stay in traffic jams because they feel they cannot trust the public transport. It is a vicious circle. And it is not just happening in the US it is happening in any western country. Also the one where i am.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

so stop fucking blaming the free market and free market principles for failures of the economy. someone is always dicking the fuck around.

I don't think anyone's claiming that we have a purely laissez-faire capitalist economy. Rather, people are pointing to certain free market elements (like unregulated free trade, foreign work visas, or mass immigration) and then blaming those elements for aspects of our economic malaise.

Don't use the claim that we don't have real laissez-faire capitalism to conveniently put your head in the sand.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't know why everyone is obsessed with the issue of more vs less regulation. The issue is having GOOD regulation that maximizes economic efficiency and social welfare.

:thumbsup:

A small amount of good regulation would be ideal. Instead we have a large amount of useless and sometimes bad regulation. And instead of fixing what we have they just keep piling more on top.

We're fucked.

 

[fskimospy]

A truly free market would be an unmitigated national and human catastrophe. It will never exist, and if it somehow did, god help us all.

 

[Ausm]

so stop fucking blaming the free market and free market principles for failures of the economy. someone is always dicking the fuck around.

And you claim my threads are bad?? LMFAO

 

[Ausm]

I don't know why everyone is obsessed with the issue of more vs less regulation. The issue is having GOOD regulation that maximizes economic efficiency and social welfare.

OK that is an awesome idea but I doubt it would occur in my lifetime with the inept Congress we have in the US.

 

[momeNt]

A truly free market would be an unmitigated national and human catastrophe. It will never exist, and if it somehow did, god help us all.

Gee that was insightful.

 

[First]

Gee that was insightful.

It's true.